AluminumKnight
Conquistador
I would appreciate a statement with what our research path will be (preferably public), especially considering I will be playing the save on Monday and will need to know what to do.
Gameplay Discussion of Research
- Thread starter blastoidstalker
- Start date
Um the Philosophers have always been all ears about big issues. The reason why I hesitate to set up an opinion poll is that ultimately it looks like something its not, a refrendum. The truth is that as a coalition we are the victors and so we told people how it was going to be run. The voter was aware that the philosopher faction would have private meetings and hold their decision making discussions as far as research. We value the opinions everyone, but do the nature of the games current style of government, we are not obligated to be populists.
Coming from the leader of the opposition this seems a little credulous. It looks more like an exscuse for mutiny and even if we did research Code of Laws ASAP are we honestly going to get confususciam when we haven't really done any of the religious research. Or are we such a big nation that we need court houses right now. I think its more the fact that when new civic options open up (such that with code of laws) the government will splitter and lead a possibilty of the opposition to take over. Now the independent may see the possibilty of the Government delaying that because we don't want to splinter. But the truth is we have concrete gameplay reasons to research other techs
Iron Working
We are planniing and preparing for an invasion of the spanish. While we are building cities and developing land is in the works we have a longterm goal to take them out. They will become an increasing cultural threat, and having them taken out would allow us to focus on other security threats more intensly. Not to mention we would adopt a religion and its holy city. Discovering iron well allow us to build cities near deposits and therefore also construct swordsmen.
Archery
It is getting increasingly risky to have our city(s) guarded by men with clubs, while the protectors are going after the bronze deposit, it will take along time for that to be usable and archers are better defenders anyways.
Mysticism
Not all of our cities have the time to build a library yet. Having the option to culture expand at one third of the cost is very critical as we are competing for resources and land and need the culture to back it up. It also opens the doors for later religious techs.
These are few techs that philosophers want to get soon, and see more benefit then a tech plan that soley allows one minority group to get a chance to be in power agian.
I will not be opening a poll, but their will be a discussion thread that i will open up and encourage all the philosophers to read.
Coming from the leader of the opposition this seems a little credulous. It looks more like an exscuse for mutiny and even if we did research Code of Laws ASAP are we honestly going to get confususciam when we haven't really done any of the religious research. Or are we such a big nation that we need court houses right now. I think its more the fact that when new civic options open up (such that with code of laws) the government will splitter and lead a possibilty of the opposition to take over. Now the independent may see the possibilty of the Government delaying that because we don't want to splinter. But the truth is we have concrete gameplay reasons to research other techs
Iron Working
We are planniing and preparing for an invasion of the spanish. While we are building cities and developing land is in the works we have a longterm goal to take them out. They will become an increasing cultural threat, and having them taken out would allow us to focus on other security threats more intensly. Not to mention we would adopt a religion and its holy city. Discovering iron well allow us to build cities near deposits and therefore also construct swordsmen.
Archery
It is getting increasingly risky to have our city(s) guarded by men with clubs, while the protectors are going after the bronze deposit, it will take along time for that to be usable and archers are better defenders anyways.
Mysticism
Not all of our cities have the time to build a library yet. Having the option to culture expand at one third of the cost is very critical as we are competing for resources and land and need the culture to back it up. It also opens the doors for later religious techs.
These are few techs that philosophers want to get soon, and see more benefit then a tech plan that soley allows one minority group to get a chance to be in power agian.
I will not be opening a poll, but their will be a discussion thread that i will open up and encourage all the philosophers to read.
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
Ballazic.
As a fellow philospher I agree with your general outline of our research goals.
I do not know if you were putting them in order of research, but i think Archery should be our next priority
I am interested instarting the discussion of where to go next. there are some usefull techs like pottery which we have not grabbed.
Assuming we start with
Archery- IW - Mediation
where would you go from here? Would you want to pick up pottery and mayube some of the religious techs? Goi straight to COL, or move along the Mathmatics Calender path?
I am undecided on this and though it may seem early to look at this. It sounds like the next two turnsets will come quickly so It would be good to start the coversation.
As a fellow philospher I agree with your general outline of our research goals.
I do not know if you were putting them in order of research, but i think Archery should be our next priority
I am interested instarting the discussion of where to go next. there are some usefull techs like pottery which we have not grabbed.
Assuming we start with
Archery- IW - Mediation
where would you go from here? Would you want to pick up pottery and mayube some of the religious techs? Goi straight to COL, or move along the Mathmatics Calender path?
I am undecided on this and though it may seem early to look at this. It sounds like the next two turnsets will come quickly so It would be good to start the coversation.
Quit the game, since we won't be able to win it? 
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
Quit the game, since we won't be able to win it?
??????????????????????
I feel that if we don't research CoL now, we will lose.
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
Can you explain why?
specificaly is it not getting a religion
or
is it falling behind due to maintance cost
or
something else?
specificaly is it not getting a religion
or
is it falling behind due to maintance cost
or
something else?
Both of the above, and researching deep gives an advantage when trading techs. We can't possibly research them all ourselves, can we? By researching the same things the AI's will be, we would come out of the first term (if it ever ends) with no advantage and possibly behind.
I think no can disagree that ultimatly we want to research deep, we want to get to civil service asap. But the thing is there is a balance. I could see us losing if we did it your way and not even research archery. But I think you have a really good point that we need to research deep, for the purposes of trading, math, currency meditation, priesthood, etc are all tech that are high priority. But I think as standing in Prime Faction leader (shattered is away) I just don't want to tie us down to a rigid plan. Archery is just one example where immidiete needs overide the needs of a longterm plan as we need to do well in the moment and survive it to make it to our Code of Laws
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
Why archery, why not IW, i value swordmens plus access to iron far more than archers (and horsearchers, the only time i have had a use for them is in multiplayer games)
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
We use the horsearchers is for several things
Pilaging- they can move and pillage and there high strength makes them tough to take out. If Hatty does not have copper (if she takes the near copper we pillage it first) she cannot make spears, her archers or chariots will lose to our Horse Archers. Swords and axes take the cities, Horse archers take everything else.
They also can serve as mop up attack units after they complete there pillaging roll.
Stack defense verses axemen if she has any.
Worker steal at onset of war. Horse archer can steal worker two tiles into enemy territory. Plant him on a hill at the boarder and move him in
Defense against barb or enemy Pilaging. We should keep a hoirse archer in our own lands to take out barbs or enemy units that come into our land before they can pillage our resources. They can take out warriors and archers in any terrian and axes and swords in most.
They also can serve as mop up attck units after they complete there pillaging roll.
Also archery is not a high price to pay for this unit. We got lucky that we poped the expensive tech. Horseback riding.
Pilaging- they can move and pillage and there high strength makes them tough to take out. If Hatty does not have copper (if she takes the near copper we pillage it first) she cannot make spears, her archers or chariots will lose to our Horse Archers. Swords and axes take the cities, Horse archers take everything else.
They also can serve as mop up attack units after they complete there pillaging roll.
Stack defense verses axemen if she has any.
Worker steal at onset of war. Horse archer can steal worker two tiles into enemy territory. Plant him on a hill at the boarder and move him in
Defense against barb or enemy Pilaging. We should keep a hoirse archer in our own lands to take out barbs or enemy units that come into our land before they can pillage our resources. They can take out warriors and archers in any terrian and axes and swords in most.
They also can serve as mop up attck units after they complete there pillaging roll.
Also archery is not a high price to pay for this unit. We got lucky that we poped the expensive tech. Horseback riding.
To not take advantage of horse archers would be just plain stupid. Archery is a must. As to deep research it is something I often do, but which I'm not sure I recommend. Going for the cheap technologies always keep your research ticking over, and all the AIs have different research preferences, so it is unlikely we will end up researching all the same things as the AI instead.
In summary, one expensive tech won't be worth a trade for five cheap techs we should have researched
In summary, one expensive tech won't be worth a trade for five cheap techs we should have researched
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Yeah, safest way right now would be Archery and Mysticism, as the majority suggested. Then consider what route to take next, when we are better informed.
As the majority of those who spoke suggested.
We don't know what the other 75% of the people who registered for the game think. There is no way for us to know because the normal method of finding out what casual players want isn't being used this game.
AluminumKnight
Conquistador
We don't know what the other 75% of the people who registered for the game think. There is no way for us to know because the normal method of finding out what casual players want isn't being used this game.
Last time a poll was posted about a Triad decision, it wasn't recieved too well IIRC...
EDIT: We knew this was going to be run as a Despotism when we elected the Triad, by the way. The whole point of doing the demogame this way was so that we aren't doing the whole 1900's-style democratic bearucracy starting in 4000 BC.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I think his opposition gambit is playing the wrong tune. Uncle Toms Hut Style rhetoric is a little bit premature in a dark era of Classical Age Despotism. To play the political correctness card may work after Representation Civic is enacted, but not necessarily before.
Until then, other mechanisms would be in the forefront.
Until then, other mechanisms would be in the forefront.
Regardless, this game should be about everyone having the opportunity to have fun. A little despotism -- doesn't bother me. Clique mentality bothers me, a lot.
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
Anyone make an opion poll on research. If you want the opinion of the silent majority make the poll yourself and we will look at it, vote in it, and consider it.
The philospohers legfon is a bunch of geezers sitting on our buts talking to eachother. The wise one listens to the arguments and makes a decision. A thread discussion format actualy fits our faction very well, better so than a poll where many opine with no reasons behind it.
The philospohers legfon is a bunch of geezers sitting on our buts talking to eachother. The wise one listens to the arguments and makes a decision. A thread discussion format actualy fits our faction very well, better so than a poll where many opine with no reasons behind it.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Yeah, he is perfectly free to come with all the proposals he want, poll what he want and even make rebellion if he wants to take over the Prime Faction.
Agreeing with DaveShack 100%.
CoL is a nice tech, because all we need is Mysticism, Writing, and CoL, if I'm not mistaken.
The Warlord way gets on my nerves sometimes because the whole game is not about war. There is a possible way to WIN with religion; AP Diplomatic Victory! We don't have to conquer Hatty right this second. Code of Laws seems like common sense.
Also, if we capture Hatty's Holy City, and make her religion ours, then the Faith city won't be a Holy one, which, to me, makes no sense.
CoL is a nice tech, because all we need is Mysticism, Writing, and CoL, if I'm not mistaken.
The Warlord way gets on my nerves sometimes because the whole game is not about war. There is a possible way to WIN with religion; AP Diplomatic Victory! We don't have to conquer Hatty right this second. Code of Laws seems like common sense.
Also, if we capture Hatty's Holy City, and make her religion ours, then the Faith city won't be a Holy one, which, to me, makes no sense.
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