G-Major 9: February Vanilla/Warlords Combo

[Planitia]

If you read what he wrote again, I'm pretty sure he didn't kill the indians, he just replaced them with other Civs (Wang and Churchill)

Gosh, yes, that's exactly what I did. The thought of going to war on this level is frightening - even against pacifists like Ghandi!

The reason I decided to not use the Indian CIVs as opponents is that they seemed to me to be far too good at fast expanding/teching and seem to like beelining for MM. I was having so much trouble getting to MM first (or just getting there first only for one of the Indians to build the UN) that I figured I'd maximise my chances of building the UN first and think about actually getting the vote second.

I think I am gonna leave it at this game now for this gauntlet. I couldn't get to sleep last night after spending too much time on CIV! Better get out the house more...

I wonder what finish date WastinTime will put up? I have to say I got almost all of my ideas for this gauntlet from reading his posts and replies to others... Cheers!

 

[Dracandross]

Whop almost got it this time. Missed liberalism but got physics anyway. Im used to play perm alliances on (which is not good idea in this game though). I got Un nicely around 1200 but Mansa was way bigger than everyone else and Frederic liked him alot more than me. So couldnt pull votes off (well mistake was that I shoulda first picked free relig proposition to make all lose religs, I was unable to trade them for free relig). Also Mansa had perm alliance tech ready so i was affraid that if he pulls it out with Fred as I can't get his votes anyway I picked PA with mansa. Good for me, but Mansa had a war with Liz and that made me lose Liz's vote along with number 2 AI. So no UN this time either. But for the bright side, I may be able to pull of space win, that shoulda outdo at least future starts . At least now we're few techs ahead of everyone else and going fast for internet for the skipped techs & fusion for largest part.

Also noted that if AI has some good food resource free, you shoulda trade it quickly or it will be traded to some stupid AI instead. I had extra gold that I had traded for another lux pretheatre. After few turns Id been able to change that gold for wheat but it was gone. 2 health mistake, ouch.

I just love this gauntlet, learned alot again. Shoulda have more time to play (or finish this one soon), Id like to try another shot for the minor got just 470ad or so with first shot. It seemed nice too.

-Dracandross

 

[WastinTime]

Just noticed that Wasting is using just minimum numbers of opponents on each map. I thought using more makes them grow slower and helps you but seems im wrong.
-Dracandross

This is an excellent idea and I used it on smaller maps. The only reason I used the minimum number on stanard size is because I knew that group would vote for me. Any additional civs are harder to guarantee the vote. I only played each size map once or twice to get it on the high score table. Now the that this competition is on, it would probably be very wise to take a few risks and add at least 1 extra civ. Not only should it slow them down like you thought, but you also have more people to trade with.

 

[KMadCandy]

Gosh, yes, that's exactly what I did. The thought of going to war on this level is frightening - even against pacifists like Ghandi!
...

I think I am gonna leave it at this game now for this gauntlet. I couldn't get to sleep last night after spending too much time on CIV! Better get out the house more...

well yeah the thought scared me realllllllllllly bad! clearly even the concept of diety difficulty level induces a level of fright in me that dumbs down my ability to interpret posts.

not sleeping and too much civ, i can totally relate. my house would be so much cleaner if sid meier had chosen some other career. this has been true since civ2.

i'm playing an OCC game atm, altho not for the gauntlet, it's completely different (settler level for my time victory checkbox on QM table). even at that level i've learned quite a bit about how OCC is different from other games. and it has been ridiculously fun permanently harassing but not killing off my poor victim.

 

[a space oddity]

I've tried twice: the first time I had raging barbs on thinking the Deity AI would take care of them and be slowed down a bit at the same time.... bad idea.. Even though I started on a hill and my warrior survived the first wave of warriors, the first Archer ended the game.

The second time seemed to go OK for a while, but Asoka turned on me before Alphabet. I had Open Borders with everyone and no religion to piss anyone of. I guess I should build more Warriors to project some semblance of power.

'twas Liz on Warlords, inland sea, BTW.

[whimpmode]I'll have one stab at the minor before trying again I think... [/whimpmode]

 

[Jean d´Eath]

damn i miss cs-slingshot every single time by 2 or 3 turns and consequently miss liberalism by around 3 turns in the end and get beat to the un.... and that 4 times in a row

 

[Dracandross]

Finally I managed to pull through it! Scoring second at least for now. I had quite decent start with ~10floods+ivory+gold+gold+corn to make city grow size 6 premonarchy. Pulled out confu, liberalism and physics too. I made mistake when picking liberalism tech though. I took printing press as I had 20 rounds or so left for oxford, thought its more useful to get +1 cottages meanwhile i research astro (was about 20rnds). I forgot that AIs research always press first, so I coulda traded it quite cheaply later when Id researched it somewhat and still coulda hold for astro. Got 1 scientist and 1 engineer. All voted for me. Now for settler...

-Dracandross

 

[DeafDolphin]

First attempted bombed. Got beat to the UN by at least 50 turns from what I can tell, despite having 3 floodplains and 3 gold, using one city challenge rules as Vicky. Got beat to Oracle and Liberalism. I conclude I'll have to forget them and just go after the techs I need.

I think the OCC robbed me of any chance at winning this one. Hrm. I'll have to try again. Maybe using Warlords this time, Vicky again (Imperialistic and Financial, lets me at least get some more settlers up and running faster. I think 5 cities would be optimal.

Edit: so much for Warlords Vicky. *wry grin* Should've known that wouldn't have worked. Still got crowded out. Eh. I'll wait for the next Major in the hopes it's a tad easier to handle than this one.

 

[jesusin]

Not only should it slow them down like you thought, but you also have more people to trade with.

If you want to secure a victory, then it is ok to try to slow them down. But if you are trying to win the Gauntlet, you should do the opposite, help the AI.

My second attempt has gone much better. I wanted to try high seas. I am sorry I did, with such a good start. I had 3 Gems in the fat cross. I was so far ahead of the AI that I had to wait for them to be able to trade. Some data:

Victoria. Alphabet 1990BC. Academy 1150BC. CS 880BC. Education 445BC. Liberalism+Astronomy in 235BC. Oxford 55BC. 90bpt 1000BC. 400bpt 1AD. 700bpt at the end.

When I had Education they had just researched MC. What a waste! I was so long not running an engineer that when I was able to hire him, Oxford was already available. I even had to delay Globe Theater in order to maximize GE chances.

Two turns before Liberalism I traded my monopoly on Paper for Compass and the next turn traded my monopoly on Education for Optics. Had they had those techs some turns earlier, I could have researched Astronomy myself, using Liberalism for a more expensive free tech.

After Liberalism, nobody new what Printing Press was, so I had to research it myself, instead of trading for it.

All this reasons justify my idea of helping the AI to research faster. I recommend low waters, minimum number of AIs, good researchers like Hatty, Gandhi or Musa.


Thank you, WastinTime, for the description of your OCC strategy. I have learned a lot. I previously thought this way:
“I have the secretary, let’s call a victory election. I hope someone votes for me”
Now, I finished the game this way:
“(twenty turns before) I prefer Washington to be my rival, I’ll stop trading resources with Fred and I’ll gift them all to Washington so that his population grows”
“I have the secretary, if I call a victory election Fred will vote for Washington and I will be 9 votes short. Becoming Buddhist won’t help, since a tie in relations would lead to an abstention. I’ll pass Free Religion and I will win the next election, in 4 turns”.
What a difference!

Following WastinTime advice, I won’t tell my victory date. Anyway, it is not really competitive. The affair between Fred and Wash cost me 4 turns. Slow AI research cost me 12 turns. Trading for both Engineering and GunPowder cost me 4 turns, since the free GS became almost useless. Playing in weekdays (multiple short sessions, lack of consistency, stupid mistakes due to tiredness) instead of weekends cost me 6 turns (I resisted Monday and Tuesday, but my hands trembled so bad on Wednesday that I simply had to play).

I guess the winner will have a sub 1000AD date. I will tell no names, but both Russian citizens and wild black beasts have good chances.

 

[Dracandross]

First attempted bombed. Got beat to the UN by at least 50 turns from what I can tell, despite having 3 floodplains and 3 gold, using one city challenge rules as Vicky. Got beat to Oracle and Liberalism. I conclude I'll have to forget them and just go after the techs I need.

I think the OCC robbed me of any chance at winning this one. Hrm. I'll have to try again. Maybe using Warlords this time, Vicky again (Imperialistic and Financial, lets me at least get some more settlers up and running faster. I think 5 cities would be optimal.

Edit: so much for Warlords Vicky. *wry grin* Should've known that wouldn't have worked. Still got crowded out. Eh. I'll wait for the next Major in the hopes it's a tad easier to handle than this one.

1) I skipped oracle right away, liberalism is nice but not must to win same with physics (all help though)
2) You need lots of food squares (very meny floods or few food resources) to get population over 16. I think gold is bad, it wont give food. Last game i settled on one gold and mined next when happiness capped (gold city gives 2 2 3 compared to hill 2 2 1 or any other 2 1 1)
3) OCC is very good, you dont have to waste time on growing, it really slows you down
4) I think vanilla is better as more opps have good favourite civic & you dont need math to get cs
5) For one failed game you have just tried to see how it works, go for few more and youll see... Come on you cant expect to win with new strategy on one game. Took me about 10 to get it right, always something bashed. Its all about starting location though. Get that 3gems start!!
6) For easier opps pick frederic, hatty, roos, mansa, wash, eliz, maybe cyrus but its not that good. Gandhi & asoka will try to beat you on mass media others wont. Aim to make hatty your opp and youll win surely if you get MM.

-Dracandross

 

[Lexad]

gold city gives 2 2 3

Riverside plains hill gold city, to be precise. A general rule is city tile gives food = max(2; bare tile), hammers = max(1; bare tile), commerce = max(1; bare tile), where bare tile means the relevant yield from the tile the city is located on without any improvements or terrain features (forest, jungke, flood plains, fallout).

 

[WastinTime]

My first try went well. I tried a new kind of start -- coastal with 2 Clams. I started the game by building a workboat instead of a worker (I think it was better that way.) I had a few too many water squares and not enough towns. I had 2 gems, but they were on hills. Then stone and banana. My start was a little slower because of the workboat, but I still managed Oxford in 40 BC. It think the shortage of towns made my endgame slower.

The 1190 AD quick speed high score will be beaten, but I'll be shocked if someone breaks 1000 AD as jesusin predicts.

 

[DeafDolphin]

Tried again, forsaking the Oracle and Liberalism. Missed Mass Media (and the UN) by 2 turns to Roosevelt (Damn him!). At least it was an educational game. Used Vicky, 6 floodplains, a gold, corn and wheat. Didn't do too shoddy.

 

[Thrar]

I think I'm missing something on the AI's voting behavior. In my current game, Washington is my opponent, and Fred is at +10 (11-1) to him, while at +13 (no negatives) to me. Friendly to both of us, for a long time already. Yet, he consistently votes for Washington!
Can anyone tell me the reason for this? What else is important, other than attitude?

 

[ori]

What else is important, other than attitude?

Nothing else is important - but the visible attitude is just about half of what you get - have a look here for a complete list - basically you can only definitely calculate the AI relations to you (using visible information and invisible as defined in the AILeaderheadInfo.xml), in AI vs. AI relations there is an additional random factor which can account for +/- 3 so you can never be absolutely sure...

 

[uwsublime]

Doh... Managed to build UN in 1232AD but only got 309/455 votes... *FINALLY* swung them around to vote me to victory in 1472AD... The leading AI (too big of a lead for me to help another pass him) had +17 and +12 with 2 other AIs and I had really bad relations with the +12 guy, had to swing the +17. Oh well, I'm sure I can go under 1200AD now, just a matter of time...

 

[WastinTime]

Under 1200 AD is not as easy as you may think. I just played another good run with no big mistakes. I did beat the current high score table of 1190 AD, but I don't see going below 1100 AD. I did Liz again. I tried Vicky earlier, but I don't think she's working for me. It would help a lot of you could get your hands on wheat, corn and rice. I only had corn, banana this game and traded for cow, sheep.

Here's a little trick that helps me get wheat occasionally...
If you have an extra resource (like 2 gems). It's tempting to trade it, but if you can hold off, it might pay off. This way when they hook up a 2nd wheat, they might come to you and ask for the gems. They'll never come to you if you don't have an extra resource they want. So unless you check the trade screen every turn, they'll probably trade it away to someone else.

 

[uwsublime]

Good tip... I know 1200AD is not easy to beat on OCC, but I'm not playing OCC. Not that it will be easy my way either, but I basically had a 1250ish win last game, I was 1 AI short of winning the vote...

 

[WastinTime]

Great! I was hoping someone would play non-OCC. I think it might have a chance to win but I wasn't sure anyone was even trying.

 

[uwsublime]

So, Elizabeth would probably be optimal for a multiple city strategy as well, but it is *very* hard to expand to 6 cities necessary for Oxford prior to the AI claiming all of the land. I've had the best luck thus far with Huayna and an early Quechua rush followed by a strong CE... I think Elizabeth may be able to beat my Huayna times even w/o Oxford, but if you can manage to claim 6 cities with her life would be good. It is very hard to play a map large enough to do this w/o the AI completely running away with techs due to having a lot of land.