G-Major 37
- Thread starter Denniz
- Start date
Harbourboy
Deity
Quick speed is a killer. All of a sudden there only 100 turns to go but I've only got 13% of the overall land! It just takes centuries to advance a few tiles across the screen.
If I walk 5 steps to a city, 1 turn to take it, 2 turns to heal up - that's at least 8 turns per enemy city. Even with 2 or 3 stacks, the maximum number of cities I can take in 100turns is only about 20 or so. That's not taking into account the time wasted every time Shaka shows up from the other side of the map with his infeasibly large stack of outdated units that I have to leave defenders behind to deal with.
How is a domination victory even possible within 330 turns on a huge map? Another Time victory coming up for me, I fear.
If I walk 5 steps to a city, 1 turn to take it, 2 turns to heal up - that's at least 8 turns per enemy city. Even with 2 or 3 stacks, the maximum number of cities I can take in 100turns is only about 20 or so. That's not taking into account the time wasted every time Shaka shows up from the other side of the map with his infeasibly large stack of outdated units that I have to leave defenders behind to deal with.
How is a domination victory even possible within 330 turns on a huge map? Another Time victory coming up for me, I fear.
a few hints from a not quite good player, to take into account the particularity of quick
- 2 moves are necessary
- healing troops should not be a reason to wait = the reinforcements should be enough to go for the next city
- the AI builds a lot more units on quick than on any other speed, because it can build a unit in just 1 turn almost everywhere = overwhelming numbers are quite higher than on other speeds. I didn't attack with less than 10 units + more coming.
A few remarks about the huge/quick aspect :
- settlers are a lot cheaper than the units needed to take a city
- the economy is a lot more forgiving than I first thought = financial may be unnecessary
- creative is just the best trait here
A few remarks on my game :
- I put a few more AIs than standard, which was a mistake, it made it more difficult to peacefully expand, and not significantly easier to reach the domination threshhold
- the warrior rush really made a difference, although my neighbour did very little for me (no wonder, no holy city, only 1 worker)
Imperialistic so far outperforms creative it is not funny. Especially if you get stonehenge(not getting it when you settle your capital on a stone plains hill is rather hard, even if you start close enough to two people for double warrior rush).
Financial is certanly not necesarry. Getting mids isn't hard(especially with stone) so just using food and specialists is often way better than commerce(though i did have a dozen cottages that helped me tech until i got mids/libraries up where needed.)
By warrior rushing all nearby people you will have plenty of land to rex on(in my game i got 13 cities after warrior rushing asoka, but that was because there were noone else nearby to warrior rush).
By putting in more AI's(i had 18), the AI's will have less land to exapnd and there is higher chance of you getting multiple AI's to rush. I don't think more AI's is a mistake but is necesarry.
You can't expect to get a wonder on turn 15-20 ??? Getting a worker is more than expected. So is getting a holy city. I got both in my best game(which sadly got invalidated due to crashed as mentioned previously).
I had absolutely no problems with too many units. With capratches you can kill any sort of ancient units at decent odds(and if you don't get decent odds just use flanking2). With 18 civs by the time you need to heal you have already taken out one civ, but yes you are producing more units than you have at any given time so reinfocements will be larger than your standing army for the 2 first civs you take out. By the time you get to the 3-4'th(maybe at the same time) civ you should have enough units to not pause to heal at all since you have more 2 move units(capratches, but i guess cavalery and currasairs is also doable). 2 move units means you conquer twice as fast, hence both giving you a faster win date AND giving the AI less time to get to feudalism(or for cav vs longbows to rifles, though they shouldn't ever get to rifles...).
well, I had him in the game hoping he (industrious) would give me an early wonder...
It doesn't change a lot to have peaceful AIs or not...
The more I think about it, the more I think having a few crazy warmongers in the game, could make it faster.
More warmonger AI's means less chance of early alpha(i traded for alpha, math, col, iw, sailing, fishing, poly, monotheism, construction(not that i needed it other than faster road movement), calendar(didn't really need that either), currency(should have researched this myself before metal casting in hindsight, getting all the free gold is huge) in my game(never got hunting or archery, eventually got aestics for peace)). Getting all those free techs definatly speeds up your win.
You have nothing but warriors while rexing(which is aproximatly til 0 AD) having some warmongerinsh AI decleare on you then is rather silly... If you belive that having archers/axes/whatever round at this stage in the game is better without using them to attack with then i don't know how to explain to you that using hammers you don't have to use is a waste(and hence will lead to slower finish date compared to those who spent those hammers on more settlers and workers(and eventually granaries, libraries and maybe courthouses depending on your aproach and tech path).
None AI's are going to build any wonders before 2000 BC at any rate. At that point you certanly don't want to attack someone(as you already noted it is cheaper to just build settlers and workers compared to attack units, even more so with imperialistic).
Yes having darius get feud in 500 AD sucks, but you don't even have to attack everyone to win and it's not like he'll trade it around...
You have nothing but warriors while rexing(which is aproximatly til 0 AD) having some warmongerinsh AI decleare on you then is rather silly... If you belive that having archers/axes/whatever round at this stage in the game is better without using them to attack with then i don't know how to explain to you that using hammers you don't have to use is a waste(and hence will lead to slower finish date compared to those who spent those hammers on more settlers and workers(and eventually granaries, libraries and maybe courthouses depending on your aproach and tech path).
None AI's are going to build any wonders before 2000 BC at any rate. At that point you certanly don't want to attack someone(as you already noted it is cheaper to just build settlers and workers compared to attack units, even more so with imperialistic).
Yes having darius get feud in 500 AD sucks, but you don't even have to attack everyone to win and it's not like he'll trade it around...
I've already seen stonehenge built before I got masonry, thus before I got any use of the stone.
However, I don't care for stonehenge, because
- I prefer being creative
- with caste sytem on quick, it only takes 2 turns running an artist to get the border expansion. With stonehenge, it's still 2 turns.
However, I think an imperialist and creative leader could be good for this one. Cathy for the win?
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Well, let's see:
- He is in a many-way tie for the 2nd lowest ibuildunitprob in the game (20), behind only Gandhi (15).
- He is neither protective nor creative, and isn't exactly a speed techer. In other words, he is a sitting duck.
- His peaceweight might not be like Ghandi or Lincoln's, but he's no warmonger. If you're getting declared on by the likes of egypt in a game like this either they're someone's vassal or you're doing something wrong. His power is pitiful all game.
And if he's not one of the first people you rush, he WILL build wonders for you. IMO he should be in every game format with a goal like this.
Ok, maybe i am in the wrong not having ramsess in the game due to his unitbuildprob... Sorry about that.
Problem with creative is that it's benefit is marginal if you could build the henge(not hard to do with stone). By going with a creative civ you don't get access to capratches. It is not like spiritual is useless...
On a sparse map rexing with cathy might be a very good plan, especially combined with warrior rushing a civ or two. Not sure if it would be faster than attacking around 500 AD(pre-lbows) but it might be worth a try.
Problem with creative is that it's benefit is marginal if you could build the henge(not hard to do with stone). By going with a creative civ you don't get access to capratches. It is not like spiritual is useless...
On a sparse map rexing with cathy might be a very good plan, especially combined with warrior rushing a civ or two. Not sure if it would be faster than attacking around 500 AD(pre-lbows) but it might be worth a try.
I had been thinking Rome. Let me spit out my theories, and get some feedback.
The UU itself is very powerful in the ancient and medieval. While nobody has mentioned it here, I have even found it highly effective in Renaissance - if you issue City raider 3 Praetorians, and upgrade them into grenadiers, you get a very low cost but caple city attaking unit. Normally grenadiers cannot get CR3, but rome seems to be able to build praetorians and grenadiers at the same time, and simply upgrade as needed.
I would think that vassal states would be a key to this game.
(1) Less time conquering.
(2) Easy to build a critical mass that scares the crap out of others, and makes capitulation easier.
(3) Once capitulated, you can run on their roads to reach the next civ.
But after all I have read here, now I am thinking more about horses.
It might also help to start at the end of a long thin pangea so you have no backside to defend until astronomy.
Thoughts?
The UU itself is very powerful in the ancient and medieval. While nobody has mentioned it here, I have even found it highly effective in Renaissance - if you issue City raider 3 Praetorians, and upgrade them into grenadiers, you get a very low cost but caple city attaking unit. Normally grenadiers cannot get CR3, but rome seems to be able to build praetorians and grenadiers at the same time, and simply upgrade as needed.
I would think that vassal states would be a key to this game.
(1) Less time conquering.
(2) Easy to build a critical mass that scares the crap out of others, and makes capitulation easier.
(3) Once capitulated, you can run on their roads to reach the next civ.
But after all I have read here, now I am thinking more about horses.
It might also help to start at the end of a long thin pangea so you have no backside to defend until astronomy.
Thoughts?
billybgame
King
I'm giving this a go, with Kubla Khan.....aggressive and creative.
I don't even know what a capratch is. Maybe it's something not in vanilla
No warrior rushing from me. I'm not much into what I consider cheesy play tactics. I just built a few cities, nabbed copper and iron, and started pumping out swordsmen, axemen and catapults. Guess my plan is to try and take the nearest surrounding civs, then go from there.
Playing on Inland Sea. Figured that might be a good map for this.
Probably making a litany of mistakes, though.
Did wonder why my commerce/research was tanking so much already, just as I was starting to take out my first Civ. Probably should have built some cottages earlier.
Other problem is no horses to be seen, amazingly. Nowhere, I've been.
I may restart.
I don't even know what a capratch is. Maybe it's something not in vanilla
No warrior rushing from me. I'm not much into what I consider cheesy play tactics. I just built a few cities, nabbed copper and iron, and started pumping out swordsmen, axemen and catapults. Guess my plan is to try and take the nearest surrounding civs, then go from there.
Playing on Inland Sea. Figured that might be a good map for this.
Probably making a litany of mistakes, though.
Did wonder why my commerce/research was tanking so much already, just as I was starting to take out my first Civ. Probably should have built some cottages earlier.
Other problem is no horses to be seen, amazingly. Nowhere, I've been.
I may restart.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
I'm giving this a go, with Kubla Khan.....aggressive and creative.
I don't even know what a capratch is. Maybe it's something not in vanilla
No warrior rushing from me. I'm not much into what I consider cheesy play tactics. I just built a few cities, nabbed copper and iron, and started pumping out swordsmen, axemen and catapults. Guess my plan is to try and take the nearest surrounding civs, then go from there.
Playing on Inland Sea. Figured that might be a good map for this.
Probably making a litany of mistakes, though.
Did wonder why my commerce/research was tanking so much already, just as I was starting to take out my first Civ. Probably should have built some cottages earlier.
Other problem is no horses to be seen, amazingly. Nowhere, I've been.
I may restart.
There is no such thing as a "capratch" in any version of civ. Just to clear things up in case others don't realize, he's referring to cataphracts - Justinian of the Byzantine's UU. It is a knight with 12 strength that lacks inherent first strike immunity, making it just barely weaker than the cuirasser.
IMO Keshiks are a pretty sound choice too (I personally rate them as highly as praetorians). I didn't know "cheesy" tactics that are perfectly valid in the hall of fame would be of concern to players in this subforum. Interesting. The way I set the map made it not particularly viable to do on quick in my game, but if I'd have benefited from a warrior rush I'd have done so in a heartbeat. All's fair in love and civ IV war (assuming it doesn't break any rules)
I went the "crazy vassal" route.
Pretty easy, but slow.
If you want a good place in this gauntlet, build settlers.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
I wonder about that
.No, come to think of it, I did make one early. I also made a whole buncha them at the end, to fill in enough to squeeze over the threshold, often abusing the fact that even a crap tiny city will push its bfc culture into vassal territory.
I don't think I finished early enough to hold #1, but I think I MIGHT make top 3, which I could definitely live with in my first gauntlet! Hmmmmm, so far there's only 2 submissions.
with the crazy vassal route, you get no open spots for late settlers,I wonder about that
No, come to think of it, I did make one early. I also made a whole buncha them at the end, to fill in enough to squeeze over the threshold, often abusing the fact that even a crap tiny city will push its bfc culture into vassal territory.
I don't think I finished early enough to hold #1, but I think I MIGHT make top 3, which I could definitely live with in my first gauntlet! Hmmmmm, so far there's only 2 submissions.
so I rest my case
Similar threads
