Game Saturn

[Elucidus]

A settler does not equal a pre-founded city this early in the game. Especially when it's a 2nd settler vs a 3rd city. Let's please move on from this, Ame's not the only one who has had a spot they wanted taken by someone else, and yet others don't expect immediate surrendering of the city in question.

I actually didn't know the terms, but I do now. Not really appropriate to discus publicly but since that is what we are doing. Two settlers does more than equate to one city even this early, especially when the opposing empire has the means to take the city by force...

Joshua is an idiot wrapped in a moron that is all I will say about his post. As for Dux and DMOC, I was simply pointing out that they have delayed the turns more than Ame. I never complained but when things are not to everyone's timetable and the dogpile begins on my wife, lets just say I raise the bullsh*t flag. I guess this is how outsiders are treated to your little gaming group.

Thanks, but no thanks! I'll stick to my own friends.

 

[Joshua368]

Allright! I'm sorry. Not really any easy way to convey that kind of thing over the internet though, so I'll just be quiet and post in the main demogame for the time being.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Dude, calm down, seriously.

I can't be bothered to argue right now, I don't have the time. But a couple of things:

- If you're trying to hint that you have Horses or something waiting to force the city out of my hands, then I don't know why there was any need to bother harassing me all this time over the Copper.

- There's no need to throw insults at the people trying to bring a little levity to the situation, it's uncalled for.

- My mind boggles that after all the discussions, and all the things originally brought up by you (the peace agreement, for one thing), you'd accuse me of acting inappropriately by mentioning that a settler does not equate to a city this early. For the record, I never said two settlers would be unacceptable if they were guaranteed, but that was between Ame and me.

- The game is becoming less and less fun the more this discussion drags on (I think everyone can agree to this).

Please, let's all take a step back and chill out.

 

[Elucidus]

Who are you talking to me or Ame?

Because you are referring to both of us in your post. I never mentioned peace to you, I only mentioned my discontent with your seeming bad actions, explanations understood now.

Dude, calm down, seriously.

I am quite calm I assure you. I am just done dealing with childish crap. Play the game or don't, just don't make fun of people for playing the way they want or making you wait the un-Godly 24-hours to play your next turn once in a while. Imagine making someone wait a full 24 hours...

I can't be bothered to argue right now, I don't have the time. But a couple of things:

For someone that hasn't the time you are sure putting in a good effort.

- If you're trying to hint that you have Horses or something waiting to force the city out of my hands, then I don't know why there was any need to bother harassing me all this time over the Copper.

Doesn't matter anyway, I won't be playing this game anymore. I can't play with a bunch of people who lose their cool when someone goes off their timeline, and I was doing pretty good so far too. A shame really.

- There's no need to throw insults at the people trying to bring a little levity to the situation, it's uncalled for.

Really, because to me adding levity at someone else's expense isn't really harmless humor. It's insulting really!

You really want to know what's uncalled for...the dogpile for my wife playing her turn the way she sees fit. If it was malicious or she was making people wait to annoy them, that's a different story. Even if it was common practice for her, then maybe a complaint. But in the 50+ turns how many times was she the last to play? If she was in negotiations or it was some game or even real world situation that caused the delay then you all can piss off. I am the one who told her to post the reason why she was late as a common courtesy of what was going on. What does she get for it? Attacked!!!! Nice, very graceful, all of you who chimed in, good job.

- My mind boggles that after all the discussions, and all the things originally brought up by you (the peace agreement, for one thing), you'd accuse me of acting inappropriately by mentioning that a settler does not equate to a city this early. For the record, I never said two settlers would be unacceptable if they were guaranteed, but that was between Ame and me.

Well what she emailed you and what I posted here are two different people's perspectives on things with two different opinions. Her only post other than the "I am waiting to hear an email" was the one about three or four posts up, where she pretty much tore into everyone involved. My disgust isn't about the city, that is an ingame matter. It is about the treatment my wife was shown. Everyone whining and complaining about her not ending her turn and then turning to mock her. Given maybe I shouldn't have chimed in in the first place, but I am the one who put 2 & 2 together and told her to check. So I was instantly annoyed by the situation. Never have I had someone agree to peace and talk alliances and tech trades and then turn around not two turns later and settle near me without a word about where and what was appropriate, that is how neighbors act, not allies.

My continued discussion about the cities thing was because I wanted to hear other's thoughts on the issue, not the specific you and Ame one but the situation in general. The only other good one I got was about how quick a settler could get there. Which was a good argument, kudos to whoever posted that.

- The game is becoming less and less fun the more this discussion drags on (I think everyone can agree to this).

Hence the reason I am no longer playing. I normally don't get involved with her stuff, but these last two games have been with people...well lets just say people suck!

Please, let's all take a step back and chill out.

Everyone should have tried that before attacking and mocking others, don't you think?

And the funny thing is that I went off to play Fallout 3 and wasn't coming back for the night. Ame saw the loving parting gifts and mockings sent our way and brought my attention to it.

 

[Elucidus]

Oh and Ame pointed out that the first email came from you...the peace agreement specifically, alliance discussions followed shortly thereafter.

 

[Joshua368]

Or you could accept apologies from the people who wronged your fine (me and uh... Toch; Dux sorta) so we can all forgive each other and never let it happen again.

That way you don't have to lose your "pretty good" game and hate us and we don't have to play with AIs and possibly have to find a new host and then we can just all enjoy the silly game again instead of getting worked up.

 

[Elucidus]

I'm sorry I did mean to accept it. I got caught up in the rest. If you meant it the way you said then I apologize for my insults.

EDIT: You do have to admit though that your post does come off a bit asinine. Of course I am sure all of mine following do as well.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Yeah, I got a bit caught up in the discussions too. I meant it when I said I didn't have the time for this, I just can't help myself sometimes I guess. I'm glad it finally blew over.

I think it doesn't help that I see Elucidus playing and posting as Amethyst so often, so I guess I sometimes assume I'm always talking to him. The forum issue was between Elucidus and I; the game issue was between Amethyst and I. So I'll go to the root of it and sort things out with her now.

 

[Elucidus]

I only ever did that in one game, other than a turn here or there, which I announce beforehand or soon after as time allows.

 

[Toch]

Ok iam really sorry to Ame if my "joke try" abused her. It was really not my point ....

ATM when game is not up, iam not sure if we are still playing ?

I hope so b/c i was enjoying it like a lot ...

Since it is for a lot of us first MP pitboss game it would be bad end it like this :/, since we had so much fun till now....

And the funny thing is that I went off to play Fallout 3 and wasn't coming back for the night.

Awesome game

 

[Scuum]

i've always liked the idea of this forum to work as the united nations, you can come here and discuss things and hear others opinion on that topic.
Of course some will be on your side and some wont, just like it is in real world.
Its all part of building a public opinion on the state politics. Same applies to this forum: topics can become heated discussions like in the un and this has consequences. If these peace and alliance treaty coming from parkin is true, he'll probably suffer lost of trust for future treaties with other nations. If ministers argue all night and cant come to a conclusion because one person disagrees, there will always be someone pointing out that he wants to finish this topic and go to bed. So i consider that all part of the game and i'm stunned how realistic things can get here.
On the other side the tone got a bit too rough for my taste. This is to be a fun game, and although fun game doesnt mean you'll have fun all the time (bc losing sth to an opponent is never fun), we should stay friendly as much as possible.

Coming to some conclusions:

Loosing that city site sucks by beeing bad luck in two ways: being on an awfully crowded island and struggling against very skillful opponents

If no resolution can be archieved, go to war, if you can. This is what all nations would do in such a situation. If you cannot, you dont have the upper hand for now and cant put pressure to your demands and must rely on some other strategy as the following (just an example)

As much as you all hate this public disclosure of ame and parkins ingame stuff, bc of all the things that have been said. I think thats the way to go, bc that puts parkin into an arkward public position, as where more aggressive acts against ame might not be tolerated and may be dealt with by spontaneous alliances. (just a possibility but i like that somehow)

Aggressive settling sucks too, bc i'm not very good at it, but i tend to agree that it is first comes first served. Parkin had to pay in some other terms for that (reseach, troops).

In reallife you have to cope with all the sh*t the UN throws at the weaker nations, bc there is no quitting real life. The old-timers and diety players are the big ones and the n00bs (like me) are maybe something like africa and have to act accordingly to succeed.
ame, please take it as an opportunity:
Make some allys, declare him as your arch enemy and get things even more realistic! But if you dont want to play with us anymore i can understand that, too...

As the game isnt running atm i have to ask this:
If youre both completly fed up with us, is there any way we can transfer the game to another pitboss?

Thats my point of view, maybe it helps

 

[hell_hound]

Well I can never be bothered to write long posts so here is summary of what i would write:
-TBH I am kinda with Amethyst and Elucidus on the whole turn thing, there have been so many times I could have had my turn if it had flipped, and the person was around (on the forums) but I havent complained, just slept and played the next day. Yes I PM'ed Elucidus but that was purely from the thought Amethyst had forgotten to hit end turn.
-With a matter such as the city settling, it was something best left to PMs and e-mails, or if a concensus had not been reached, post a more general example on the forums and find the general opinion then, not naming anyone.

I hope the game can continue, because it has been so much fun and it would be silly for it to be stopped over such a small thing that has escalated way out of hand.

 

[plako]

I really hope we can find a way to continue game with Amethyst and Elucidus included. It has been really fun game so far.

Here are few more points to consider:
* Silent majority of the players hasn't been complaining about the pace of the game. In fact it has been going on very nicely in my opinion. Handling diplmacy is totally valid reason to keep game on hold as well as any other reason. However sometimes you forget to end turn so it is perfectly alright to remind, if someone suspects you've forget to do it.
* I personally have used plenty of time to think and play this game. It would really be a shame if it would end like this or be crippled by replacing players with AI
* I haven't played much multiplayer games. Against AI agressive settling is often good idea. I can see now that this could have serious consequences in MP. However as said diplomacy should be used to handle these and as I understand Amethyst and Lord Parkin has done exactly this. In my opinion biggest mistake was made when details of this discussion were revealed publicly assuming that both parties didn't approve it

 

[Toch]

I dont know how you guys but i miss this game a lot.. too quiet here since then...

So is there some possibility for peace agreament ???

 

[Joshua368]

Pretty sure we're in the time out corner.

 

[Elucidus]

Toch, the issue I have is not with that, and the issue is me, not Ame, nor Emperor. My issue is simply the mistreatment of a player. I would have come to anyone's defense had they posted a statement that they are taking time for diplomacy and people attacked them for it, although I would not have done so as vehemently.

If these peace and alliance treaty coming from parkin is true, he'll probably suffer lost of trust for future treaties with other nations.

This warrants a response and it isn't really a fair statement. What I said is 100% accurate, but it doesn't go into his reasons, which were, now that I understand them, completely understandable. The incident was unintentional. Let me explain, without going into Emperor's business he is going to school pretty heavily and its a complicated one at that and he has a family life to deal with, so as exams and reports come due his time-frame available for civ shrinks. He didn't think to address the placement as his mind wasn't in the game. How many of us can say that we never play when we were distracted by other things? Ame and Emperor are working this out. I have known him for what is now, Emp, 8 years? Never has he done anything like that, so my first reaction should have been a WTH? I should have addressed him personally, for that I apologize.

I can say that isn't like me either, though I haven't been entirely myself for four months now. It is pretty sad for me to blame the pain, but the idiot military doctors sent me back to work before my neck healed according to my neurosurgeon, so the last week or so I have been a bit short. I am tired of apologizing for my behavior from this, but it isn't nearly as bad as when I was all drugged up and still in pain.

I have only taken down one game and not shared the save once and it was a doomed alliance game, where everyone was a team, but they were bickering like a bunch of school kids and there was no fun at all. I couldn't stand it and we only ever got like five turns in.

So even if I didn't continue to play and continue to host you can still have the save. I think I will continue as there were more quiet people than squeaky ones.

I have to go to the gym to do some physical therapy but when I get back I will re-setup the game. I just want everyone to remember, we all have the right to take 24 hours to play our turn, and we have a responsibility to try and take as little time as necessary to play said turn. We all need to trust that people are doing that as I don't want a repeat of this situation. Thank you all for your understanding.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Ame and I came to an agreement yesterday, so hopefully the game will be up soon.

In hindsight, I think the original post that started this wasn't necessary (it betrayed both myself and Ame), and things escalated from there.

Dude, it is not cool to aggressively settle on a game where we agree not to be aggressive. And especially when you make a non agreession pact the turn or two before...

And btw, settling closer to your neighbor than you, is aggressive settling.

We should have been allowed to sort things out between us in person, not on the forum. I admit I was partly to blame for keeping the argument going, but it should never have been started in the first place.

In all honesty, I am not an overly aggressive player, nor do I think I'm an aggressive settler. If I'm settling closer to a neighbour than myself, I will absolutely ask permission. The situation in this game was perhaps a grey area for some, I admit. But I still maintain that it is not a fair assumption for any player to expect that the land midway between them and their neighbours will remain unsettled by their neighbours unless there is a full and in-depth negotiation with them. Nor to expect that land they missed out on should immediately be handed to them on a silver platter.

But enough of that. On the whole, my mistake was a simple lack of communication (due to simple forgetfulness during a busy real life). The rest of it was escalation of a small problem due to overreactions.

Anyway, I hope we can start again on this game soon.

 

[Toch]

Ok i agree that we didnt entirely respected Amethys right for diplo time but cmon, our first MP game, and we are not handling with stuff like this with AI...

So next time when some1 needs Diplo-time just write here that we can go sleep that it is going to take some time... And we will not be hanging around and posting silly post (srry for that once more)

 

[Lord Parkin]

Thanks for your post, Luc. (Yeah, it's been over 7 years now.) I feel I should apologise for dragging out the argument a bit myself - I should have tried to sort it out in person after your initial post, rather than taking the bait to keep posting in the forum. Wish I'd just remembered to sort this out with Amethyst long ago, then we'd be having none of these issues. Ah well, it happens.

Glad that we'll be starting again soon.

 

[Elucidus]

Emperor, I admitted I shouldn't have posted that, not sure why you feel the need to dredge it all up again? I never said anything about the tech trade plans or defense terms, and it is no surprise that people are making non-agression agreements anyway, hell half the people int he game are in one for 100 turns. So it really caused no undue harm. Your own escalation as you put it was with revealing more information and becoming mocking as you just did again with the silver platter comment. Now, maybe this last one was a cross post to mine, I don't know.

Ok i agree that we didnt entirely respected Amethys right for diplo time but cmon, our first MP game, and we are not handling with stuff like this with AI...

So next time when some1 needs Diplo-time just write here that we can go sleep that it is going to take some time... And we will not be hanging around and posting silly post (srry for that once more)

Toch, she did exactly that, said she was waiting on a message from someone and that is when she got stomped, I am not talking about the PM or the messages on the forum about her being the last one or her forgetting her turn. The stuff that followed is what was uncalled for. I hope this won't repeat.

Anyway, give me a little while to set up the game.