G-Major 29
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
Htadus
A and L's dad
To anyone.
How soon do you go for cast system over slavery?
My game suffer because I never go to slavary and my culture and GP farms take forever to build the needed buildings. With all the food slavery may be the way to go at first but then the capital suffers the wrath of the game designers.
How soon do you go for cast system over slavery?
My game suffer because I never go to slavary and my culture and GP farms take forever to build the needed buildings. With all the food slavery may be the way to go at first but then the capital suffers the wrath of the game designers.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
To anyone.
How soon do you go for cast system over slavery?
My game suffer because I never go to slavary and my culture and GP farms take forever to build the needed buildings. With all the food slavery may be the way to go at first but then the capital suffers the wrath of the game designers.
I have the same problem. I almost never run slavery because I hate to take the hit to my population. I think that once I get better at slaving buildings, I'll score much better.
On this gauntlet, I slaved the lib. and granary then switched to CS when I had civil service so that I could switch both at the same time and start running artists.
Bram
Chieftain
Correct. Settling on a food resource on grassland gets you 3 food. Ivory only helps if it's on a Plains, otherwise it's still only 1 hammer. Settling on a food resource is especially useful on a Rainforest map. There's usually enough food left and Plains Hills are quite rare. On Inland Sea, food resources are usually too important to settle on.
EDIT: Features are not taken into account. Settling on a Flood Plains gets you just two food.
I started on Pyramids after completing Library and Granary (I had Stone, but no Marble). It finished 1200 BC. Then I built Aqueduct and Hanging Gardens (finished 675 BC) and some religious buildings. In 475 BC I discovered Aesthetics and started building Statue of Zeus (375 BC), Parthenon (225 BC) and Shwedagon Paya (50 BC). Discovered Music 175 BC (3 turns after Mansa Musa) and completed Sistine Chapel in Sparta with a Great Engineer. Lincoln completed University of Sankore in 225 AD, two turns ahead of Corinth. My capital had to build religious buildings at some point...
Liberalism 425 AD, choose Nationalism, build Taj Mahal, change all civics for free!
Correct - Pericles has Fishing and Hunting.
I research Civil Service first, then Aesthetics, Literature and Music.
Mansa Musa usually has Mathematics for trade when I need it. That's why I keep choosing him as an opponent even though he sometimes beats me to Music. The other reason is that Mansa doesn't usually try to get to Liberalism first. Free market is his favorite civic and Economcs is what he's after.
My other opponents are Lincoln, Darius I and Frederick.
Civil Service should be a priority, but a slingshot seems to be the fastest way there. Since you listed a Great Prophet, it probably came from The Oracle on a success bid to get Civil Service, right?
Since you list Music just before Liberalism, do you research Music or are you able to trade for it?
You didn't mention the your end date; Are you waiting till the gauntlet ends, forgot to mention it or did I miss it?
Excellent write up!
Sun Tzu Wu
I didn't even try to build the Oracle. I didn't have Marble and didn't expect to finish it first. The Great Prophet was from Moai Statues in Sparta.
I didn't mention my end date yet. 1230 AD.
Do you mean that you used a GE on Taj Mahal?
Otherwise, waiting for so long to revolt to FS wouldn't be worth it, even if it saves a turn of revolt.
Bram
Chieftain
Yes, I did.
This weekend I have come to a very similar conclusion: the date of Liberalism is not as important as the number of temples/cathedrals you have built at 1AD.
When I wrote the first post of the sub-1000AD thread, I thought that the special thing about that game was Liberalism in the BC (and high number of GP). I worked hard on improving that, bulbing lots of GS, for example. I don't have problems getting Liberalism in the BC with a single GS, now. But I didn't improve my date. Why? Because the importatn point about that game wasn't the Liberalism date.
It was the early settlers and the high amount of food in every city, which allowed me to whip lots of missionaries and temples in all the cities at the same time.
Slavery is a civic, and as such it affects all your cities. When your GPFarm is ready for artists, soon before 1AD, your other cities must have finished whipping. Other cities that are behind in developement must do without slavery or your GP generation will suffer. So you want all of your cities setted at more or less the same time, so they can all be aligned with your Slavery-then-Castes timetable.
An example of the wrongness of prioritizing research over hammers is this:
Eli, BTS, inland sea. Corn+2gold+5FP start not on a PH. I research Wheel-Pott-Myst-Medi-PH-Wri-CoL. Since I haven't researched agriculture not Alpha, I ignore the corn. Quickly build a bunch of cottages and grow, then work the golds too. Build Worker-Warrior-Settler-Oracle.
CS slingshot done in turn 62. The same turn, they trade me Alphabet. Settler has travelled far, towards a religion founder AI, so it gets the second spreaded religion. It has a lot of FPs and Marble, will be GPFarm. I have founded confu. I am in the best of positions, aren't I?
No, I am not. Without marble, my worker has had to stay in the capital to chop 4 forest pre-Maths on Oracle. So my GPFarm has to build a Worker at pop1, puaj. My next settler is a bit late, so it can't get the bananas and settles without food resource, with 4FP, copper and a lot of grass. 4th city in a disgusting place, nothing best left; very late too, turn 84.
I run Bu+CS for a short time to get my Academy without a Library. Then revolt to Slavery+OR. But here comes the problem. My 3rd and 4th cities have just been settled and have not pop enough to whip their granaries. My 2nd and 3rd cities have not a food resource, so whipping is not very interesting. My capital has to feed 2 goldminers with a single corn, so bad excess food and bad whipping.
Used a GPro on a GAge to reach Liberalism in the BC and save 2 revolution turns. But nobody would trade for Music yet. So I went into 100% culture without a single cathedral built. NE built as late as turn 118. I finished Hermitage in turn 133, without Music yet (I had not the temples built anyway). Taj Mahal and revolution to Merc. Victory in the late 16th century.
So the CS sling was bright researchwise, but delayed my expansion and didn't result in a good finish date. I will be playing without early wonders from now on.
I wanted to thank all of you for the great advice in this Gauntlet. Not only was I able to finish what for me seemed an impossible task a few weeks ago, but it also improved my early game skills. I would say that before trying (and failing several times) at this Gauntlet, I could win consistently on Noble and most of the time on Prince. Monarch and above were like a lucky roll of dice. I can now tackel a Monarch game without any problems at all thinks to my efficient eraly game development. I will move up to Emperor and Immortal games after the update (as I want to fill some holes in my EQM at Monarch level first).
Thanks again for all the tips and strategies.
Thanks again for all the tips and strategies.
How many religions did you found? and how many did you have before Liberalism?
As a probe of concept I have played a so-so start (no river, corn+marble+1FP+gold+jungle gems, had to move the first turn).
Researched Agri-Wheel-Pott-Wri-Alpha-Music-CoL-CS-Paper-Educ-Liber.
Built Wor-War-Set-Set-Wor-Set-Wor.
Later built Parthenon, Sistine's (oh, my! it's incredible!) and Taj.
Had 3 cathedrals, 3 religions, 220bpt and NE at 1AD.
Liber 350AD, chose PP and traded for Natio.
Got 1GS+15GA. WON 1380AD.
So I am sure now: food and hammers with very similarly developped cities is the way to go. If I have the time for another game, I'll try CS before Music.
Bram
Chieftain
I founded Christianity (with Code of Laws) and 3 spread to me, Islam and Judaism early and Buddhism in 650 BC. This is a problem on the Rainforest map, which I'm currently trying without much success. Religions don't spread fast enough. I have a capital with Silver, Copper, 3 Pigs, Stone and 4 Hills and two other cities with 5 food resources each, but with only one religion...
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 7,920
So Rainforest was the map you used in your AD 1230 win?
Rainforest seems to have potential for very early Cultural wins. However, Health seems to be a problem, especially for the primary GP Farm. Not enough different Health resources and a few with only 1-2 tiles on the entire map. Things may be better if you have a monopoly on the few rare Health resources. What especially hurt was my missing both Corn and Wheat which together alone provide 4 Health with Granary.
I did not have any trouble with Religion spread in my Rainforest game (four spread early, probably the result of all four opponents spamming their State Religion.
Sun Tzu Wu
I'm guessing Bram didn't use rainforest for the 1230. I think he's experimenting. Besides the health problems, that map has a lack of forest chopping. Now if jungles gave some hammers...
Bram
Chieftain
Correct. The 1230 was on Inland Sea.
Rainforest was not as bad as I first thought. I just finished a game in 1510 with Peter:
2080 BC Alphabet
1920 BC Great Scientist for Academy
1320 BC Code of Laws discovered; I founded Taoism
1320 BC Civil Service from Oracle
1240 BC Islam spread to me
975 BC completed The Pyramids
650 BC completed The Hanging Gardens
300 BC first to discover Music
225 BC completed The Statue of Zeus
100 AD completed The Sistine Chapel
375 AD completed Shwedagon Paya in St. Petersburg (Slavery, sacrifice 8 population)
375 AD completed University of Sancore in Novgorod (Slavery, sacrifice 9 population)
520 AD Atlanta revolts; this allows me to spread Hinduism
560 AD Christianity spread to me
620 AD Liberalism discovered (1 turn after Darius I)
980 AD Nationalism discovered
1080 AD completed Hermitage
I had 3 Great Scientists, 5 Great Prophets and 11 Great Artists. I had to run scientists in my cities for a long time to boost research. I should have researched Drama earlier to be able to run artists instead. I couldn't switch to Caste system because my second and third cities needed Slavery for production. Around 800 AD I finished most of the cathedrals. The last part of the game went a lot faster than I expected. At 800 AD, I still had no Great Artists (except for the Great Artist from Music, which I settled) and I doubted whether I could even get a win. But with at least 10 artists in all cities, the last part of the game is a lot faster than on Inland Sea.
only had time for 1 try.
Pretty good except I missed my 3rd city spot (by one turn, of course), so I had to make do with some unremarkable 3rd spot, and it didn't work out.
I guess oracle + pyramids + sistin chapel was a bit too many wonders...
I lost to hatchepetsuh (cultural victory for her = loss for me) in 1770 AD.
It would take a few more tries until I get it done, but time's up... too bad
Pretty good except I missed my 3rd city spot (by one turn, of course), so I had to make do with some unremarkable 3rd spot, and it didn't work out.
I guess oracle + pyramids + sistin chapel was a bit too many wonders...
I lost to hatchepetsuh (cultural victory for her = loss for me) in 1770 AD.
It would take a few more tries until I get it done, but time's up... too bad
I had time for a last attempt... barely. I hate playing under time preassure. I have had an argument with my wife. I have made too many mistakes. And the hermitage thing... it has been too much, I am discouraged.
Eli, BTS, Rainforest: 3banana,2gems,corn. Settled on bananas. Agg-Myst-Med-PH-Wri-CoL-Maths. Wor-2War-2Set-Wor-Orac. CS sling t61, 3rel, Bu+CS, load from autosave due to power failure. Music next, then Liber. t63, health+2 RE. t68, Acad, 4useless Wor, 4rel. Alpha tr t74. 1st Music t91. t98sla+OR. Parth t100. NE t109 but no art. Sist t115, 133bpt! no state religion. Liber other t123. 4th cath t130. In GA islam, HR+CS+Pa. FS+Merc t137, 50%c!!! RE:1 free GA. 1000AD: only 50%c but 450GPPpt. Renegociate marble deal just the turn I start Hermit! Failed Hermit on the last turn because of accepting flipping city with Herm in it!!!! Mismanaged GA, lost 3t, WON 1400AD. 1GS,1GP, 18GA, 7 cathedrals, 8 Workers. The Aux city passed the intended 2nd cottage city, so it became yet another GPFarm and my research rate lacked.
This map promises, but everything depends greatly on IW date!
Eli, BTS, Rainforest: 3banana,2gems,corn. Settled on bananas. Agg-Myst-Med-PH-Wri-CoL-Maths. Wor-2War-2Set-Wor-Orac. CS sling t61, 3rel, Bu+CS, load from autosave due to power failure. Music next, then Liber. t63, health+2 RE. t68, Acad, 4useless Wor, 4rel. Alpha tr t74. 1st Music t91. t98sla+OR. Parth t100. NE t109 but no art. Sist t115, 133bpt! no state religion. Liber other t123. 4th cath t130. In GA islam, HR+CS+Pa. FS+Merc t137, 50%c!!! RE:1 free GA. 1000AD: only 50%c but 450GPPpt. Renegociate marble deal just the turn I start Hermit! Failed Hermit on the last turn because of accepting flipping city with Herm in it!!!! Mismanaged GA, lost 3t, WON 1400AD. 1GS,1GP, 18GA, 7 cathedrals, 8 Workers. The Aux city passed the intended 2nd cottage city, so it became yet another GPFarm and my research rate lacked.
This map promises, but everything depends greatly on IW date!
I had no time for any more runs. Didn't get to try my PA strategy either. OCC-PA was not the way to go. OCC only gets good if you plan to build Oxford, otherwise it's just a handicap. Non-OCC with a PA might have been fun, but not 12xx AD.
A couple players have mentioned the CS sling. Is there something special you do to prevent the others from getting Oracle first? Like picking AI that don't go for it? or playing Aggressive AI? etc? I can't imagine praying until t60 that no one will built it first. Or do you just keep re-starting until you get lucky?
A couple players have mentioned the CS sling. Is there something special you do to prevent the others from getting Oracle first? Like picking AI that don't go for it? or playing Aggressive AI? etc? I can't imagine praying until t60 that no one will built it first. Or do you just keep re-starting until you get lucky?
I played vs Lincon, Sitting bull, Percicles and Hannibal. I got CS sling in 3 out of 4 games that I tried on inland sea.
However, Hannibal is not fun to play with because he always finds a worst enemy and then gives you massive penelty when you trade with Hannibals enemy, so I guess he should be replaced.
Playing vs Mansa Musa and trying for CS sling is extremly hard I think, I failed twice
Bram
Chieftain
CS sling is a lot easier on a Rainforest map. On Inland Sea, Mansa Musa usually completes Oracle around 1700 BC.
Similar threads
