G-Major 16

[shyuhe]

I only use HC for gauntlet games. Since I don't play him normally, it's kind of refreshing to use him for gauntlets. That being said, I may actually play one of the Egyptians for this gauntlet. I think SE will produce bigger cities = higher score. In theory of course. I'll have to try and find out.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I don't think that the rules will change now that the gauntlet has started.

Does the AI definitely start with archery on Monarch? And archers not warriors in the capital?

Surely Persian Immortals rather than Egypt would be better for you shyuhe since they get a bonus vs. archers. I guess you want the Pyramids though...

 

[WastinTime]

do maps with more land tiles give higher final scores? If so, what map type has the most land squares?

More land squares do NOT make for higher scores. It's % land. So if you dominate with 700 out of 1000 land squares, you get the same score as someone who dominates with 350 squares on a 500 tile map. The trick would be to grab as much land as possible in the last turn to get near 100 %.

 

[WastinTime]

And I expect to be flamed for this, but if HC is so overpowered I personally think that having to have HC as opponent would add more diversity and fun to this gauntlet.

Yea, unfortunately they don't want to exclude HC all the time and they wasted that requirement in the Island gauntlet on quick speed where no one was going to use HC anyway. This really could use the anti-HC feature.

 

[shyuhe]

More land squares do NOT make for higher scores. It's % land. So if you dominate with 700 out of 1000 land squares, you get the same score as someone who dominates with 350 squares on a 500 tile map. The trick would be to grab as much land as possible in the last turn to get near 100 %.

That's what I thought. So wouldn't the best (easiest) map type be a pangaea high seas? Then you can get into war against a big AI and siege their cities with settlers then raze and settle on the last turn. Easy on paper, hard in practice I'm thinking warlords for this game with mass vassalization on the last turn.

 

[Mad Professor]

And I expect to be flamed for this, but if HC is so overpowered I personally think that having to have HC as opponent would add more diversity and fun to this gauntlet.

Flamed? No... We're all too nice to do something like that

HC in the hands of an AI is nowhere near as dangerous as in the hands of a human player. Having him as an opponent is no big deal unless a human is in the driver's seat!

 

[Dracandross]

For land most points you score on any map that you can conquer totally.

For population any map with water squares are bad as you can't have easily and fast population on those. It is better to have lots of no food squares that do not increase pop limit (on area where you are not going to settle) and lots of food where you settle. As pop score is based on map's basefood amount and plains have 1 base that can be upped to 3 with farm+biology. Only better is nofood hill with mill but that doesn't grow much as base is 0 and improved 1.

For wonders earlier eras work better as you can build them. And for techs earlier starts are also best

For time domination is best way for scoring. And for that it is Inca&Mara.

So I'd suggest that winner is going to be great plains middle/eastern start with warlords inca&marathon domination win around 1000 ad with lots of farms and biology.

-Dracandross

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I wonder whether a later (1000AD) domination victory with biology and a bit of score milking would be better than a fast (1000BC) domination or conquest victory with very little in the way of research and large population cities?

 

[WastinTime]

Flamed? No... We're all too nice to do something like that

HC in the hands of an AI is nowhere near as dangerous as in the hands of a human player. Having him as an opponent is no big deal unless a human is in the driver's seat!

Right, but making him the opponent means you can't play HC.

 

[Alan_of_Dale]

Right, but making him the opponent means you can't play HC.

Right. Totally agree it should have had HC as an opponent to lead to more variety. Now it's just an Inca marathon game. I like Inca, but marathon is boring to me. Also, will take forever and strain even my Athlon 3400+ due to large map. Good thing I upgraded my nVidia FX5200 graphics card to a 7600GS in my Shuttle XPC. Made the game seriously more quick to play on my 1600x1200 pixel LCD (which looks great but probably leads to game slowdown, but much less now). Was afraid to go any further so as not to blow up the power supply.

 

[FiveAces]

This is a dumb question, but since the victory condition is simply "score", does that mean every Large Monarch game is eligible for submission - even ones that you don't win? You do get a score for those, so you could argue you've fulfilled the "victory" condition with a loser... I don't think that's the intent though.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I think it has to be a win of any sort

Which is good news for me anyway if I can't get a decent score I should at least be able to manage a win at some point over the next month (fingers crossed, although I only have 2 wins at monarch so far).

I was put off after my first attempt, 2 of my full strength Quecha's were eaten by lions (one after being attacked over a river!) and I looked at the victory conditions screen and it said "1200 turns left" OMG, never played marathon before, I think I know why now. Plus my nearest neighbour was Saladin and he had built his capital on a hill.

However I did have a dream about my Quecha ruling the early world last night so I think it is a message from God telling me that this gauntlet is on. Halleluja!

EDIT: I guess I should really turn barbs off too. I'm not sure about picking Great Plains either I think I may go Pangaea instead, and hope for a plains hill with marble start.

 

[FiveAces]

I think it has to be a win of any sort

Yeah I'm pretty sure, I was really playing devil's advocate since the Score category is an HoF creation and not a game recognized victory condition.

1200 turns is a lot. I've never tried Marathon either. Just for kicks and giggles I'm going to try Ice Age, only develop the capitals, isolate the last civ and spam settlers, hoping that the lack of food on the map gives me a big pop score, based on the earlier posts that indicate that's how it's calculated. With luck it won't take too long, whatever the score. We'll see.

 

[Miraculix]

and I looked at the victory conditions screen and it said "1200 turns left" OMG, never played marathon before, I think I know why now.

But your maximum score is achieved much earlier than turn 1200.

 

[IglooDame]

As a "might win on Prince, usually win on Noble" player I'm going to take a shot at this Monarch one hoping for a victory of any sort, rather than a Gauntlet-winning score.

Thus, my usual praet-wielding Caesar on a high-water pangea for early warmongering dominance.

 

[KMadCandy]

I guess this will be my attempt for the time victory slot anyway. Has anyone got any tips? Never played a large map but I think I can probably give this a go since Monarch is about my current skill level.

i know you changed your mind by now and aren't going for time on this gauntlet, but i didn't think of this until today. if you were looking for tips on a time victory, and just want to get any old time victory for you QM slot, i asked the same question early this year and here's the very helpful advice i got.

i reread that thread today and i sound a little hyper in it! it was a really fun game, i guess i got a little overexcited.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

KMadCandy, hyperactive in a thread? Who would have believed it.

I'm glad it's not a time victory because it is a large map anyway.

So I'm trying a new kind of boredom known as "marathon speed". I'm doing OK with my first proper Quecha rush strategy, top of the score table, 1000BC, 4 civs dead already, but my economy has crashed even though I only kept capitals (and 1 nice barb city). Not got alphabet yet so I can't judge how I am doing tech wise, still 8 turns to go for my first library. 6 turns to build a road? 12 turns to build a cottage? 12 turns to build a mine? They have got to be having a laugh.

 

[Andrei_V]

I'm doing OK with my first proper Quecha rush strategy, top of the score table, 1000BC, 4 civs dead already, but my economy has crashed even though I only kept capitals (and 1 nice barb city).

You're Financial. Research Fishing as your first tech, then Mining, The Wheel, Pottery, and BW. With Fishing you can work 3C water tiles, especially in the coastal cities. Some of them may have fishing boats already built by AI for you, good to build Workers and Settlers.

Settlers you need if you have some Gold/Gems nearby. Build a city next to Gold, build the mine, and start working it immediately (the city won't grow, but will generate commerce.) This will help you to stay afloat until you build enough cottages and research CoL (via Polytheism -> Priesthood), which is your next priority. You can grab Alphabet or CoL with Oracle.

The next thing after CoL is Math and Currency, so you can build wealth in some of your cities. Then whatever else, Literature for GL, Construction for cats, CS for Bureaucracy, etc.

6 turns to build a road? 12 turns to build a cottage? 12 turns to build a mine? They have got to be having a laugh.

The good news is that the same is applicable to the AIs as well. They'll be extremely slow in development. After you built some cottages, you can start building Axes, and crush another rival civ or two. Then throw in cats, then Macemen, etc. This time you can keep most of the cities, and start milking the score.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Meh, too busy building Quechua to build the Oracle! I did build stonehedge though, because my unit maintenance was getting me down.

I've not even got bronze working yet. That's probably a very bad idea since I can't whip or chop yet. Went for alphabet instead after writing. I'm only facing archers at the moment but the AI likes its cities on hills iin Warlords. Maybe I should settle next to some gold, I dunno. I'll build a settler when I stagnate my capital running scientists I think. I have chariots available for axe attack anyway.

I've got some cottages up anyway, next to rivers, and finishing off Persia made my only coastal city happy enough to work some seafood and commerce tiles. Hopefully when my library builds are done the economy will get a bit better. Losing money at 30% tech (making money with 20%).

Tech plan is finish alphabet, then bronze working if no-one will trade for it. I figure I can extort some techs once I have alpha and build research instead of units.

EDIT: I think I should have picked less opponents than the maximum allowed (14) if I want a really big score, because domination is 51% on large maps. I tried the minimum number of civs on my test run (which ran out of steam testing uber-Quechua civ-killing skills).

 

[Andrei_V]

Meh, too busy building Quechua to build the Oracle!

Well, that's heavy. So, all 5 or 6 of your cities are busy building Quechua? No wonder your economy is ruined.

2 cities building Quechua are more than enough, the rest can build anything. Oracle, Pyramids, GLib, whatever.

Try Terra map, 10 opponents. In most cases, you won't hit Domination, so just kill them all for Conquest. Leave one last city for a while, milk the score, then capture it.

In the beginning, move your initial Settler close to an AI capital, find a place on Hills/Plains, with a 3H tile nearby. Then build like 3 Quechua, and capture the AI capital. Most likely it will be guarded by a single Archer.

Then build more Quechua in both cities, go capture another one. And so on.