You might want to check the option about disabling biased starting positions. I think it helps with that and getting the same neighbors all the time.
G-Major I
- Thread starter Ozbenno
- Start date
I was actually doing that, and it kept giving me coastal starts.
Try Great Plains. Wheat, marble, incense, wine, cows and rivers seem plentiful. And you will have to be very unlucky to start on the coast
I finished on turn 220 (1550 AD). It is still being checked.
I finaly had a (very) good start. 4 wine, marble and a river. I hardly made any mistakes, so I'm pretty convinced it can't be done much faster. My tactic:
- Push on RA's from the start
- Beeline in this order: Education, Astronomy, Archiology, Metal Casting, Machinery (for Ironworks), Acoustics, Radio/Telegraph
- My second GE (third if you count the tradition one) finished around turn 160 together with Radio/Telegraph
- I build Museum/Opera house/Hermitage after Ironworks and Sistine after Cristo
- I build Oracle and not Great Library
Anyone want to know more details?
I finaly had a (very) good start. 4 wine, marble and a river. I hardly made any mistakes, so I'm pretty convinced it can't be done much faster. My tactic:
- Push on RA's from the start
- Beeline in this order: Education, Astronomy, Archiology, Metal Casting, Machinery (for Ironworks), Acoustics, Radio/Telegraph
- My second GE (third if you count the tradition one) finished around turn 160 together with Radio/Telegraph
- I build Museum/Opera house/Hermitage after Ironworks and Sistine after Cristo
- I build Oracle and not Great Library
Anyone want to know more details?
Robert Smith
Prince
Did u skip Policy Tradition and went for Liberty/Patronage/Freedom/Rationalism/Piety?
Did u play as Siam?
Did u skip Policy Tradition and went for Liberty/Patronage/Freedom/Rationalism/Piety?
Did u play as Siam?
No, I didn't. I skipped Patronage. I indeed played as Siam
It's interesting. So how many cultured CS did you ally before FS and before CR?
I'm not good at abbreviations yet. What is FS? CR is cristo I assume. Around turn 130 I signed my final RA. Before that I had no allies, every penny went to RA's. After that I started allying a total of 4 cultural allies (I did not find more). I probably had 2 or 3 around the time Cristo finished.
Martin Alvito
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That's more or less what I did in the turn 233 game, less the Oracle. You also got to Cristo and a Broadcast Tower about 20 turns before I did. (The AIs were very broke, and I couldn't carry more than about four RAs at a time as a result.)
I've found a few refinements, but I haven't been able to have it all come together just yet.
Oh, sorry: FS - Free Speech.
I see. Yes, that's pretty curious (considering your "peak" culture in the end is ~40 points/turn less than with a "generic" 6(+/-1) cultured city-states map).
It looks like having Hermitage earlier could be very critical. Just to compare: this week I finished three games (one on turn 234 and two on turn 232) using three different policy tree combinations (a: "tradition+liberty", b: "tradition+commerce", c: "liberty+piety" - with "patronage/freedom/rationalism" being the rest). Telegraph/Radio around turn 160 is quite common (e.g. I got them on turns 156/157/162 even without Scientific Revolution: just RAs + Oxford University + 4 Great Scientists), so what I do really in a vastly different way is that Hermitage vs. Cristo thing:
1. I build the Cristo the usual way (I assume you burnt a GE for it, did you?)
2. I rush-buy OperaHouse/Museum/BroadcastTower and start Hermitage after the Redentor (it's not that I believe it's more optimal but I just never have time to build this stuff before the CR - usually at turn 140..160 I'm only finishing IronWorks and Oxford while focusing on city growth to retain descent production with all those specialists set later). So it's only turn 170..175 when I can get closer to the peak culture rate.
Ooh... a lot of food for thought... tons of new ideas to try. Thanks for the info!
Martin Alvito
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Early Hermitage is vital.
You really don't want to make four Great Scientists. Landmarks become strong once you stack the multipliers high enough, and you have to burn a GE on The Louvre.
You really don't want to make four Great Scientists. Landmarks become strong once you stack the multipliers high enough, and you have to burn a GE on The Louvre.
Yes. Though I'm still under impression that there's some "breakpoint" for it - i.e. "some" turn before Cristo when too much culture can have negative effect (by adopting too much policies for the high price - I can't be sure - it's hard to say without some tricky calculations - but just intuitively, no?)
Yes, that's what I did in my two last T232 games (after your tip
). As for GS - do you suggest to use Scientific Revolution instead or just more RAs? I would say that +/- 1 GS or RA or GA are not so critical and it's more like situation dependent. That's where Marcelvv's game is the interesting show-case: the lack of at least two cultured CS allies is -60 (Siam) culture points while the lack of 1 GA landmark is just -26. (In my last game I had seven cultural allies and still... 
). But sure, with earlier Hermitage, a GE for Cristo instead of GS could be more valuable... (probably double or even triple GS/GE/GA bulb is the most optimal?) But in general, I would say it's just several (just a bit) different tactics each having its pros and cons (for example by not going Patronage you lose more money (you could use for RAs) than you save by going to Scientific Revolution, with earlier (right after Free Speech) Democracy and Scholasticism you can cover at least 2 RAs (with +1 GS and extra beakers), and vice-versa: for just 350
you can get a "free" GE (i.e. by replacing GS with RA) etc. etc.).Interesting, I start to think we will see yet more exciting finishes before the gaunglet ends (Honestly I thought T220 is the limit but now it looks like there's more room for improvement)).
Martin Alvito
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My sense is that anything that accelerates reaching Broadcast Towers is a good thing. CR isn't quite as time-sensitive. Taking Rationalism removes the need for a GS and the Porcelain Tower, and if your build order can't handle those then producing them is a poor idea.
It may be worthwhile to ditch the first GS altogether (and perhaps the Porcelain Tower as well) and pop out a pair of Engineers and a pair of Artists at the 100/300 breakpoints. If you get to Metal Casting and Economics fast enough, that shouldn't screw up your specialist usage too badly.
Maximizing
output rather than Research Agreements before Free Speech and Cristo Redentor is a bad idea, because you need a lot more total points than a player that gets those swiftly. That's why Marcelvv's strategy works - he didn't take a lot of policies early in order to maximize early Science output, then bought them all at 50% off with full production multipliers at the end.
That said, you still want a building like Hermitage ASAP, because it has a huge modifier and it's worth increasing the cost of future policies to get 60-100 per turn now. You're always going to come out ahead building Hermitage; a theoretical breakpoint exists, but you're just not going to reach it if you're putting CR up on turn 160.
It's an interesting game because there are a lot of variables; it's maddening because AI cash output matters a great deal, and you never know what you're going to get there.
It may be worthwhile to ditch the first GS altogether (and perhaps the Porcelain Tower as well) and pop out a pair of Engineers and a pair of Artists at the 100/300 breakpoints. If you get to Metal Casting and Economics fast enough, that shouldn't screw up your specialist usage too badly.
Maximizing
output rather than Research Agreements before Free Speech and Cristo Redentor is a bad idea, because you need a lot more total points than a player that gets those swiftly. That's why Marcelvv's strategy works - he didn't take a lot of policies early in order to maximize early Science output, then bought them all at 50% off with full production multipliers at the end.That said, you still want a building like Hermitage ASAP, because it has a huge modifier and it's worth increasing the cost of future policies to get 60-100
per turn now. You're always going to come out ahead building Hermitage; a theoretical breakpoint exists, but you're just not going to reach it if you're putting CR up on turn 160.It's an interesting game because there are a lot of variables; it's maddening because AI cash output matters a great deal, and you never know what you're going to get there.
I agree with Martin that you shouldn't make 4 scientists. My great persons in that game:
- GE from meritocracy -> stonehenge
- GE (for Louvre) + GS + GA simultaniously (Martin, thanks for that tip)
- GE (for CR)
- 3 GA's (two landmarks, last one for golden age)
My theory: prioritize having FS and CR asap, but also maximize culture before FS/CR (don't delay Hermitage). I don't have proof, but that is my intuition as a mathematician.
You have to build a lot, so hammers are also important, therefore I prioritized Ironworks over Museum/OH/Hermitage.
Never spend hammers on science wonders (GL and Porcelain tower), you have better things to build and RA's are relatively cheap. In order to get enough science I believe you need scientific revulotion (also because you cannot block the correct techs in Industrial era).
By the way, I managed to get Democracy before going into Rationalism.
In the end I had about 575 culture per turn.
I'm starting to believe that Martin's idea for two pair of GA/GE at 100 and 300 mark can be better than the GS.
- GE from meritocracy -> stonehenge
- GE (for Louvre) + GS + GA simultaniously (Martin, thanks for that tip)
- GE (for CR)
- 3 GA's (two landmarks, last one for golden age)
My theory: prioritize having FS and CR asap, but also maximize culture before FS/CR (don't delay Hermitage). I don't have proof, but that is my intuition as a mathematician.
You have to build a lot, so hammers are also important, therefore I prioritized Ironworks over Museum/OH/Hermitage.
Never spend hammers on science wonders (GL and Porcelain tower), you have better things to build and RA's are relatively cheap. In order to get enough science I believe you need scientific revulotion (also because you cannot block the correct techs in Industrial era).
By the way, I managed to get Democracy before going into Rationalism.
In the end I had about 575 culture per turn.
I'm starting to believe that Martin's idea for two pair of GA/GE at 100 and 300 mark can be better than the GS.
vexing
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that's what my intuition initially told me too, but when you consider more it's just plain wrong. you're always best off maximizing culture as soon as possible. the only time to change is if you can get a last policy in on the turn cristo is going to finish.
avoiding gaining policies so they can cost 1/3rd less later doesn't help
Hehe, OK, you finally convinced me . I just did some basic very rough calculations - indeed, you always benefit from maximizing your culture before CR (and before FS - assuming you're in the right era) - even immediate jump to 600 cppt on turn you hit Renaissance always wins.
. I just did some basic very rough calculations - indeed, you always benefit from maximizing your culture before CR (and before FS - assuming you're in the right era) - even immediate jump to 600 cppt on turn you hit Renaissance always wins.Nice! I stopped trying, but mayby I should start again...
Incence/wine would have brought you in the 210's.
Martin Alvito
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Turn 220 in a poor start. (4 Cotton, Gold, lot of Desert tiles) Did find El Dorado first...on turn 52? (three tiles from one AI's Warrior and 5 tiles from another AI's borders, WTH?)
Hasn't been verified. I crashed between turns 141 and 142 and had to reload the autosave. Coincidentally, I also needed to hit about a 70% shot on an RA to dodge Fertilizer a couple of turns later, so we'll see what Denniz makes of it.
The 100/300 concept is hot, although I ended up popping the GE out at 400 after building a Windmill because I just didn't need it at the 300 breakpoint.
Blocking Steel is wise. You have to plan for it as you set up the RA chain.
The Porcelain Tower can be worth your time. I ended up in a real cash mess in the 120s and needed the GS, and I didn't have any more critical builds that I had to delay.
Early Culture prioritization is fine if and only if you aren't giving up more valuable things to do it. Sacrificing growth or RAs is not a good idea. Also, pushing Culture aggressively before FS can screw up your timing on getting Constitution and FS, especially if you end up having to take a pre-Renaissance policy that you don't want.
Getting Democracy before going into Rationalism is a very good idea. That basically yields an extra Great Artist.
You could go real, real low with the right start and some Coal.
Hasn't been verified. I crashed between turns 141 and 142 and had to reload the autosave. Coincidentally, I also needed to hit about a 70% shot on an RA to dodge Fertilizer a couple of turns later, so we'll see what Denniz makes of it.
The 100/300 concept is hot, although I ended up popping the GE out at 400 after building a Windmill because I just didn't need it at the 300 breakpoint.
Blocking Steel is wise. You have to plan for it as you set up the RA chain.
The Porcelain Tower can be worth your time. I ended up in a real cash mess in the 120s and needed the GS, and I didn't have any more critical builds that I had to delay.
Early Culture prioritization is fine if and only if you aren't giving up more valuable things to do it. Sacrificing growth or RAs is not a good idea. Also, pushing Culture aggressively before FS can screw up your timing on getting Constitution and FS, especially if you end up having to take a pre-Renaissance policy that you don't want.
Getting Democracy before going into Rationalism is a very good idea. That basically yields an extra Great Artist.
You could go real, real low with the right start and some Coal.
vexing
knows
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i tend to not plan RA chains, i just sign as i (they) can and write down the finish turn, then plan out techs around it. for these culture games i've been trying to get 4 or 5 classical era signs, using the early one for civil service then the later ones to get to machinery... i think i'll have to have 2 early ones staggered or block on trapping and have an RA finish metal casting so i can block steel
what has your path been like?
oh, and this game is always crashing on me. my gminor game had a crash (hasn't been checked yet - i suspect it is #1 though =p). my 223 win today had 2. i'm not going to submit it, they have enough to check and i know i can do better.
what has your path been like?
oh, and this game is always crashing on me. my gminor game had a crash (hasn't been checked yet - i suspect it is #1 though =p). my 223 win today had 2. i'm not going to submit it, they have enough to check and i know i can do better.
