G-Major I

[hix]

Working on a win here with Songhai. With a strong start, a chivalry rush leads right up to an acoustics beeline, and 4-6 cavalry is enough to roll and puppet 3-4 civs.

Best effort so far is turn 258, but could've easily been pushed had I explored correctly and found the last two cultural CS earlier, along with a few more RA's.

Last game I was able to build the 3 starting wonders, along with all of the essential ones and a few bonus. I guess I gave up one wonder to get the cavalry, the culture from those conquests were a huge part of my output.

When chivalry comes on line seems like a nice window with no extremely essential builds eating up time, and the UA means the ability to buy needed buildings, RA or CS.

Any tips from the elite? This is an undiscussed method that has strong potential.

 

[FiveAces]

I've been following the same tech path and rough build plan as Marcelvv. I have a game now that is looking good, though I am not yet sure if I will get tele/radio around the t160 mark that seems needed for a good result. I am not sure whether that is because I may not be making enough RA's, or because I am not puppeting.

For those with good times, is everybody puppetting, or are some doing this totally peaceful.

Similarly is everybody building only 1 city, or are most with good times founding 2?

 

[Martin Alvito]

i tend to not plan RA chains, i just sign as i (they) can and write down the finish turn, then plan out techs around it.

As long as there's a pause in there somewhere (usually is) and you aren't doubled up in any turn, blocking Steel will work out well. Metal Casting last is best; it's also more or less impossible to guarantee. In the last 220 game I had to hard tech it.

for these culture games i've been trying to get 4 or 5 classical era signs, using the early one for civil service then the later ones to get to machinery... i think i'll have to have 2 early ones staggered or block on trapping and have an RA finish metal casting so i can block steel

what has your path been like?

Not all that dissimilar to Marcelvv, although I also try to pick up Metal Casting and Machinery while I'm waiting on the second wave of RAs. I managed to have seven RAs up by turn 49 (ie: before I found Skillderado), which is a major reason why that game is so fast despite the poor start. The AIs tend to reliably have cash in the early going before they tech Philosophy.

In my experience, the most important things are early growth c5science: and productive capacity), finding everyone quickly enough to sign 200 RAs, and getting to the critical points in the tree (Education/Astronomy, Metal Casting, Machinery, Archaeology, Telegraph/Radio) so that you can put up the critical buildings.

Other minor tricks here and there help.

Any tips from the elite? This is an undiscussed method that has strong potential.

Well, I deliberately wasn't discussing this possibility precisely because it might just work. I say make Chariot Archers and/or Horsemen while you're waiting, upgrade in enemy territory under Open Borders and then let them have it. Be sure to waste Militaristic city-states up to the limit before they start perma-warring you (I think it's three); this is a good way to make enemies and avoid the hit for DoWing adversaries. I think that if you cripple your two nearest neighbors and keep signing Research Agreements with the other five, it should work out well.

All you really want is some cash to get you through that critical period from about turns 80-120 when all the AIs are broke. I think you puppet anything with luxuries and raze the remainder, because Mud Pyramid Mosques are better than Mandate of Heaven.

 

[hix]

I think you puppet anything with luxuries and raze the remainder

I was under the impression that in order to raze a city, you must annex it, therefore raising your needed culture. Has this been fixed?

 

[Martin Alvito]

I was under the impression that in order to raze a city, you must annex it, therefore raising your needed culture. Has this been fixed?

I thought this was fixed a few updates ago, but I haven't played a hardcore warmongering game where Culture was a principal concern in some time.

If you can't raze, then you have to be pretty selective about the cities you conquer.

 

[vexing]

you can initially raze, you can't later.

 

[Marcelvv]

I've been following the same tech path and rough build plan as Marcelvv. I have a game now that is looking good, though I am not yet sure if I will get tele/radio around the t160 mark that seems needed for a good result. I am not sure whether that is because I may not be making enough RA's, or because I am not puppeting.

For those with good times, is everybody puppetting, or are some doing this totally peaceful.

Similarly is everybody building only 1 city, or are most with good times founding 2?

I always have one city and I play friendly to everyone.

 

[vexing]

turn 221 tonight =/ oh well, at least i'm improving
this time it was 3 wine, 1 incense (no marble).
i think that extra 20 - 15ish% production is pretty key, considering at least 3/4ths of the time capital is building wonders.

 

[FiveAces]

@Marcelvv - Thanks I was afraid my playstyle might be fatally flawed.

The question of whether building units and puppetteering is better than playing peacefully is simple in concept but impossible to calculate in advance. In concept, culture lost from the gold and/or hammers invested in the army would be converted into culture lost based on delayed culture production from builds delayed - either directly in the case of builds or allied CS or indirectly through lost research agreements. That would be the army's culture cost. The culture "revenue" would be the culture gained from the puppets, both directly and in the form of accelerated science and gold to either accelerate builds, research agreements, or allied CS.

If the exercise turns a profit, then it is optimal. Unfortunately since you can't tell how much gold science and culture the puppets will produce, it's impossible to calculate beforehand.

That said, I think there are situations where it would be profitable, especially if you have a weak multi-luxury city settled nearby.

 

[Marcelvv]

A more general question to the 220-240 finishers. How do you start?

My starts:
Science: pottery, (mining if mining lux), writing, calender, philosophy
Build: scout, monument, granery, (warrior if nothing better to build), NC (after lib buy)

My gut feeling says this is suboptimal.

 

[Marcelvv]

Not all that dissimilar to Marcelvv, although I also try to pick up Metal Casting and Machinery while I'm waiting on the second wave of RAs. I managed to have seven RAs up by turn 49 (ie: before I found Skillderado), which is a major reason why that game is so fast despite the poor start. The AIs tend to reliably have cash in the early going before they tech Philosophy.

Other minor tricks here and there help.

How do you get the money to sign 7 RA's by turn 49?

Can you elaborate on the minor tricks?

 

[Marcelvv]

Completely different question:
I have Babylon as civ. Can I disable it as opponent, without having to handpick my opponents? One game was excluded because I had Babylon as opponent.

 

[Martin Alvito]

How do you get the money to sign 7 RA's by turn 49?

Sell luxuries for full value or very close to it, be careful about who you sell to when, and have the AIs all get into Classical quickly. Most games will not come together like that irrespective of what you do.

Your start is similar to mine. I sneak a Worker into the early build order if possible, as I want to get those luxuries hooked up before the AIs get Philosophy and go broke. Granary finishes after NC.

Can you elaborate on the minor tricks?

I need a few secrets if I'm going to win this thing!

Completely different question:
I have Babylon as civ. Can I disable it as opponent, without having to handpick my opponents? One game was excluded because I had Babylon as opponent.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=409840

If you aren't handpicking your opponents, you're going to have a very hard time in many games. Some AIs seem to produce more cash than others.

 

[Max M.]

For my new games I use: scout, scout, worker, monument, NC (granary after NC only if I have wheat). Techs: same as you.

 

[vexing]

A more general question to the 220-240 finishers. How do you start?

i prefer scout, monument, scout, nc.
if there are deer or wheat tiles around, i go scout monument granary

i pretty much always tech to writing first to start selling open borders / start nc.

i still don't know which civ opponents are optimal. askia is my favorite, napolean has been working out well in recent games. bismarck has been consistently friendly but broke.

 

[ntr0py]

So here we go... my first Emperor game ever. Turn 311. Not great, but hey, what can you say. The map was amazing. I'll post it once the gautlet is over (or is posting now allowed). A pro player probably would have made rank #1 with such an crazy spawn point. 4 incense, 2 wheat

Nt

 

[Neuro]

You are more than welcome to post now, there's no spoilers since we aren't playing the same map.

Speaking of Maps, what has everyone been trying so far? I've been sticking to Pangaea maps, but I'm thinking about trying one of the more concentrated ones like Great Plains.

Thoughts?

 

[Robert Smith]

Speaking of Maps, what has everyone been trying so far? I've been sticking to Pangaea maps, but I'm thinking about trying one of the more concentrated ones like Great Plains.

Thoughts?

I have been trying with Great plains for all my trails, u don't need to scout for other civ (they will found u fast enough) and lot of marble/wine sites BUT poor sites when it comes to hammers...

 

[Martin Alvito]

I've been playing Pangaea and I see no reason to switch to Great Plains. The top overall time is going to require a ridiculous start that has growth potential, hammers and the right luxuries (in quantity), and Pangaea is the most likely map for rolling that entire package.

Cash seems to be the limiting condition. I keep having these crazy games where I slap up The Louvre between 105 and 110, have the second GE ready to go for Cristo in the 150s and can't build it because the AIs and I were all broke between turns 100 and 120.

Guiding the RA chain to Archaeology while you push Machinery does seem to be the way to go. The Opera House goes up a lot later than I'd like that way, but the quick Louvre means your GE isn't standing around waiting, you can actually build stuff with the Ironworks, and you get the Aqueduct up early so you can pop boom the capital.

 

[vexing]

i think getting lucky with city state quests / barb workers could be a huge factor as well... my gminor submission was a pretty unexceptional game except 3 cultural city states all wanted the same barb hut eliminated. i got aesthetics before grabbing it and instantly had 3 cultural allies.