I see what you mean...fast workers vs supertanks. Ok, you convince me. If I have time, I will try the Celts on my next run. Do you also build a Dun to get free Guerrilla I promotion for your supertank too?
G-Major 21
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
I see what you mean...fast workers vs supertanks. Ok, you convince me. If I have time, I will try the Celts on my next run. Do you also build a Dun to get free Guerrilla I promotion for your supertank too?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Thanks Moonsinger (pity you've changed avatar).
Not only one of the best players, but also a teacher.
Thanks again, even if i find difficult to apply.
I managed to have the Pentagon and 5 cities in good positions, but not so early.
Not only one of the best players, but also a teacher.
Thanks again, even if i find difficult to apply.
I managed to have the Pentagon and 5 cities in good positions, but not so early.
Why do you find it difficult to apply? Which area do you have trouble with? To speed up the Pentagon, just check your capital in every turn; if your capital can grow within 1 turn, you can increase/decrease the number of Engineers as needed. I usually got the Great Engineer immediately after I finish the Coal Plant. With good starting location, you would get a second Great Engineer around 1710 AD for rushing the Iron Work. That would give you two great cities that can produce at least 84 hammers per turn. You just need to chop forests for awhile for the other three cities until you can rush the Academy. Also, the real reason for declaring war to all of them no later than 1710 AD is because you need them to talk by 1760 AD.
You are right! I can't build Dun after Rifling. I just tried another one with the Celts. So far, they were too slow for me (I'm spoiled by the fast workers). It took me twice as long to chop/mine and build tracks. If I'm lucky, I probably will win by 1830 AD. The Celts is definitely better than the Germans for this Gauntlet.
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Unless one's leader has the Spiritual attribute, the capital build can be delayed one turn while changing civics. You can move your capital at no additional cost while in anarchy. Thus, the capital can be built in 1580 AD.
Why Mercantilism? Why not State Property for the extra food?
What is the advantage of Serfdom? Railroads can be built on most tiles in 1t. Chops are already 1t. Most improvements are 2t. Slavery (build Factory fast) and Caste System (pop borders with Artists) both have some advantages in this gauntlet.
Thanks for detailing your strategy for this gauntlet. Sounds quite fool-proof.
Sun Tzu Wu
Agree if you are going to move, you can make the initial civics selection at no penalty. However, 1) everyone probably is going to play a map that they can settle the capital in the first turn on and 2) you need to change at least once more before you get your tanks out. Therefore spiritual is min 2 final turns saved.
Merc allows you to run a GE without sacrificing growth/hammers so you can rush the pentagon for +2 exp before you finish the first tank.
Slavery is not worth it at all. You need to grow to size ~9 asap to get tanks in one turn. You can rush-buy the factory. You can't rush-buy pop. Caste is of minimal use because you will be running at least 40% culture (for happy) and getting the border pops quickly anyway.
Merc allows you to run a GE without sacrificing growth/hammers so you can rush the pentagon for +2 exp before you finish the first tank.
Slavery is not worth it at all. You need to grow to size ~9 asap to get tanks in one turn. You can rush-buy the factory. You can't rush-buy pop. Caste is of minimal use because you will be running at least 40% culture (for happy) and getting the border pops quickly anyway.
Since this is a quick game (less than 40 turns), we can't afford spending time in anarchy; therefore, spiritual trait is the best. Can't afford any delay on founding the capital either. Since we also need to chop forests immediately at turn 1, fast workers is the best.
We need the free specialist to help generating GE for the Pentagon.
IIRC, without Serfdom, building rails on the deserts and flood plains will take 2 turns. If I play again, I will definitely go with the Caste System during the first 5 turns for popping border (since I probably can't build any rails during the first 5 turns). Great idea!
Thanks!I refer cash rush over slavery because I want my cities to get over size 12 as soon as possible.
Not really quite fool-proof yet!
Like you said, it can be improved by using the Caste System at the beginning for popping border, then Serfdom for the rest of the game.
Gosha190
King
Nice major and interesting thread! It's a pity that I have no time to participate.
But I have played couple of games to get my own interpretation game flow. So I can say: all games, finished before 1800AD, were played very strong! Congrats all owners!
But I have played couple of games to get my own interpretation game flow. So I can say: all games, finished before 1800AD, were played very strong! Congrats all owners!
Asoka again, 6 cities this time, but technically 5, as 6th' food was pressed by Christian Holy City. Carved off a turn from my previous result (1765AD now), if managed war-logistic workers more efficiently, would've gained couple more turns - I think, Moonsinger, you were right with 1750AD as a benchmark for this contest.
Also no Iron this whole game, so half effect from early IW. And Liz managed to get Apollo!
As for warfare - on the contrary to Moonsinger's approach, I declare only at the turn of my attack, meanwhile using future enemy roads to hit current enemy fast and even building him railroads for my troops. Therefore I rarely vassalize more than 1-2 and Warlords give me only fast factories and Generals over Vanilla. In the last game I killed the last target Musa (from start to finish) in 3 turns. Nevertheless, vassal states vs non-disturbed AI seem balanced in the game as our approaches give relatively the same date.
Also no Iron this whole game, so half effect from early IW. And Liz managed to get Apollo!
As for warfare - on the contrary to Moonsinger's approach, I declare only at the turn of my attack, meanwhile using future enemy roads to hit current enemy fast and even building him railroads for my troops. Therefore I rarely vassalize more than 1-2 and Warlords give me only fast factories and Generals over Vanilla. In the last game I killed the last target Musa (from start to finish) in 3 turns. Nevertheless, vassal states vs non-disturbed AI seem balanced in the game as our approaches give relatively the same date.
Last attempt for me: 1765 AD, I hope it will be accepted...
This was a weird game; 4 good cities, about 2 others including first captured with moderate tank production. Only 4 with religion. First game where I bought some stuff in the beginning and never switched away from Merc.-might have been important. Furthermore I rushed capital factory quite early and build some 3xp tanks, GE came very late.
Egypt war went well, but I nearly quit when I needed 4 full turns on Gandhi's first city, my 2nd victim. Some 10 tanks sacrificed there. Funny enough, Gandhi offered vassalage with 3/5 cities left, so not too much wasted there. His culture and railroads became quite important during the last two wars...
Hatshi built an early Apollo, and Wang Kong very early Manhattan. Fortunately, Louis was the only one with Uranium, and never managed to research or trade Rocketry
(His 6 tanks were annoying though.)
My tactics for this gauntlet are practically the same as Lexad's.
In addition, I'd say that while vassalizing the first 2-3 is okay, the last 3 enemies must fall in a total of 6 turns. Second front (on 3rd victim) should be established while 2nd war is still continuing. From there work your way in both directions until you meet again for the last one.
It's a pity I play so slowly (7 hours this last game), as I think with a bit more luck and a little better start 1755 would be possible.
P.S.: Never built IW, never built Academy (until last turn
). 2 Generals become Medic3, 2nd GE builds West Point. 3rd GG & GE come too late and practically have no effect.
This was a weird game; 4 good cities, about 2 others including first captured with moderate tank production. Only 4 with religion. First game where I bought some stuff in the beginning and never switched away from Merc.-might have been important. Furthermore I rushed capital factory quite early and build some 3xp tanks, GE came very late.
Egypt war went well, but I nearly quit when I needed 4 full turns on Gandhi's first city, my 2nd victim. Some 10 tanks sacrificed there. Funny enough, Gandhi offered vassalage with 3/5 cities left, so not too much wasted there. His culture and railroads became quite important during the last two wars...
Hatshi built an early Apollo, and Wang Kong very early Manhattan. Fortunately, Louis was the only one with Uranium, and never managed to research or trade Rocketry
(His 6 tanks were annoying though.)My tactics for this gauntlet are practically the same as Lexad's.
In addition, I'd say that while vassalizing the first 2-3 is okay, the last 3 enemies must fall in a total of 6 turns. Second front (on 3rd victim) should be established while 2nd war is still continuing. From there work your way in both directions until you meet again for the last one.
It's a pity I play so slowly (7 hours this last game), as I think with a bit more luck and a little better start 1755 would be possible.
P.S.: Never built IW, never built Academy (until last turn
). 2 Generals become Medic3, 2nd GE builds West Point. 3rd GG & GE come too late and practically have no effect.I think it is crucial that all enemies, and especially the last 2-3, don't build more than four cities. This is mainly luck (and speed), although picking imperialistic AIs would probably a bad idea. If your last victim got 5 or even 6 cities by the time you get to him, there's barely a chance to finish him off in 2 or 3 turns.
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Asoka's Organized trait also builds Factories with 2X (+100%) bonus. I'm not sure Gandhi's Philosophical trait is needed to get an early GE. So, Asoka seems to be the best leader (in the elite group of leaders with Fast Workers
)Mercantilism may be fine in the early game, but once most cities have several work shops and/or water mills, State Property's +1F per work shop and water mill really adds up (easily pays for a real Engineer and more). Plus no maintenance due to distance from capital is hard to beat (when keeping most cities rather than razing them).
Popping borders early via the Culture slider may work better than Mercantilism + Caste System + Artist. However, Culture slider culture is Civ-wide (and costs us Gold), whereas Artists can be added only to Cities that need them. I still think Caste System is a good civic in the first few turns.
Moonsinger, thanks for further explaining the fine points of your strategy for this gauntlet.
Sun Tzu Wu
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Thanks all, especially Moonsinger for the suggestions.
I managed to submit a pitiful (compared to the top players) 1940 AD victory for some 27K points.
I followed your suggestions in the beginning, and even settled a 6th city for an early IW. But i have missed something after that, anyway, i beaten deity in a non-cheesy game, and i'm happy with this.
Lot of thing s to improve, i suppose.
I managed to submit a pitiful (compared to the top players) 1940 AD victory for some 27K points.
I followed your suggestions in the beginning, and even settled a 6th city for an early IW. But i have missed something after that, anyway, i beaten deity in a non-cheesy game, and i'm happy with this.
Lot of thing s to improve, i suppose.
DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
Add my thanks also. I managed to finally get a pre1900AD date. Finished 1880AD missed my goal of 1850. First 3 AIs (Gandhi, Mansa & Cathy) went down easy, I took 3 cities they became vassals, but my last 3 victims would not give in. I had to take all 7 of Hatty's cities and all 7 of Louis' cities; while Liz finally agree to become a vassal after I took 6 of her 7 cities.
G-Major 21 is now closed. There was a three way tie for fastest finish with a date of 1765 AD. They are karmina, Lexad, and Moonsinger. Shyuhe took fourth place with the second fastest date of 1790 AD and Jimmy Thunder took fifth with the third fastest date of 1795 AD.
Congrats to all, it was fun competing with you in the Majors again!
Congrats to all! It was a fun gauntlet and I have learned a lot. When I first started out, I thought that 1825 something was very fast. Then I saw 1790, 1775, then 1765 and there are still room for improvement.
It was a fun gauntlet and I have learned a lot. When I first started out, I thought that 1825 something was very fast. Then I saw 1790, 1775, then 1765 and there are still room for improvement.Hehe, thanks to everyone for a great gauntlet!
I rarely had more than 1 or 2 workshops/city, so Mercantilism was probably better than State Property. It had a couple of advantages: Early GEs, less pop at same production, much less costs compared to Enviro. All that enabled me to use every single unit for offense (just one marine remained in Delhi), while running high culture - in fact 100% for a lot of turns in the end. This probably was the main reason for my 32k compared to Lexads 28k and Moonsingers 26k.
As for choice of leaders, I still think Gandhi & Asoka are on par. Gandhi can give you very early Pentagon & West Point, and in addition even a 3rd GE in time to be effective. Btw I used only Engineer Specialist all the way, culture slider works perfectly for border expansion.
I rarely had more than 1 or 2 workshops/city, so Mercantilism was probably better than State Property. It had a couple of advantages: Early GEs, less pop at same production, much less costs compared to Enviro. All that enabled me to use every single unit for offense (just one marine remained in Delhi), while running high culture - in fact 100% for a lot of turns in the end. This probably was the main reason for my 32k compared to Lexads 28k and Moonsingers 26k.
As for choice of leaders, I still think Gandhi & Asoka are on par. Gandhi can give you very early Pentagon & West Point, and in addition even a 3rd GE in time to be effective. Btw I used only Engineer Specialist all the way, culture slider works perfectly for border expansion.
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