G-Minor 80

[kovacsflo]

Some conclusions about my submission:

- I won't ever play with a non-industrial leader in easier difficulties while aiming cultural victory.

- I won't try again settling down more than 4-5 GP farms in Boreal (including my 3 cultural cities). Young cities will never reach a GA even by having 5 artists.

- I am about to say that it is better if the first 2-3 great people are prophets. Early shrines helps your economy to discover liberalism and your state religion's shrine can give you even 18 culture points! Just build it ASAP.

- Stone is essential from the beginning, marble can wait a bit. I played with raging barbs, everything what I had to do for the increased points is to build the great wall. Stonehenge and pyramids are critical as well. In boreal you can't get too much luxury resources while deers let your cities grow fast.

- And I will pray not to have more than 1 great spies

 

[WastinTime]

Good tips kovacsflo, but one of the great things about Civ is that many strategies can work equally well. My first game was very messy as I described (not enough workers), but I still got 13xx AD finish. Here are a few things I did differently:

I never had stone. I only built Great Artist Wonders + Pyramids/Oracle. As long as I have stuff to build (monateries, temples, etc.) then I don't feel the need to get wonders.
All of my GA were born with 100% probability. I had all GA and just one GE. I forgot how much better the shrine is in BTS. I avoid it in vanilla but will change that.

So Ind trait was not a big deal for me -- I played Gandhi. Fast workers on forests/quick speed seems essential to me.

I only had 6 cities, and only 3 religions.

I really liked my map though. We'll see if there's another map worthy of a another shot at this.

 

[jesusin]

I forgot how much better the shrine is in BTS. I avoid it in vanilla but will change that.

What's the difference, please?

 

[WastinTime]

What's the difference, please?

Shrine is 4 culture in vanilla. (doubles to 8 after 1000 years, I think, don't know cus I never build them)

With BTS + Sistine Chapel, the culture is 9 (doubled = 18)

Also, on Monarch I found it hard to trade for cash to keep the slider at 100% until very late in the game (with Deity, it's easier), so the gold from the shrine is more useful in this gauntlet than it would normally be.

I have to strongly disagree with getting more than 1 shrine however.

 

[kovacsflo]

Also, on Monarch I found it hard to trade for cash to keep the slider at 100% until very late in the game (with Deity, it's easier), so the gold from the shrine is more useful in this gauntlet than it would normally be.

I have to strongly disagree with getting more than 1 shrine however.

But the question is the following: do we agree to build wonders which can result a prophet or not? I think apostolic palace, spiral minaret and stonehenge are still useful even by resulting a prophet sometimes.

Having a prophet at the beginning is even more useful as having a GA. But the other prophets still can help you much, even by shrines in cultural cities. Small religions still gives you money and some culture points. Also you can found christianity and islam earlier. I don't want to say that the 2nd, 3rd or later prophets are more useful than GAs, but having such useful wonders which I mentioned means that the price is acceptable IMO.

Which really polluted my GP points was the great wall. Great spies are only can help you if you start a golden age. Some other wonders are questionable like temple of Artemis. I built it because of 2 reasons:

1. I couldn't build another wonder in my coastal city, which needed more culture points.

2. I know that later I will build the great lighthouse and a harbor in that city, which makes the temple of Artemis more useful.

And also great library is questionable, but in my 1320 AD submission I had so many GP points in my capital that it still didn't really matter. The chance of GA decreased from 65% to 54 % as far as I remember, and in that time I could use a GE or a prophet very well. All in all I had 1 great scientist, who helped me to discover printing press, and fasten my great person producing. This is a risky thing, but I think luck is an important part in gauntlets. Not the less careful player will win this minor.

I still had 11 GAs and a shrine establishing prophet. If I don't mention the 3 great persons who were born at the last 1-2 turn, I had only 2 great person who weren't too useful: the 2nd great spy and the scientist.

 

[kovacsflo]

Good tips kovacsflo, but one of the great things about Civ is that many strategies can work equally well.

I agree. But I tried Gandhi and I wasn't satisfied with him.

I never had stone. I only built Great Artist Wonders + Pyramids/Oracle. As long as I have stuff to build (monateries, temples, etc.) then I don't feel the need to get wonders.
All of my GA were born with 100% probability. I had all GA and just one GE. I forgot how much better the shrine is in BTS. I avoid it in vanilla but will change that.

In my strategy stone and later marble are essential.
I'm wondering how many GAs did you have and how many cities had enough food and time to give you a GA.

Fast workers on forests/quick speed seems essential to me.

I only had 6 cities, and only 3 religions.

I really liked my map though. We'll see if there's another map worthy of a another shot at this.

These are the settings when you really can use fast workers, I agree. But having 12 workers instead of 8 is still not difficult. 6 city and 3 religion seems few to me. 6 city and 3 religion means only 6 cathedrals. Compared to this, an 13xx AD result is pretty good. I add that practically your 7-9th cities will only help you by building temples, but it is still a big help.

Why was your map so good?

 

[WastinTime]

I had 5 grass and 3 gems in the captial(but not great food there) and four really good food cities + marble/copper. All without having to spread out too wide.

I probably had 15 or 16 GAs. I'd have to look.

 

[babybluepants]

I tried one with Ramesses... Nice start with 2 gems and 4 river grass, as well as a great NE site nearby. But, it's been brutal going. The biggest problem is no marble... I've completely under-expanded and I'm way too slow getting cathedrals up. I guess I don't really know how to wonderspam. The mass of wonders in mid-game really conflicts with temples and cathedrals, I feel. And, I'm kinda hating the random GP pops... I'm at 100% slider in 590 AD right now; looks like probably 1500's on a quick calculation, but I might not invest the 2-3 hrs to finish.

I think I'll try Gandhi next. Fast workers would help, and there's plenty of things to build without going for many wonders.

I almost wanna play expansive for the +2 health and worker build bonus on this map. Say, Peter or Bismarck, depending on the strategy... Or not.

 

[kovacsflo]

I tried one with Ramesses... Nice start with 2 gems and 4 river grass, as well as a great NE site nearby. But, it's been brutal going. The biggest problem is no marble... I've completely under-expanded and I'm way too slow getting cathedrals up. I guess I don't really know how to wonderspam. The mass of wonders in mid-game really conflicts with temples and cathedrals, I feel. And, I'm kinda hating the random GP pops... I'm at 100% slider in 590 AD right now; looks like probably 1500's on a quick calculation, but I might not invest the 2-3 hrs to finish.

I think I'll try Gandhi next. Fast workers would help, and there's plenty of things to build without going for many wonders.

I almost wanna play expansive for the +2 health and worker build bonus on this map. Say, Peter or Bismarck, depending on the strategy... Or not.

You don't need to start close to marble - it is enough if you have marble in a horrible place when your wonderspam needs marble. Random GP pop is not a serious problem if you can have prophets instead. All in all, at the late game your cultural cities can produce 2500 culture points all together, so I am about to say that GAs are a bit owervalued in this topic.

Expansive leaders? I myself found it useful having bigger cities for more cottages. But the problem is that you have to chop more forests, so 2 more cottages costs +3 health points practically (+1 for the 2 chopped forests).

Btw what is NE? My mother language is Hungarian and somatimes I have problems with shortenings in this forum.

Flóri

 

[babybluepants]

I myself found it useful having bigger cities for more cottages. But the problem is that you have to chop more forests, so 2 more cottages costs +3 health points practically (+1 for the 2 chopped forests).

Yeah, that's just it. I keep wondering if I should chop more or keep some health points. There are just so few resources. Granted I didn't get any coast in this game, and I've seen seafood on this map. That could be 2-3 more, and I'd probably be fine.

And my native language is Serbian - we're neighbors. It stands for National Epic.

I meant no marble anywhere at all...

 

[WastinTime]

In my game I never even bothered to build aqueducts, and I traded away my fish for gold. In other words, health was never an issue. Even after I chopped every most forests. And I did not get the herbalist random event for health either.

 

[kovacsflo]

Yeah, that's just it. I keep wondering if I should chop more or keep some health points. There are just so few resources. Granted I didn't get any coast in this game, and I've seen seafood on this map. That could be 2-3 more, and I'd probably be fine.

City growing is very much depends on the situation in this map, but I experienced that it is very hard to grow your cities belove 16 pop. Fish and crabs are quite rare, but you still can have at least one of them. But in the best situation, you still could have
just +2 health from harbor, since there is no clam in the whole map.

Anyway in my 1320 AD game my third city was a coastal with 8 river tiles, a fish, 2 or 3 deers and a sheep.

And my native language is Serbian - we're neighbors.

OK, I just see that in your avatar Canada is written as home, that's why I supposed that your mother language is English (I know it still could be French).

 

[billybgame]

Let me preface by saying I have no Monarch Civ 4 victories yet. So, I'm giving this a go, as i figure Cultural is going to be about the easiest way to get one. If can win one, it'll be nowhere near some I'm seeing posted. But, I have some observations/questions:

Wow, is it hard to keep up with the land grab that the other civs do. I've made two efforts, after I aborted the first, when I was underpowered, and got declared on by Hannibal. But, in both games, I can get to maybe 6 cities, and I run out of room. Mind you I'm going all peaceful. Sure, I could've had more if I'd gone for more settlers, earlier. I actually had a lot of room by myself, in this one(albeit not a lot of good settling sites). But, my economy would have tanked. Mind you, I had no gems in my area, surprisingly. But, I did make quite a few cottages.

Second, does the difficulty impact religion spread? I founded Buddhism, and gave up waiting, and started making missionaries. If I am not mistaken, this will be my first game ever where my religion didn't spread into one of my other cities, on it's own.

I've also had bad luck with failure to spreads in this one. Seems like a lot of things step up, in difficulty. Or, is it just bad luck?

 

[WastinTime]

Quick speed, once again, gets boned on the religion spread. There just aren't many turns in the entire game, so religion may appear to spread slower if you are used to other speeds. It's not difficulty related. Failure to spread is also just bad luck, not level.

 

[kovacsflo]

Let me preface by saying I have no Monarch Civ 4 victories yet. So, I'm giving this a go, as i figure Cultural is going to be about the easiest way to get one. If can win one, it'll be nowhere near some I'm seeing posted. But, I have some observations/questions:

Wow, is it hard to keep up with the land grab that the other civs do. I've made two efforts, after I aborted the first, when I was underpowered, and got declared on by Hannibal. But, in both games, I can get to maybe 6 cities, and I run out of room. Mind you I'm going all peaceful. Sure, I could've had more if I'd gone for more settlers, earlier. I actually had a lot of room by myself, in this one(albeit not a lot of good settling sites). But, my economy would have tanked. Mind you, I had no gems in my area, surprisingly. But, I did make quite a few cottages.

Land grabbing is not so difficult in monarch. And in the other hand, since we are talking about a cultural victory, don't forget that you can settle down cities close to your neighbours - you will take away the land (and even cities) from AI. Don't hesitate to settle down cities far away if you will have valuable resources (stone or marble) or a great GP farm.

Flóri

 

[kcd_swede]

Isn't that 2 or 3 too many? In my book, you only go for 9 cities if you have 3 cottage cities.

I want to play this one, I'm trying to find time desperately.

I only had 2 religions (untill near the very end) so I thought I'd need nine to get 2 cathedrals in each. But since I GPFarmed one of them...

I'm sure you are right.

 

[kovacsflo]

I only had 2 religions (untill near the very end) so I thought I'd need nine to get 2 cathedrals in each. But since I GPFarmed one of them...

I'm sure you are right.

If you want to get religion from an AI, settle down a city close to an AI. In boreal, you can find a neighbour who has a religion which you don't AND the civilization has no connection with you.

Then connect your lonely city with your neighbour. Sooner or later you will have this religion.

 

[babybluepants]

You guys noticed GOTM 46? I think I might just give that a go with my second attempt.

GOTM 46

 

[billybgame]

Ok, I got my first Monarch victory. Nothing special 1896. 7 cities with no stone or marble anywhere nearby. I believe my 3 cultural cities had 10 cottage sites. I got 7 GAs.

Nothing special, but it sure helps my QM and EQM

Oh....also, I didn't go for one of the better leaders for this. I used a pretty good one I had no victories with, Saladin and Arabia

 

[jesusin]

First try: Gem+gold+fur, no green tiles Gandhi; stone closeby, herbalist-1pop, research hindu and juda early. Alpha got in trades 800BC, Pyramids. CS sling T61. Acad T68. NE+Par+Library in capital T80. Sistine T88. 4religions founded. Got dowed, I expected a victory T135, 1450AD, 18GA+Academy GS+GE, big city2 problem, 0 cottages.
Slow settling was my worst problem. Also, too few workers, there is so much to chop in this map!

EDIT: researching at 0% most of the time.