G-Major 29

[Mesix]

You shouldn't build cathedrals in your GPFarm.

Your numbers are right. Without Sistine's my GPFarm has around 60 base culture. But any of my cottage cities has never had less than 100 base culture. So, assuming that you don't have 6 cities with 6 temples, there is one city that won't build the cathedral, which should it be, the one that has >100c or the one that has <100c? The one that must stop hiring NE-powered artists or the other one?

Your assumption is what is different. I generally get 6 cities built so that I can build Cathedrials in all three Culture cities. Maybe that is why my games are less successful. If I stay at 4 cities, I would not have to turn down the research slider as far. By the time I stop researching I am generally able to turn the Culture slider up to 80% or more, so maintenance is not an issue in the late game as much (what with Courthouses and all).

 

[Mesix]

One more loss under my belt. This time the UN was built in the early 1500s and Ghandi won a Diplomatic Victory. Three of the AI players were gifting me techs by about 1000 AD.

I seem to be slower than the other players in this thread because I only generate about 4-6 GA (along with 1-3 early GS) by about 1500 AD. I have never won the Liberalism race. I have never been able to build the Great Library or the Parthenon (I only try for one or the other and then not every game). I have only been able to build the Sistine Chapel one time (but I have rushed it with a GE from the Pyramids 3 or 4 times).

I have thought about trying to go for a Permanent Aliance with one of the AI players, but the option never comes up. I have gotten Defensive Pacts several times. The AI players are often building late game wonders like the Kremlin, Hollywood, The Apollo Program, and the UN, so I know they are far enough along in the tech tree. Any tips on getting a PA in this type of game?

 

[FiveAces]

Your assumption is what is different. I generally get 6 cities built so that I can build Cathedrials in all three Culture cities. Maybe that is why my games are less successful. If I stay at 4 cities, I would not have to turn down the research slider as far. By the time I stop researching I am generally able to turn the Culture slider up to 80% or more, so maintenance is not an issue in the late game as much (what with Courthouses and all).

Er... I wouldn't build any courthouses. Even with 6 cities, you should be able to trade for enough gold to run at 100% culture. Techs obviously. Paper and edu alone should net you a few thousand, then you can trade your happy resources once you don't need them, and you can even just ask for a gift of around 60g a couple of times from everybody. I had 5 cities in my win and I think I still ended up with over 2000g in my treasury.

 

[oyzar]

You can't actually get 1K+ for every tech as then the AI will just research them themselves before they get that much money. You can get quite alot of gold and certainly enough to never run anything other than research and later culture once you are past currency...

For those struggling to just win just follow the basic outline in post 229.. It is not that hard.. There are also numerous detailed walkthroughs in this thread.. I'll post some saves later when i get inet on my civ computer. Look at the save jesusin posted. Do your games look anything like that? If not, why?

 

[oyzar]

Just played another game also off hof mod.. 4-5 turns left in 1410.. This was on arboria, also without hof mod(and hence map finder) starting site had 3 deer(settled on one on turn two) as well as rice and cows, one grassland hill rest mostly grassland with a few plains titles, alot of it was riverside though. Got alot of gp's(last was at 2000 or 2300 i think, 3 GS rest artists), got marble this time but still didn't have time for mom and taj... Bombed mostly my gp farm but also the secondary cottage city a ton, it got a bit culture preasured by darius in the early game so it couldn't work all titles before i bombed it twice(after settling the GA from music there)... I got some saves eventually(the 1560 save is from the inland sea game, the others are from the arboria game, sorry for not using proper naming convention). I have already upgraded to 3.17 so seems like i can't use hof mod yet... Guess i won't get a proper game in for this competition anyways... Funny thing about this last game is that i was actually teching so slow that i got gifted both masonery and math before i discovered alpha!!

 

[unclethrill]

Not only because of the 100% multiplier(my capital had alot of culture from all the wonders as well as from the artists it ran) but also for the GA points which would have contributed quite alot over the course of the game..

All what wonders?? The AI beats me to everything but TSC because I beeline for it and chop rush it. Are you able to get more wonders?

 

[oyzar]

Pantheon and TSC as well as national epic(and i should have built hermitage there as welll), you can check out the other game, i got the same wonder configuration there... I did a severe mistake which cost me alot of turns in teching alpha before aestics, i could just have traded aestics for alpha from mansa or darius which both had alpha before me(which is why they gifted me techs), although due to the gifting i guess it worked out fine anyways...

 

[Mesix]

Er... I wouldn't build any courthouses. Even with 6 cities, you should be able to trade for enough gold to run at 100% culture. Techs obviously. Paper and edu alone should net you a few thousand, then you can trade your happy resources once you don't need them, and you can even just ask for a gift of around 60g a couple of times from everybody. I had 5 cities in my win and I think I still ended up with over 2000g in my treasury.

Actually, I generally have two commerce cities and a GP farm (like the formula says to do). The other three cities are usually a secondary GP farm (with a few less specialists) and two production centers that link up some resources. Both of them generally build a granary followed by one temple of each religion. After finishing the temples, the Courthouses are a quick build in about 6 turns or so and net me a savings of 4-5 gold per city. 10 Gold per turn in maintenance saved over 100+ turns adds up fast when you consider that it only cost a few turns of production. The GP farms often slow build a courthouse too after they have finished building all other essential buildings.

 

[ssjos]

I tried to play a Boreal as well
Was really nice with the Deer + plainhill start and stuff, however my early tech was horrible, and I even had gems in start loc.

I did hunting, bronze, wheel(from hut), agricult, pottery, meditation, PH, Write, COL(free), math, Traded for alpha, CS.

However once I started reseraching math my economy crashed. I had barely no cottages and only one gem mine. Maybe I got to greedy with city locations and I think I should have searched for 2 gem startloc.
Maybe skip agricult and pottery as well but then I think alpha is needed before math

"Late game" boreal was actually quite great. I had plenty of forests to chop down which enabled my to build very many cultural buildings very fast. I got first to liberalism (no music), MoM, Tach Mahal and Sinistine Chapel. Finished in 1490 AD, a bit worse than my best game so far on inland sea.

 

[oyzar]

I've done a few starts now and i don't think you need double gems to succeed... My last start was tripple deer + corn + double silver(under forest though), The trick is to build riverside cottages asap, that way your economy won't crash too hard.. And even if it does it can be all good in that you get gifted techs... The chopping in the early game can really speed up settlers and workers as you got nearly unlimited forests... In that game my gp farm was 4 deer + cows + copper on grassland. Haven't finished yet but due to ai claiming all the leftover good city spots i was left with a mediocre 3rd city so not sure how fast the finish will be...

 

[ssjos]

Yeah I guess, I had 2 grassriver tiles (1 forested), plainhill(for city), 1 gemhill(tundra, froest), 3 plaindeer, 3 tundradeer and 1 wheat. I had trouble working all all that many cottages though since I had to work some deers and also work the gemmine. I had a limit of 6 population because of happieness.

I played as Pacal, dunno why actaully anyhow fast graneries was kinda nice. Im wondering if Hannibal is worth trying out for earlygame happieness bonus (+1 by default and +1 for monument).... Anyhow, the Health may be fixable by simply leaving some more forests at least on Boreal game.

 

[oyzar]

I usually get monarchy in trade from aesthetics as the AI's tend to tech this relatively early, after that you have very little happiness issues, doubt charismatic would be worth it for just +2 happiness prior to that... Spiritual is probably better but not sure if it is better than financial or philosophical... You can just build workers and settlers while waiting for monarchy anyways as this seems to time fairly well. In arboria you won't get any thundra so not sure where you have this from...

 

[ssjos]

Ohh I was playing Boreal :s
I thought that was the map you played as well I guess I was mistaken

Lol arboria looked really nice basically its grassland instead of plains and tundra

 

[Lexad]

Dang, with immortal GOTM just finished and two Deity GOTMs underway, there's no way for me to participate in the tournament

 

[Mesix]

HOF Gauntlets are much better than playing the GOTM IMHO.

 

[unclethrill]

6) Delay trading Literature and Drama as much as possible while building The Sistine Chapel, but never trade Music until it (TSC) is built.

7) Research Civil Service -> Paper -> Education (bulb 1 GS) -> Liberalism.

8) Don't trade Education until Liberalism is completed.

Sun Tzu Wu

Here is where I have a problem. How do you delay trading anything? I find that I either trade the techs I have immediately or else the AI demands it from me. In which case, he has maceman (rifleman, mech infantry,...) and I have warriors so I'm obliged to give them everything they ask for.

 

[Mesix]

Well...there are a couple more losses under my belt. I have noticed that Ghandi is almost always the winner (unless one of the other peeps gets an early religious victory). Unclethrill recommended that I play without Ghandi. Maybe that is the problem I am having.

What leader combinations have other people had luck with?

 

[WastinTime]

why not play Gandhi yourself?

 

[oyzar]

Well...there are a couple more losses under my belt. I have noticed that Ghandi is almost always the winner (unless one of the other peeps gets an early religious victory). Unclethrill recommended that I play without Ghandi. Maybe that is the problem I am having.

What leader combinations have other people had luck with?

I have daruis roosvelt, lincon and mansa currently. Mansa always end up demanding me into islam after spreading it to all my 4 cities so it is nice anyways... Ghandi might be better than lizzy due to his UU and starting techs, but it's hard to pass up financial.

Seriously if you are building 3 good cities, one of them being a GP farm the other two being cottage cities and 1 other city in decent time i have hard to see how you can keep losing... If you can't get 4 cities up just start over... Build worker -> warrior's until happy cap(with 2+ improvable food resources anyways) then alternate settlers and workers(with an extra worker tossed on, the exact build order depends on what titles you have and what techs you research as with BW you probably want more workers earlier), until you have 4 cities and 6 workers, and you should be set. After done with the workers and settlers you build a library in capital(some of the settlers, workers can actually come from other cities, they don't all need to come from the capital) and then run 2 scientists, do this in at least one of the other cities as well(maybe the GP farm?) until you have 3 GS, use the first one to make an academy in your best cottage city(prolly your capital which will be most developed by then) the others to bulb philo and then education. In the capital improve first food resources then commerce resources(like gems gold and silver), before making mines(until you can work all improved titles at happy cap), then depending on the game either chop or road towards the new city(important to have a worker improving every new city immediately, if you can't do this you should probably have built a worker before the settler). By using this method i find it hard to actually fail at winning baring a lucky AP win or an unlikely dow... Tech path depends a bit on resources but i find either something like ag -> wheel -> pottery -> writing -> alpha or hunting -> bw -> wheel -> pottery -> writing -> alpha(or if you have very spaced cities without any commerce resources in capital it can sometimes work to tech aesthetics before alpha and then trade for alpha). this last tech path is obviously for a deer heavy arboria start, but anyways these techpaths are just guidelines and nothing absolute...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Here is where I have a problem. How do you delay trading anything? I find that I either trade the techs I have immediately or else the AI demands it from me. In which case, he has maceman (rifleman, mech infantry,...) and I have warriors so I'm obliged to give them everything they ask for.

If your Diplomacy is high enough (at least 4), the AI will not demand Technologies as tribute. However, with high Diplomacy the AI may still ask for Technology gifts; if your Diplomacy is at least 5, you can safely decline (losing only 1 point of Diplomacy).

Sun Tzu Wu