Gameplay comparison

[Afforess]

Turn 60, 120, and 180 saves attached.


Was amused when I saw Genghis lose a core city of his to rebel-spawned Incans only for them to vassalize to the Siam many miles away on the very same turn. Currently they've "given up their independence" to Siam who now likely has to deal with not only the maintenance costs of a city halfway across the world, but also is running the risk of it rebelling again - I mean, it's miles away AND surrounded by Mongolian culture



Game is definitely playing out differently than the first time around. Missed out on Buddhism by a few turns, and Naghualism is the only religion under my control. Shaka more or less expanded in the exact same way he did the first game though heh.

Interesting saves. This time around you seem to be near the lead (instead of at the top of the pack), but by no means is the game already decided. Considering that this is only Noble difficulty, this seems a much better game.

 

[Afforess]

Hah so I had built this fort here a while back and came back many turns later to see a wandering Siam warrior had walked through it and "captured" it despite me having built it in the first place.

Now there's a patch of Siamese land that I can't work or settle on but the fort is unowned


I suppose the only way to remove that fort now is to use a Spy to sabotage it?
View attachment 376025

You should be able to send a military unit to take the fort.

 

[MercuryBluefalc]

A bit curious: A civ formed in spain on an earth map and after i said no for entering my territory they invaded with a huge stack + a unit with general. Problem? It was a newly formed civ, right in the ancient, where nobody had more then 3,4 warriors.

I dont know if the problem is solved now, but some civs, at least 2 or 3 dont make settlers on a earth map. Some expand nicely, others sit in their capital and build units.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

A bit curious: A civ formed in spain on an earth map and after i said no for entering my territory they invaded with a huge stack + a unit with general. Problem? It was a newly formed civ, right in the ancient, where nobody had more then 3,4 warriors.

Newly formed civs from barbarian get a bonus at the start otherwise they would be killed pretty soon. It's meant to give them a chance to survive.

I dont know if the problem is solved now, but some civs, at least 2 or 3 dont make settlers on a earth map. Some expand nicely, others sit in their capital and build units.

It's been solved in one of the latest revisions. Some civs could have more problems expanding because of their territory.

 

[MercuryBluefalc]

Yeah - understandable. But as i watched, Carthage for example didnt expand till 1000 AD in one game, in the next on the same map they allready have 4 citys.

The newly formed Barb Civs: Well you are of course right! They need a little army, to repell invaders. But i think, this creates "my" problem, when they are in a closed space, they will soon invade their neigbour and swarm him with huge numbers.

Mabye you could solve that with an non-moveable unit, which can defend their city. Or a unit, which can only defend.

Another question: I have read somewhere, that civ can "only" use one core, because its an older game. Is there somewhere somehow a possibility to solve this? I have a modern comp with 16 GB Ram, but the turns allready need some time.

 

[Rezca]

The "not expanding until AD years" was a problem present in a very old revision. It shouldn't be present anymore.

The Barb Civs I've noticed sometimes getting like, 6 ~ 14 units of the best they can get - whether or not their neighbor has any answer to those units. I remember playing a MP game with a buddy and I exited the game real early since a barbarian civ popped up on my border, I tried asking for open borders and they said "We have our reasons..." Few turns later they declare with a GG-led army of almost 15 units.

 

[Afforess]

Another question: I have read somewhere, that civ can "only" use one core, because its an older game. Is there somewhere somehow a possibility to solve this? I have a modern comp with 16 GB Ram, but the turns allready need some time.

Civilization 4 isn't multithreaded, correct. In order to use multiple processors at once a program needs to have multiple threads of execution. This isn't something you can "fix" with a setting or two, it's a core design decision. It's hard to blame the original developers because in 2003 (yes, that is the civ 4 release date) multicore machines did not exist for consumers.

There has been a tiny bit of multithreading added, but it really is rather small and it massively complicates the code.

 

[MercuryBluefalc]

Okay, thanks

Another question: I did the "loyality" trait for one of my units. It says "100 less revolts in a city." What does this mean correctly? No revolution at all? Or only no revolution from spys from other civs? Because the city still revolts against my glorius reign...

 

[Afforess]

Okay, thanks

Another question: I did the "loyality" trait for one of my units. It says "100 less revolts in a city." What does this mean correctly? No revolution at all? Or only no revolution from spys from other civs? Because the city still revolts against my glorius reign...

It doesn't remove the change of revolts, it reduces the chance of revolts by 100%. The phrasing is rather odds, but it's a standard Civ promotion, so blame the game developers.

The net effect is that revolts are 1/2 as likely as before.

 

[MercuryBluefalc]

I have another wired thing with the earth map which is very cool, but...

2 Games and India wins the day with hands down. In the first, we dont even go much after 0 AD and they got riffeling and rule all of asia and most of africa. The problem is: I played as rome and if i conquer russia, the game is over for me: The russian citys revolt on and on, but india plants citys in asia, europe, africa and all is just fine for them.

So i will try to play without revolts, which reduces the possibility of new civs.

 

[Afforess]

...

I don't see a question in there.

 

[Rezca]

Turn 301 save attached.

Some things are rolling out differently than the first game indeed. I'm making friends with Ramses and Hammurabi this time around, and since Genghis got conquered instead of becoming friends with me (Largely because Buddhism spread to his cities early on while I founded the coatl religion. Forgive me if I continue to call it that instead of Naghualism since I can never spell that xD ) Genghis never went over to raze his cities - and since I never conquered Babylon, the Siamese and English have been pushing settlers over on that stretch of land south of Hammurabi's land.

I still managed to land a city on that "Tobacco Island" this time around, and the AI still have some strange fascination with that Peak off its coast. Both Dido and Ramses tried sending a settler there (Ramses missing the spot by a few turns, but I declared on Dido the moment she landed her settler pair there and razed it on the following turn heh)


I landed Greek Fire and Magellan's Voyage in a nice production city, which is now churning out Frigates so I can keep my coastal borders safe. Of course there's also the little detail that I love besting the AI at naval warfare

 

[Noyyau]

Is there still a need for other people to play this out with the newer revisions? Or is Rezca the "official AND tester"? (In which case, congrats! )

 

[Rezca]

Is there still a need for other people to play this out with the newer revisions? Or is Rezca the "official AND tester"? (In which case, congrats! )

Pretty sure "The More the Merrier"

More input given = more data provided = better balancing in future revisions.

Everyone's got a different way of tackling a game and handling a given situation, so the more people providing input the better. I for one am a huge fan of warmongering, vassalizing AIs, am slow to change from certain civics, and often pursue fairly odd techtree choices. I'm also a big fan of culture-wars and chasing after things that push that even further, though I don't usually use Fixed Borders, Realistic Culture, Expanded Castles, or some other 'default' options. Revolutions I do like, but I don't always play with it on.


Sure, it'd be cool to have that title (Maybe make a sub-group in the credits for frequent testers? ) but I do feel that the more people testing and providing feedback, the better.

 

[Noyyau]

Time to download the new rev then!

 

[JosEPh_II]

I have not started this particular savegame from 45* but today I did start a new game, Epic, Huge, PM map with 14 AI with the SVN 724 build. I like how it's flowing better overall.

Of the AI met so far I rank 2nd overall, But... my Military power is only .5 compared to the top 3 AI. I missed Judaism by 3 turns ( a badly timed civic anarchy period of 3 turns) so I bee-lined Buddhism and just beat another AI for it. I did get Oracle and Great Wall Wonders even though I was beaten to Mathematics.

I'm 3-4 cities smaller than 2 of my neighbors and am struggling to keep the happiness and money flowing to keep pace with them. I did get a copper and then iron resource so my fighting units are not lagging to badly. I just got horse but had elephant early.

If I were playing with REV On I'd be swimming in revolts as I have had 1 -3 angry citizens come and go for the last 3000 years game wise in my 2 biggest cities (I only have 6 cities). I'm currently at 559BC.

I don't find Epic to be out of sorts at all with balance, so far.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I don't find Epic to be out of sorts at all with balance, so far.

JosEPh

I've done some test myself and it looks like gamespeeds are more or less good balanced. What could cause imbalance then is mapsizes different from large (the farther, the more game could be imbalanced) and handicap levels.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

@Noyyau and Rezca: yes, there's always need of people testing the game. So you're more than welcome. Rezca, I was thinking of adding you to credits as a beta tester as you've done a lot of testing work.

 

[MercuryBluefalc]

Well i tried another Game now. But its a bit curious. I play on Emporer now and well... the AI doesnt build many units, mostly obsolets one. On the last difficult, they allready had tons and tons of units in their citys.

What i also found a bit funny is, if you let the ai play for you, your civ gehts all the hammers and science bonus from the other civs! So your worker doesnt need 20 turns, only 6 or 7! And your science needs much less for the next new tech... Its only a minor problem, i know, but it shows, how the ai gets his huge stacks sometimes.

What i also found a bit disturbing, is the much bigger happy-face tolerance of the ai. I got a Pop 9 or 10 City and the AI allready has in the most Citys 15 - 20 or even bigger pop.

So my problem here is simple: On deity india - its everytime ing india conquers asia and africa and everything and has double or trippe of my points as number 2 and kills my middel-age army with gunfire and cannons or the zulu send a 80 units stack of doom (realy, 28 longbow, 25 - 30 mace-men, the rest spear and pikeman and 2,3,4 catapults lol)

On emporer i have no real problems till now, but maybe india will also conquer asia again and we have a nice late-game-battle.

Another problem i encounteres is, that the ai doesnt use much catapults if they are available. I build 10 - 12 of them and with them and their high tolerance against killing i kill every stack - even the zulu one - in 3,4,5 turns if i got 10,15 good macemen together.

Rebellion is quite useless as a game option for me: If i play a europe civilization, if i reach russia, its over for me, cause of Rebellions. India on the other hand, has most of asia and africa, even found citys there, and has Zero probs. No shattering of their empire, no rebellion, nothing.

Oh, i play on marathon gamespeed.

A last question: I encounter in the last 2 Games, that some techs are suddenly very, very cheap - i got a +XXX for science next to my own bulbs. Is this the "tech difussion" thing, which allows me to research things faster, because other civs allready researched it?

 

[Afforess]

What i also found a bit funny is, if you let the ai play for you, your civ gehts all the hammers and science bonus from the other civs! So your worker doesnt need 20 turns, only 6 or 7! And your science needs much less for the next new tech... Its only a minor problem, i know, but it shows, how the ai gets his huge stacks sometimes.

That is how difficulty works, and when you let the AI play, obviously they get the same benefits.

What i also found a bit disturbing, is the much bigger happy-face tolerance of the ai. I got a Pop 9 or 10 City and the AI allready has in the most Citys 15 - 20 or even bigger pop.

Higher difficulty just means the AI has an easier game...That's how difficulty in Civ4 works.

A last question: I encounter in the last 2 Games, that some techs are suddenly very, very cheap - i got a +XXX for science next to my own bulbs. Is this the "tech difussion" thing, which allows me to research things faster, because other civs allready researched it?

Tech diffusion is listed in the upper left of the main screen.