G-Major 29

[Pious_Pete]

Since I don't buildrushbuy anything, unless I am Spiritual instead of Financial (which delays Liberalism date) I have to build all my cities very soon in order to choose and appropriate civwide time to revolt from slavery to CS.

This implies that you do a fair amount of whipping whilst in slavery. Is this correct?

 

[FiveAces]

Well I´m convinced about making the GP farm one of the legendary cities; but what is the advantage of not building cathedrals in it?

It's related to your other question about how to get so many GA's - except when you're building granary, library, NE, and maybe temples, you only work food tiles and run artists. So you have no hammers for cathedrals. (Rush-buy strategy is different of course - if you have enough cities and money there is no reason not to buy cathdrals in the GP farm if that is a legendary city).

I suggest you follow Harbourboy's advice and read the Cultural Deity by 1000AD thread to get an idea of what you need to do to have a fast non-pyramids game.

 

[Pious_Pete]

As for money for 100%culture, appart from selling all your happy resources, do you sell your techs for cash when you reach Liberalism?

I will be from now on

BTW. I normally tech on beyond liberalism. I definitely go for Nationalism (for Hermitage) (even if I don´t get it for free for being the first to Liberalism).

I also normally tech to Printing Press.

Sometimes I even tech to Economy (but I guess this is going too far).

I tend to be still trading for requisite techs once I get beyond liberalism rather than for gold.

But I will try stopping at Liberalism/Nationalism and trading for cash instead.

 

[Pious_Pete]

I suggest you follow Harbourboy's advice and read the Cultural Deity by 1000AD thread to get an idea of what you need to do to have a fast non-pyramids game.

This sounds the ticket! Where is this discussion thread? (I´m not that lazy - I did do a search; but all I keep finding is Godonuts guide).

 

[AnitaGaribaldi]

I was thinking if it is not so easy to make the GP farm one of the legendary cities. You need 13 GA to take one city from 0 to 50000 culture, the farm will have some culture.
Say it has 14 base culture from buildings, hire 7 artists without Sistine Chapel.
culture: 14+7*4= 42 base culture plus free speech 84 culture/turn
gpp : 7*3+1=22 philo+national epic = 66 gpp/turn
10000 culture = 120 turns = 7890 gpp
6700 gpp = 11 GA
7900 gpp = 12 GA
You will need 10-11 GA just for the farm and it's a good farm. In other hand, It's hard to get 4 good cities on deity. I was think of trying a game as Alex, the philo trait helps, the agressive helps getting one more capital and the UB is nice. Not sure if I can pull this off, though.

 

[Pious_Pete]

A specific question I have is what to do when I get Alphabet. Usually I beat all the AI to this. They usually have plenty of techs to trade, but I have nothing to offer other than alphabet. Should I trade alphabet, or should I research to drama, say, and trade that?

I usually trade away alphabet since all the other techs on offer are just too tempting; but this does seem to mean that the AIs then trade away techs with each other with a vengence and I struggle to keep up.

There´s been lots of feedback on my other questions (thanks everyone); but no one seems to have picked up on this question. Any views?

 

[Pious_Pete]

I was thinking if it is not so easy to make the GP farm one of the legendary cities. You need 13 GA to take one city from 0 to 50000 culture, the farm will have some culture.
Say it has 14 base culture from buildings, hire 7 artists without Sistine Chapel.
culture: 14+7*4= 42 base culture plus free speech 84 culture/turn
gpp : 7*3+1=22 philo+national epic = 66 gpp/turn
10000 culture = 120 turns = 7890 gpp
6700 gpp = 11 GA
7900 gpp = 12 GA
You will need 10-11 GA just for the farm and it's a good farm. In other hand, It's hard to get 4 good cities on deity. I was think of trying a game as Alex, the philo trait helps, the agressive helps getting one more capital and the UB is nice. Not sure if I can pull this off, though.

That´s an interesting calculation.

This seems to suggest that all the GA will go on the GP farm to get it to legendary. (This means that the other two cities would have to self-generate all their own culture).

If this is the case, surely it has to be better to use the fourth city as a cultural city? Even if it is a bit weak and feeble, surely it ought to be able to self-generate more than the 10000 culture that the GP farm would self generate?

BTW. What sort of a finish date would 120 turns translate into?

 

[FiveAces]

This sounds the ticket! Where is this discussion thread? (I´m not that lazy - I did do a search; but all I keep finding is Godonuts guide).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232250

 

[Harbourboy]

Well I´m convinced about making the GP farm one of the legendary cities; but what is the advantage of not building cathedrals in it?

Because a good GP farm should be working food, not hammers?

 

[bonscott]

Well, Deity is way above my level of play but I tried it anyway. After getting trounced early 5 times (3 of them by barbs with archers right away) I decided to do this but on Noble level (my typical level of play) since I need a cultural win anyway. I just submitted by game that I won, took about a day and a half of play.

Not sure if my strats will work on Deity but they did work at noble. First off I played as Greece (Pericles). My thought here was Creative for the culture and Philo for the 100% GP since you need lots of Artists for culture victory. Also a good UU to help if attacked.

I went straight for a religion and got Hinduism. Also ended up founding Confusionism. Had Egypt (Hatty) and the Holy Romans on my continent. Churchill and Kymer on the other. On my continent between the 3 of us we founded every religion except one of them so I got them all. Lots of cathedrals in my 3 culture cities. I went mostly with wonders that got me artists and had 2 GP cities pumping out artists. I had the tech lead but was a bit weak at first in military. Holy Romans attacked me 3 times but I was able to beat him back and eventually took one city which gave me 6 total. Shut down tech after getting rifles but it still took me until early 1900's to win. But a win I got anyway.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[Pious_Pete]

Well, Deity is way above my level of play but I tried it anyway. After getting trounced early 5 times (3 of them by barbs with archers right away)

If Deity is way above your comfort zone, I´d play with barbs switched off. It´s not cheating...it´s one less thing to worry about!

When you win at Diety, then you can think about playing with barbs on.

I´m playing most of my games at Diety these days... and I´m sure as heck playing with barbs off.

 

[Pious_Pete]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232250

Thanks for this FiveAces.

I´ve read through this once and it is jaw-dropping stuff

All I can say to anyone else reading through this forum to get ideas for G-Major 29: you definitely need to read this link as well.

 

[Pious_Pete]

There´s been lots of feedback on my other questions (thanks everyone); but no one seems to have picked up on this question. Any views?

Of course, having now read the "1000AD Cultural Diety" thread, I can answer this for myself...

... trade alphabet a.s.a.p.

 

[jesusin]

... so a diplomatic charm offensive was in order to avoid a more serious escalation of hostilities.

I have to use similar strategies too

How do you get so many GA?

What are your auxiliary cities doing after building a granary and a couple temples?
Several factors.
- All my aux ciites are secondary GPFarms (+1/+2 each)
- Parthenon (+2)
- Final starvation phase (+1)
- Pacifism asap (+1)

I guess Parthanon would make a signficant difference. (Can you get Parthanon and Pyramids?)

Not in Vanilla.

Also, how many artists do you usually run in you GA farm? On a good day, I get 5. To get more (without irrigating grasslands, which Wastingtime suggests is not worth the candle) you´d need at least 3 food resources in the city, and I must say that I rarely manage to achieve that on diety.

8 (9 with Mercantilism) on the last turns of a good day.
Mid game it's 5. Then I use farmed grasslands till I reach my health limit.
Pigs+Corn+Sugar+some grasslands gives you 6 artists before using the grasslands and it's not so rare a location.
Your building the Pyramids might be delaying your settlers too much to get to the prime sites. I have 4 cities by 1000BC.

Well I´m convinced about making the GP farm one of the legendary cities; but what is the advantage of not building cathedrals in it?

It should be obvious: running artists instead of mines.
In your case, running 100% culture civwide instead of saving money.
In the just 4 cities case: because you want the 2 cathedrals in the best possible cities, and that's always the 2 cottage cities.

 

[jesusin]

This implies that you do a fair amount of whipping whilst in slavery. Is this correct?

Yes, I do.
I love to whip my granaries. Maybe I am too granary loving, what do you think, WastinTime?

I will be from now on

BTW. I normally tech on beyond liberalism. I definitely go for Nationalism (for Hermitage) (even if I don´t get it for free for being the first to Liberalism).

Well done.

I also normally tech to Printing Press.

Sometimes worth it, sometimes not. Aren't you able to trade for it instead?

Sometimes I even tech to Economy (but I guess this is going too far).

Wrong. Please, don't.

I tend to be still trading for requisite techs once I get beyond liberalism rather than for gold.

But I will try stopping at Liberalism/Nationalism and trading for cash instead.

It's not either trading for techs or for money. You can get both. On a lucky day I can trade from Guilds up to Corporation, and get all their money several times on top of it. Getting to Mercantilism (and the money) is usually more than enough.

There´s been lots of feedback on my other questions (thanks everyone); but no one seems to have picked up on this question. Any views?

Sorry, It's easy to miss one between so many! (J/K)
Two views that I know of:
- jesusin's: gift it asap (well, it's more like wait for Maths to gift it around), that way AI advance quicker and you'll get to trade more, you'll get to Liberalism sooner, to Mercant sooner, etc...
- WastinTime's (I hope I'm remembering right): Keep it as long as you can, as a means to guarranty being first to Liberalism, Tao, etc...

 

[jesusin]

How many GAs would this secondary farm pop?

I would have thought that it would get dominated by the first GA farm (which would have NE in it)?

But then, what do I know .

Thank you for asking so good a question. I think I had never really asked/answered this myself.

Let's compare a game in which the 5th city is built with the same game without the 5th city.

Let's imagine that at 1AD we have all 5 artists, we are running CS+Pacif; we get 15GPeople all game long and we win 1300AD. At the end of the game, some 500GPP are left in this city, so they are wasted.

The 5th city adds 5*3*(1+1+1)*75turns==3375GPP.
The last 2 GA have cost 2000+1800GPP. (Of course the 5th city didn't pop precisely this 2 GA, but it is just the same for our purposes).
3375-500wasted == 1.5* 1900 so I conclude that the 5th city gives one and a half additional GA.

Now, I think more or less the cost is Null. Before Liberalism, the beakers the 5th city makes more or less pay for its maintenace. At the end of the game, those 500GPP that are wasted don't need to be gotten by artists, so you hire merchants instead: this more or less pays for all the maintenance post Liberalism.

So in my mind getting a 5th Settler results in 6000c in the Legendary cities for free. Any blunders in my maths?

 

[ssjos]

Just played a second try. Did better this time and finished around 1500 AD.
Tried building Sinistine and Tach Mahal in a non-legendary city and built a 5th city for extra GP farm. This city popped 3 GP in my game I think.

Big mistake on my part though. I manged to set all specialists to merchants in my extra GP farm for a few turns and popped a useless great merchant.


---

Q

What do you guys think of getting 3 cotteged cities (including capital) and having a forth city as worker farm early and GP farm for mid/late, possibly adding a 5th city/sec GP farm about the time you reach liberalism. I might try it out lateron.
Last game my GP farm totally sucked culture wise. I bombed 0 in capital, 1 GA in cottage city and I think 9 in GP farm... Well the farm did suck and a good farm should prolly be able to support more than 8 pop but still.

 

[Mesix]

I think that if you get Sistine Chapel, the GP farms will ultimately become Legendary faster than the cottaged cities. Especially if you have a GP farm with a couple of early wonders. All of the artists produce culture afterall.

 

[ZPV]

I am thinking about a different strategy for this: OCC + PA and play GPFarm for my ally.

I do have a couple of questions, however:
1: Which AIs are good at getting an early cultural victory?
I played a test game with Asoka as my PA, and I couldn't get him to touch the slider or spread his religions around at all.
Will the AI recognise that my city will become Legendary, and so only focus on two culture cities?
If I gift the GAs instead of settling them, will my PA culture bomb them in those two cities, or waste them on golden ages and such?

2: Which AIs are easy to get in an early PA?

3: Which map settings make it easiest to get gold or gems at the start? I am all for using MapFinder, but I don't want to run 7000 regenerations to get a good start.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I am thinking about a different strategy for this: OCC + PA and play GPFarm for my ally.

EDIT: All my comments refer to Vanilla/Warlords OCC + PA, unless qualified as BTS.

It will be extremely hard to get a cultural win via OCC + PA at Deity level.
Getting the PA will require mutual war or DP (Military Tradition), followed
by either Communism or Facism to allow the Permanent Alliance.

A date less than 1800 AD will be extremely difficult via OCC + PA
and the top dates for this gauntlet will likely be < 1300 AD.

1: Which AIs are good at getting an early cultural victory?

The AIs in BTS actually try to win via Cultural Victory, so start there.

My experience with OCC + PA is in Warlords which is similar to Vanilla.
Your PA partner will do nothing to increase culture in his two highest culture
cities, until somewhat close to a cultural win. The situation in BTS should
be much better.

Ramesses II will build many WWs early on. Research the tech that unlocks
the WW you want him to build and gift it to him on the turn you research it.
This is advice for Vanilla/Warlords. There may be better choices for BTS.

I played a test game with Asoka as my PA, and I couldn't get him to touch the slider or spread his religions around at all.

Not sure there is a way to force your PA partner to increase the culture
slider. There may be a way to do this in BTS.

If you and your PA partner have about %50 Pop, build or have him build
the UN, and vote for Free Speech.

Gifting missionaries to your PA partner should work somewhat OK in getting
him to spread his (your) religions

Will the AI recognise that my city will become Legendary, and so only focus on two culture cities?

In Vanilla/Warlords this seems to happen, mainly by accident, but only when
a cultural win is only a few turns (10-20) away.

In BTS, where the AIs may have the goal of a cultural win very early in the
game, this may happen earlier than anyone suspects.

If I gift the GAs instead of settling them, will my PA culture bomb them in those two cities, or waste them on golden ages and such?

In Vanilla/Warlords, gifted GAs are bombed in only culturally weak cities near
your capital's high culture. Otherwise, the GAs are used/saved by your PA
partner for golden ages.

2: Which AIs are easy to get in an early PA?

Ramesses II will enter into an early DP. Do almost anything to make him
pleased and he will be ready to enter a PA when it is available.

3: Which map settings make it easiest to get gold or gems at the start? I am all for using MapFinder, but I don't want to run 7000 regenerations to get a good start.

To reduce the number of cities your PA partner has and thus reduce the
number of WWs and other culture wasted, select the maximum # of
opponents (7 for Small). If you are somewhat lucky, he will be land locked
in two cities. Terra map may be best here. (The downside is fewer
potential Cathedrals due to only 2-3 temples per religion.)

For gems at start, Pan and Terra are good.

For golds at start, Inland Sea and Rain forests (BTS only) are good.

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu