G-Major 6/7
- Thread starter superslug
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azzaman333
meh
Aarrggghhh.... my laptop screen died while playing my attempt at the gauntlet, so I dont really want to be testing whether my laptop can finish this.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
I took another try at this gauntlet. I decided to try Liz again... I was gonna try Washington per WastinTime's idea, but I still had a good Liz map saved from Mapfinder. Started out OK, but ran into a real bad run of luck:
- I set up a so-so GP factory... no caste system, but I did stick Epic and GLib in there to generate a decent about of GPPs. This combo was giving me 84% chance of a scientist and 16% chance of Artist. Believe it or not, after 1 scientist, my next three GP's were all 16% artists
. Also, I was a little late getting the GP factory started, so my Oracle city managed to create a second prophet along the way. This meant I was only able to set up three academies total. (WastinTime, this might be another reason to go for Washington and the civics savings... no point in getting a Philo leader if you get a bunch of artists.)
- I got 9 cities up, but then was boxed in by Cyrus. Decided to scoot over to Miltrad and take him with Cavs. For some reason however, Cyrus built a mammoth army (which he never used). Rather than get into a long war, I decided to go with 9 cities (later squeezed in a tenth).
- Even though I had cavs to her knights, the furthest AI from me (Cathy) decided to sneak attack me. I mauled her attackers, but she managed to pillage two mature towns in one of my academy cities. And since she was so far away, I couldn't take any of her towns.
The one good piece of luck... my relatively small land mass had aluminum. At first I didn't have coal, but eventually a mined hill discovered coal (I would have been able to trade for it).
The outcome... I abandoned around 1780... my ETA was about 1815-1820. No way I would have beaten my 1800 submission. I just couldn't tech fast enough with only three academy cities.
Although I am tempted to try again, I think I'm done this gauntlet. I'm pretty sure I can beat 1800. Who knows, maybe even take a run at WastinTime's lead??
However,
brought me Warlords and I'm pretty anxious to give it a try.
- I set up a so-so GP factory... no caste system, but I did stick Epic and GLib in there to generate a decent about of GPPs. This combo was giving me 84% chance of a scientist and 16% chance of Artist. Believe it or not, after 1 scientist, my next three GP's were all 16% artists
. Also, I was a little late getting the GP factory started, so my Oracle city managed to create a second prophet along the way. This meant I was only able to set up three academies total. (WastinTime, this might be another reason to go for Washington and the civics savings... no point in getting a Philo leader if you get a bunch of artists.)- I got 9 cities up, but then was boxed in by Cyrus. Decided to scoot over to Miltrad and take him with Cavs. For some reason however, Cyrus built a mammoth army (which he never used). Rather than get into a long war, I decided to go with 9 cities (later squeezed in a tenth).
- Even though I had cavs to her knights, the furthest AI from me (Cathy) decided to sneak attack me. I mauled her attackers, but she managed to pillage two mature towns in one of my academy cities. And since she was so far away, I couldn't take any of her towns.
The one good piece of luck... my relatively small land mass had aluminum. At first I didn't have coal, but eventually a mined hill discovered coal (I would have been able to trade for it).
The outcome... I abandoned around 1780... my ETA was about 1815-1820. No way I would have beaten my 1800 submission. I just couldn't tech fast enough with only three academy cities.
Although I am tempted to try again, I think I'm done this gauntlet. I'm pretty sure I can beat 1800. Who knows, maybe even take a run at WastinTime's lead??
However,
brought me Warlords and I'm pretty anxious to give it a try.Hyppy
Chieftain
As a relatively new player (again), I'm still trying to find my groove within the game so I can perfect my strategies and such. I've never beaten a "real" prince game before (Quecha rushes for a spot on QM don't count 
), so I figured this would be a good drive to get me to complete one. I've tried 2 so far, and while I've done better than I thought I would, I still have a ways to go.
Game 1
My first attempt, I tried with Julius. My initial idea was to smash a neighbor, take their land, and build up from there. The idea could have worked, I think, except my execution was *all* wrong. I built up an army of a dozen Praetorians relatively quick, then went looking for a good fight. Cyrus pretty far behind, a neighbor to me, and is generally obnoxious in every game I play against him in. Sounds like a good target to me! I run over, and smash all three cities in as many turns at it takes my sword-wielding Romanis to scurry over there. Great, so now I have 5 cities, and a little land left over with which to expand if I see fit.
Did I stop fighting, start building, and play it smart? No... I got greedy, and thats what did me in for this one. I decided "Well hey hey hey, I have close to 20 Praetorians, why not take out Elizabeth, too?". And take her out I did, all 6 of her cities. It took me around 1000 years to even come close to "fixing" my economy, but it wasn't enough. Louis DOWed me a couple hundred years later when he noticed I could barely afford to eat, much less make an army.
Lessons learned:
- Don't get greeedy in the beginning. 5-6 cities is all I need before currency and CoL
- Diplomacy is going to be a lot tougher here than I first thought
- Keep a standing army. Always.
- Praetorians are great for an early rush to jumpstart, but read the first lesson again
Game 2
After my crushing defeat, I thought I'd go ahead and give it a shot a couple days later. The deadline was extended, so I saw myself having a real opportunity to get a tick on my Gauntlet slot with this one. I chose Elizabeth as my leader this time, to help round out my nations for QM. My opponents were Gandhi, Cyrus, Asoka, Fredrick, Catherine, Qin Shi Huang. I did a mapfinder til I found what I thought to be a good spot. Grasslands as far as the eye can see, forests abound, a few bonus resources, and rivers flowing every which way. This was off to a good start!
After expanding to about 5 cities, I started building upwards. I was quite disturbed at how hard it was to keep control of my health/happiness, but then again I was pretty bonus-lacking in most of my other cities. It took a *lot* of diplomacy and gifting and such, but I managed to make it through the whole game without getting DOWed. I was quite amazed, seeing as I had a border with just about every civ on the map.
Income was quite good, because for most of the game 5 out of the 7 nations were Hindi. This was quite a good thing for me, since I founded it
In the end, Gandhi won the space race by 20 turns. I just didn't have the pure research and production power he did, partly becuase I only had 5 cities and partly because I didn't have aluminum until about 10 turns before he finished.
Lessons learned:
- 5-6 cities is good before I get a decent economy, but I need more to stay competitive later on
- Health/Happiness resources: don't give them away
- Founding a religion and giving it to everyone on the map is definitely a good thing
- Hereditary rule can be quite handy late-game
The next try....
Does anyone have any tips for my next go at it? I'll take another look through this thread, but I have a feeling applying my lessons won't be enough without a little luck.
Thanks for reading!
), so I figured this would be a good drive to get me to complete one. I've tried 2 so far, and while I've done better than I thought I would, I still have a ways to go.Game 1
My first attempt, I tried with Julius. My initial idea was to smash a neighbor, take their land, and build up from there. The idea could have worked, I think, except my execution was *all* wrong. I built up an army of a dozen Praetorians relatively quick, then went looking for a good fight. Cyrus pretty far behind, a neighbor to me, and is generally obnoxious in every game I play against him in. Sounds like a good target to me! I run over, and smash all three cities in as many turns at it takes my sword-wielding Romanis to scurry over there. Great, so now I have 5 cities, and a little land left over with which to expand if I see fit.
Did I stop fighting, start building, and play it smart? No... I got greedy, and thats what did me in for this one. I decided "Well hey hey hey, I have close to 20 Praetorians, why not take out Elizabeth, too?". And take her out I did, all 6 of her cities. It took me around 1000 years to even come close to "fixing" my economy, but it wasn't enough. Louis DOWed me a couple hundred years later when he noticed I could barely afford to eat, much less make an army.
Lessons learned:
- Don't get greeedy in the beginning. 5-6 cities is all I need before currency and CoL
- Diplomacy is going to be a lot tougher here than I first thought
- Keep a standing army. Always.
- Praetorians are great for an early rush to jumpstart, but read the first lesson again
Game 2
After my crushing defeat, I thought I'd go ahead and give it a shot a couple days later. The deadline was extended, so I saw myself having a real opportunity to get a tick on my Gauntlet slot with this one. I chose Elizabeth as my leader this time, to help round out my nations for QM. My opponents were Gandhi, Cyrus, Asoka, Fredrick, Catherine, Qin Shi Huang. I did a mapfinder til I found what I thought to be a good spot. Grasslands as far as the eye can see, forests abound, a few bonus resources, and rivers flowing every which way. This was off to a good start!
After expanding to about 5 cities, I started building upwards. I was quite disturbed at how hard it was to keep control of my health/happiness, but then again I was pretty bonus-lacking in most of my other cities. It took a *lot* of diplomacy and gifting and such, but I managed to make it through the whole game without getting DOWed. I was quite amazed, seeing as I had a border with just about every civ on the map.
Income was quite good, because for most of the game 5 out of the 7 nations were Hindi. This was quite a good thing for me, since I founded it
In the end, Gandhi won the space race by 20 turns. I just didn't have the pure research and production power he did, partly becuase I only had 5 cities and partly because I didn't have aluminum until about 10 turns before he finished.
Lessons learned:
- 5-6 cities is good before I get a decent economy, but I need more to stay competitive later on
- Health/Happiness resources: don't give them away
- Founding a religion and giving it to everyone on the map is definitely a good thing
- Hereditary rule can be quite handy late-game
The next try....
Does anyone have any tips for my next go at it? I'll take another look through this thread, but I have a feeling applying my lessons won't be enough without a little luck.
Thanks for reading!
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
I think you've documented some excellent learnings.
Some more thoughts...Spacerace is all about rapid tech pace. This means focusing on commerce from the start. For HOF tries, I set mapfinder to save maps with one commerce resource (gold or gems) and one food resource (farm resources are best, but I take pasture as well). The early commerce resource launches your tech pace. Once I have a worker (built or stolen), I improve the food tile, then mine the commerce, then start building cottages like crazy.
I've been using CS slingshot to get early bureacracy to get my capital humming. One of my early cities (2nd or 3rd) is usually set up as a great person farm. Most of the rest become commerce cities. Early GS's provide academies in my primary commerce cities.
The nice thing about focusing on commerce is it also allows more aggresive early expansion. If you've gotten a good start on cottages, then you have enough income to build (or take) a few extra cities. I think you need to get to at least 10, a few more would be better. If you can get there without war, all the better (every hammer spent on a military unit is a hammer not spent on advancing research). However, I've been finding I generally need one war.
The diplomacy challenge is not too bad, although it can be a little dicey initially. If you get to a point where you are very weak, an AI might come and try to swat you. This means you must build a few units, even if you are playing 100% peaceful. I select peaceful AI's to minimize this risk. I also depend on my tech lead... I will take a risk and go with mimimal military knowing I can quickly spin up superior units if I'm attacked. However, this is a fine balance. In my last game, Cathy managed to pillage me a little before I could run her off.
I submit to all demands except "stop trading with..." and "take my religion". Once I discover liberalism, I'll start gifting techs to all the AI's. This generally keeps me on good terms with most. FYI, I do not gift before liberalism to delay their getting there. By slowing their pace down to liberalism, I can delay researching it myself. I'm usually using liberalism for physics or electricity.
RE: Religion... even though I'm always first to Confusianism, I never switch. By staying religion free, I keep out of trouble with AI's. Besides, I always switch to free religion after liberalism so I can get the 10% research bonus.
Hyppy
Chieftain
Are they any specific techs you suggest beelining for, or avoiding?
From what it looks like, it seems like a good idea to start off with pottery and bronze, then beelining Alpha/CoL, then Bureacracy, then getting Liberalism as soon as or before another civ can research it. Obviously education is a big one, as well. Can you suggest any in between?
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
I tend to go:
- Needed worker techs (Ag, AH)
- Pottery
- The techs up through priesthood to start Oracle
- Writing, COL
- CS (from Oracle)
- Alpha - trade for Bronze and Iron so I know where to site later cities
- Metal/Machinery - in case I need macemen to aquire some cities
At this point, it gets more situtional. If nobody has researched Alpha, I'll hold off Lit and go right for Edu. I really want to start Universities asap so I can get Oxford in my capital. Eventually, I go back and get Lit for the GLib. However, Glib isn't a huge priority since it obsoletes pretty fast. I will usually research currency although sometimes I can trade for it. I also try to research Philo before anyone else has even started it. My theory is that once I discover Taoism, the AI's lose interest in Philo. As Philo is a prerequisite for Liberalism, I believe this buys me a ton of time on Liberalism. So, I've stopped trading COL for anything, this allows me to pick up Philo at a leisurely pace.
At this point, I've been going for Democracy and switching to Emancipation to speed town growth. I then get Astronomy for Observatories. From here, I head straight for Computers to build Labs, keeping a close eye on the AI's progress towards Liberalism. Once they are within a tech, I pull the trigger on Liberalism. After I get Computers, my tech path is very situational.
So... this is one person's strategy, I doubt it is optimal. For example, a more aggressive play would be to skip Metal and Machinery and beeline for the three research building techs (Edu, Astronomy, Computers). Also, I'm not sure I should be diverting to Democracy. I'll be curious to hear if WastinTime's or Alraun's tech path were anything like this.
But, this rough gameplan has been putting me in the early 1800's consistently.
One last thought... play a financial leader.
Hyppy
Chieftain
I played earlier this morning, lost then went to bed quite angry (I'm night shift). *sigh*, another game in the dust, another loss to othe AI for space by, oh, 30 turns or so.
So, I'm at work tonight, and browsing through the forums. It hit me.
I made the most moronic of newbie mistakes, and I think that it would explain why I'm having such a hard time.
I wouldn't trade resources.
I didn't grasp the concept that having 2 rice isn't any more useful than having 1 rice.
When the AI would attempt to trade me some corn for the extra rice, I would look and see "Oh, I already get health from my rice, why bother?"
Who says HOF isn't a learning experience??
I have 6 more days to try, since I'm leaving for vacation after New Years. If I can squeeze this and the minor out, I should be able to make my way into Quattro by the next update.
then went to bed quite angry (I'm night shift). *sigh*, another game in the dust, another loss to othe AI for space by, oh, 30 turns or so.So, I'm at work tonight, and browsing through the forums. It hit me.
I made the most moronic of newbie mistakes, and I think that it would explain why I'm having such a hard time.I wouldn't trade resources.
I didn't grasp the concept that having 2 rice isn't any more useful than having 1 rice.
When the AI would attempt to trade me some corn for the extra rice, I would look and see "Oh, I already get health from my rice, why bother?"Who says HOF isn't a learning experience??
I have 6 more days to try, since I'm leaving for vacation after New Years. If I can squeeze this and the minor out, I should be able to make my way into Quattro by the next update.
My first attempt didn't do so well. I overextended my empire when I decided to take out Shaka. Then, during the process of getting my economy back online I left a large part of my army near what remained of Shaka and his neighbors, knowing how much they didn't like me. The other side of my empire was rather bare so the surprise attack by Ragnor pretty much ended it.
Several bad decisions I know I made:
My 2nd attempt is going much better. The only problem I'm seeing is that in keeping my neighbors pleased with me and keeping my economy thriving I'm pulling a long my opponents with me. The top four AI's are all within about 20 or so points of each other, and sometimes within the same of me. I'm going to need to adjust my neighbors some before we get too far into the game. Currently I'm just about to Liberalism.
Several bad decisions I know I made:
- Knowing it was a prince game I treated it like a chieftain or noble, thinking I was able to extend my empire as much as I did and be able to rebound quickly. Apparently its been a while since I've played the middle levels.
- Switching religions too early. Korea, my immediate neighbor to the south, was Buddhist and a trade partner. I switched to Buddhism early to boost my rep with Korea and the rest of the world didn't.
- Should not have expanded in a line straight out from my empire, no matter how good the cities are. Made it tougher to defend and increased maintenance costs a lot.
- I don't know why, but I left most of my units on one end of a very long empire. Should have (and don't know why I didn't) balanced my troops out more.
My 2nd attempt is going much better. The only problem I'm seeing is that in keeping my neighbors pleased with me and keeping my economy thriving I'm pulling a long my opponents with me. The top four AI's are all within about 20 or so points of each other, and sometimes within the same of me. I'm going to need to adjust my neighbors some before we get too far into the game. Currently I'm just about to Liberalism.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
At this level, the AI should not be able to beat you to spaceship. My guess is you are not totally focusing on tech, but its hard to tell without looking at the game. I think one of the secrets to successful CIV at higher levels is single minded focus on the victory condition. Extraneous wonders, extra military, unnecessary buildings all detract from your goal.
If you want to post a save file from your last game, I'd be happy to take a quick look at it... better yet, post two if you have them (one from the end of the game, one from mid-game).
/Edit: Cross posted with Methos. My reply was to Hyppy.
If you want to post a save file from your last game, I'd be happy to take a quick look at it... better yet, post two if you have them (one from the end of the game, one from mid-game).
/Edit: Cross posted with Methos. My reply was to Hyppy.
Hyppy
Chieftain
I haven't kept any of the losing games, but if I fail this next try I'll definitely post it so everyone can have a good chuckle
I have a feeling if I lose again, after getting so close these last couple tries and after all the advice, I might as well find a new hobby
I have a feeling if I lose again, after getting so close these last couple tries and after all the advice, I might as well find a new hobby
CliftonBazaar
Prince
I attempted the Vanilla Gauntlet (Major 6?) the day before Christmas - and lost by 3 turns 
With the extension I'll give it another go now.
With the extension I'll give it another go now.
Hyppy
Chieftain
Hahahaha I did it!!! 
1913 victory, not shabby for someone as green as me, I think. Hawk, THANK YOU! Your help was amazing... with some of your tips, and what I learned about happiness/health, I was able to stay 2nd in score the entire game.
w00t!!!
1913 victory, not shabby for someone as green as me, I think. Hawk, THANK YOU! Your help was amazing... with some of your tips, and what I learned about happiness/health, I was able to stay 2nd in score the entire game.w00t!!!
Happy New Year. It's not 2007 it's...
1709 AD
I went back to Liz, but I still think Washington is better.
I had Marble and Stone in my capitol (with deer, Sheep, and gold). Almost everything played out exactly as I hoped. I didn't get any G. Artists and just the one Prohpet. Otherwise all scientists. Sadly the last 3 GP were useless scientists. I wanted that golden age for the finish, but got the last scientist with only about 20% chance.
I got to 19 cities. That's a lot for me. I needed 2 wars for that. I just took several of Roosevelt's best, then later took a few more of his.
When I put the Oxford U. up in 155 AD I knew it was going to be a good one.
I didn't have any really good city other than the capitol, so only one academy . I rarely do more of those on the Highlands map.
I'm tempted to try Washington for a 1600's finish, but I hope I can resist. Maybe it should be my new year's resolution to break the addiction again.
1709 AD
I went back to Liz, but I still think Washington is better.
I had Marble and Stone in my capitol (with deer, Sheep, and gold). Almost everything played out exactly as I hoped. I didn't get any G. Artists and just the one Prohpet. Otherwise all scientists. Sadly the last 3 GP were useless scientists. I wanted that golden age for the finish, but got the last scientist with only about 20% chance.
I got to 19 cities. That's a lot for me. I needed 2 wars for that. I just took several of Roosevelt's best, then later took a few more of his.
When I put the Oxford U. up in 155 AD I knew it was going to be a good one.
I didn't have any really good city other than the capitol, so only one academy . I rarely do more of those on the Highlands map.
I'm tempted to try Washington for a 1600's finish, but I hope I can resist. Maybe it should be my new year's resolution to break the addiction again.
I launched in 1936 which isnt very good, though Im still happy with it. This game completes my Machiavelli and Gauntlet categories and knocks off the Prince requirement. I now have three categories completed!
I didnt really want to deal with a large empire so I only had six cities up until Steam Power. When Coal was found just outside of my border I built a seventh city to grab it for the railroads. Even though I was about half the size of most of the AIs I still held the tech lead the whole game.
Oddly enough everyone (except Peter) stayed pleased with each other the entire game and the only wars were the ones I fought in or paid someone else to start. I attacked Peter in two separate wars due to the aluminum located in his southern territory (me being north of him). The first war put me close, but the war weariness was becoming enough of a problem I took peace for ten turns before continuing my push. I probably could have done it the first time as it only took about four more turns, but I didnt need it just yet, so didnt see a problem with waiting. Not wanting a long war I paid Victoria to go to war with him too my second time through. Weird thing was, for the price of one tech she was willing to declare on Peter and Asoka, so I figured why not.
The rest of the game was just heading for the shuttle. I was a little worried about the UN due to my small size, but everyone (except Peter and my opponent Hatty) voted for me, so it wasnt a problem at all.
I only wanted to complete this one to finish my Gauntlet category, so honestly didnt really try that hard. Not a good way to go into a game IMO.
I didnt really want to deal with a large empire so I only had six cities up until Steam Power. When Coal was found just outside of my border I built a seventh city to grab it for the railroads. Even though I was about half the size of most of the AIs I still held the tech lead the whole game.
Oddly enough everyone (except Peter) stayed pleased with each other the entire game and the only wars were the ones I fought in or paid someone else to start. I attacked Peter in two separate wars due to the aluminum located in his southern territory (me being north of him). The first war put me close, but the war weariness was becoming enough of a problem I took peace for ten turns before continuing my push. I probably could have done it the first time as it only took about four more turns, but I didnt need it just yet, so didnt see a problem with waiting. Not wanting a long war I paid Victoria to go to war with him too my second time through. Weird thing was, for the price of one tech she was willing to declare on Peter and Asoka, so I figured why not.
The rest of the game was just heading for the shuttle. I was a little worried about the UN due to my small size, but everyone (except Peter and my opponent Hatty) voted for me, so it wasnt a problem at all.
I only wanted to complete this one to finish my Gauntlet category, so honestly didnt really try that hard. Not a good way to go into a game IMO.
I've completed the game for Warlords too. Slower than I had in Vanilla (1875AD instead of 1848AD) quite against the trend. I had fun though, I teamed up with Augustus Ceasar who had Vassilized my neighbours. This didn't work quite as good as it did with Cyrus. Auggy decided to have a three turn anarchy when I had expected him to finish Life Support the same turn as I would the Engine. 
Research was too slow in the beginning of the game, I need to do some research myself to really apporach the standard that is shown here!
correction: Actually checking my submissions my Vanilla date was 1890AD.... ... I blame yesterdays' champagne... 
So Warlords does seem to be a bit quicker.
Research was too slow in the beginning of the game, I need to do some research myself to really apporach the standard that is shown here!
correction: Actually checking my submissions my Vanilla date was 1890AD....
... I blame yesterdays' champagne... So Warlords does seem to be a bit quicker.
Misotu
King
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2006
- Messages
- 934
Well, I've submitted 1780 on Vanilla. It went OK - not a great starting position but I wanted to try a new strategy, which turned out much better than my (many) previous attempts. Looking at the posts here, I think it's necessary to fight to get a better date. Not my forte But 1780 will be ok if the game is accepted
But 1780 will be ok if the game is accepted
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
Outstanding!
I'm glad I haven't wasted my time making another run at this...
When the clock runs out on the gauntlet, would you mind sharing an overview of how you accomplished this so fast? My overall strategy must be suboptimal, I can't imagine I can beat this time. I posted my rough tech path in an earlier post, would be curious to hear if you go a different route or if you are just faster getting your civ off the ground.
Damn... I just looked at the standings. I've dropped to fourth! Wonder if I should give it another try. Urgh... I was planning another run at the chieftan minor, not sure there is time for both.
Thanks Hawk, I'd be happy to share my strategy and tech path when it's over. I've already given a few other tips (like fewer Academies, optimum # of cities, and my preferred leader--Washington over Liz, etc.)
Where are the standings posted? I looked at the HOF gauntlet page, but the table is empty.
Where are the standings posted? I looked at the HOF gauntlet page, but the table is empty.
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