[NFP] Gaesatae is the real negative Unit

[Lily_Lancer]

Besides its already mentioned weaknesses like not able to upgrade, cost a lot, blank against regular ancient units like archers & warriors, etc, there's another main point.

Agoge doesn't work for it, so actually cost more than twice of a warrior.

 

[bbbt]

That seems like a bug. Why wouldn't agoge work for it in terms of game rules.

 

[anonxanemone]

Seems like a bug... I was pleasantly surprised by the Gaesatae though. A swarm of my Gaesatae and other supporting units actually held very well against Crossbowmen and Immortals thanks to the King of the Eburones ability granting +2 Combat Strength for each adjacent unit (to the dismay of Cyrus).

 

[gunnergoz]

I haven't played far enough along with it yet, but not being able to upgrade it seems like a real problem as you lose all that experience. Maybe keep it around into the modern era as a guerrilla/harassment unit in your backwoods or home guard should you go into a dark age? Probably useful as a scout for a long time, but still, big drawback indeed.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I haven't played far enough along with it yet, but not being able to upgrade it seems like a real problem as you lose all that experience. Maybe keep it around into the modern era as a guerrilla/harassment unit in your backwoods or home guard should you go into a dark age? Probably useful as a scout for a long time, but still, big drawback indeed.

It can be upgrade into Musketeer. Just not into swordsman.

 

[gunnergoz]

It can be upgrade into Musketeer. Just not into swordsman.

Well, that's a relief, thanks for the information! So my Pepe LePews can grow up to be mouseketeers, very cool!

 

[Jkchart]

I had no trouble using Agoge for these...

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah. It seems the weakest part of Gaul's kit. It still has some uses, defending against stronger AI units, rapid barbarian clearance... Just nothing that you couldn't do better by building other units and it blocks you getting quick swordsmen. Though that might be a blessing in disguise. If Gaul could upgrade them into Swordsmen then... Yikes.

 

[kaspergm]

Yeah. It seems the weakest part of Gaul's kit. It still has some uses, defending against stronger AI units, rapid barbarian clearance... Just nothing that you couldn't do better by building other units and it blocks you getting quick swordsmen. Though that might be a blessing in disguise. If Gaul could upgrade them into Swordsmen then... Yikes.

Yeah, agree, great on defense, great for clearing barbs, but I got really underwhelmed when trying to do an early rush with these. They got slaughtered by archers.

 

[Lord Lakely]

AGOGE DOESN'T WORK BAD UNIT

::it still takes *only* 4 turns to build one::

Maybe you should... i don't know... stop playing on that cheesy fun-ending speed setting? I know that messes up your precious T120 science victories or whatever, but we must all bear witness to this game and its broken quirks anyway ^__^

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah. It seems the weakest part of Gaul's kit. It still has some uses, defending against stronger AI units, rapid barbarian clearance... Just nothing that you couldn't do better by building other units and it blocks you getting quick swordsmen. Though that might be a blessing in disguise. If Gaul could upgrade them into Swordsmen then... Yikes.

Being more expensive than a warrior is a pain. It doesn't feel like it gains enough bonuses to justify that extra cost, and not being able to upgrade to swords certainly is tougher. Ideally it would be awesome if it had like a "+5 combat strength if your civ has iron" or something to make you skip swordsmen entirely, although that would be way too strong then.

 

[Snarf054]

They are very situational from what I've experienced so far. If someone tries to rush you early it's great fun watching them just get slaughtered by the bonus. They also stand up very well against swords, even in a solo fight, which helps a lot if you don't have iron available. However they are not a OP early warrior unit like a lot of people thought they would be since they get no bonuses against early units of equal or lesser strength and you can't pound them out as fast as a regular warrior.

 

[Sostratus]

Have we confirmed if their ability using Ranged unit's melee or ranged strength when computing the bonus?
Basically, does it work on archers.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

As far as I know Era-based policies are ineffective against Warriors, Scouts, Slingers and any of the uniques because they are not. per definition, part of an Era. I've seen this be a thing with production boosters. Either that or I'm mixing it up but I remember struggling with granting a production bonus to Scouts by using the tags.

 

[Kwami]

As far as I know Era-based policies are ineffective against Warriors, Scouts, Slingers and any of the uniques because they are not. per definition, part of an Era. I've seen this be a thing with production boosters. Either that or I'm mixing it up but I remember struggling with granting a production bonus to Scouts by using the tags.

Agoge definitely works on Warriors, etc.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Agoge definitely works on Warriors, etc.

Like I said I may be mixing it up with a different modifier.

 

[UWHabs]

Like I said I may be mixing it up with a different modifier.

There's no Great Generals that affect warriors or slingers since the first GG deals with classical units, but Agoge definitely should.

If Agoge isn't working for the unit, I have to believe that's a bug and not an intentional design choice. Although would be surprised, since I'm almost positive it works on Eagle Warriors, who would be in a similar boat as being a more expensive warrior replacement. Maybe the above is just some weird rounding bug due to game speed/overflow? Like in the shorter game speeds, the Gaesatae is still +20 production, and not the same ratio?

 

[Victoria]

Never built one, the +4 era score is a bit of a downer for getting a dark age but on the + side it is targeted so using tortoise and adjacency just right can make it semi useful. It was weird attacking a city and it was doing the same damage as a spear.

 

[topsecret]

Agoge works for them on Switch.

I have like 5 and they're great. I built a bunch (with Agoge) which blasted me forward to an early (for me) Political Philosophy and steam-rolled Poland.

 

[AriochIV]

The Gaesate isn't good for early rushes, but in my playthrough I did find them very effective into the late Classical and early Medieval as mass human-wave attacks (which is probably what they're intended for). At that stage they're very cheap and make for very effective cannon fodder.