Gaps between units are still too large.

[smallfish]

Its not so much of a wait as it is stupid looking... I just don't want my rifle men backed up by trebs or go from Xbows-gatlings... its just stupid. I can have suspension of disbelief for some things but as I said this is a 1000 year gap in techs, something needs to be in between.

Washington in 4000 BC

wainy's Modern Armor vs Danish Pikemen and Crossbows

4000 yr old war between Japan and runaway Korea, with Japanese Great General Jeanne D'arc leading the Japanese Samurai against Korean WW2 Infantry and Artillery


We kinda crossed the line a long time ago

e: the solution to REALISM is V's very own Rhys and Fall. But that may be in the uncertain distant future...

 

[Asylumer]

4000 yr old war between Japan and runaway Korea, with Japanese Great General Jeanne D'arc leading the Japanese Samurai against Korean WW2 Infantry and Artillery

Am I the only one who really likes this alternate history version of the 100 4000 Years War?

But I'd be all for a more uniform tech tree spread where obsolete units aren't hanging around unless it's because the owner can't invest in upgrading them. It isn't like there haven't been woefully archaic units until a major military reform in many civilizations throughout history.

 

[Grubnessul]

The Dutch army at the start of WWII was woefully archaic and those were cannons from the Great War era... you should get a free upgrade for units two eras behind IMO.

 

[thadian]

there are just too many instances where UU's go obselete fast, the only good ones imo are the ones that have a lifespan - when a UU appears toward the end of an age, but is unable to compete with units of a next age, those units become inferior.

Hopefully the naval units make the seafaring element more enjoyable.

 

[Cruor]

The Dutch army at the start of WWII was woefully archaic and those were cannons from the Great War era... you should get a free upgrade for units two eras behind IMO.

I agree 100%. Unless a nation is so poor that honestly, it isnt really a nation anymore, solders would be equipped with some sort of firearm in say, 1900 rather then use bows and spears.... we are talking a civ style major nation here, not some tribe in Africa. Should have free upgrades and free techs at some point just to keep up, like when the first nation gets riflemen, everyone should get gunpowder for free, if they dont already have it... the information would be just too wide spread.

 

[AriochIV]

you should get a free upgrade for units two eras behind IMO.

I don't think a player should be rewarded for neglecting to upgrade his units. The appropriate action in this case if you don't have enough cash is to disband the unit and build a new one.

 

[CoolLizy]

Should have free upgrades and free techs at some point just to keep up, like when the first nation gets riflemen, everyone should get gunpowder for free, if they dont already have it... the information would be just too wide spread.

But what if they're on another continent and haven't even made contact yet?

 

[billb]

Its not so much of a wait as it is stupid looking... I just don't want my rifle men backed up by trebs or go from Xbows-gatlings... its just stupid. I can have suspension of disbelief for some things but as I said this is a 1000 year gap in techs, something needs to be in between.

Actually it is a 2000 year gap. Crossbows date back several centuries b.c. Considering that effective range of rifles can equal or exceed the effective range of bows.raises some questions. It appears though that ranged units are intended to support units without a ranged ability. Thus bows, etc. support swords and spears, while cannons, gatlings, etc. support rifles, etc. I do agree that the progression could be better.

 

[Gucumatz]

Well Crossbows were still used well into the 1600s. (Not sure if further) I want to see how the transition is held game play wise first.

 

[CYZ]

The main problem here is tech difference. They need to make techs cheaper for civs that are behind on tech, problem solved.

 

[Draskar]

Thus bows, etc. support swords and spears, while cannons, gatlings, etc. support rifles, etc. I do agree that the progression could be better.

I agree, the only problem is how much damage do crossbows agaings modern close-combat units, i want a malus against Gunpowder to all ancient ranged units: in a lot of in-game situation an experienced crossbowmen is a lot more useful than just another riflemen (expecially in a city).

 

[Uberfrog]

I agree, the only problem is how much damage do crossbows agaings modern close-combat units, i want a malus against Gunpowder to all ancient ranged units: in a lot of in-game situation an experienced crossbowmen is a lot more useful than just another riflemen (expecially in a city).

I expect we'll see the end of this in G&K, both with the increase in unit hit points meaning that archaic units aren't still dealing significant damage to modern units, and by actually giving us something to upgrade crossbows that preserve their usefulness and promotions.

The "malus" against gunpowder shouldn't be necessary if the relative combat strengths are right, since the 1HP minimum damage is now negligible.

 

[Draskar]

I expect we'll see the end of this in G&K, both with the increase in unit hit points meaning that archaic units aren't still dealing significant damage to modern units, and by actually giving us something to upgrade crossbows that preserve their usefulness and promotions.

The "malus" against gunpowder shouldn't be necessary if the relative combat strengths are right, since the 1HP minimum damage is now negligible.

You are right, but i have 2 objection:

1) Even with Gatlings, a civ can use Crossbowmen for a long time (if they don't have money to upgrade for example).
2) The problem wasn't the 1 (on 10) minimum damage becouse a crossbowmen with 2 open field promotion makes 4-5 damage against a riflemen on plains.

 

[CYZ]

You are right, but i have 2 objection:

1) Even with Gatlings, a civ can use Crossbowmen for a long time (if they don't have money to upgrade for example).
2) The problem wasn't the 1 (on 10) minimum damage becouse a crossbowmen with 2 open field promotion makes 4-5 damage against a riflemen on plains.

1) You can also use archers against longswordsmen or frigates against destroyers
2) Let's hope this gets fixed! We know the strength levels are being adjusted, I hope for bigger gaps between units!

 

[CoolLizy]

I'm not big on huge power gaps between upgrades. My opponent should get a noticeable advantage if they've got a tech lead on me, but they shouldn't be able to completely wipe the floor with my army just because they got rifling a few turns before I did. Honestly, I like the power balance in Civ V the way it is. (Not that it can't use some tweaks or outright changes, granted. Especially when it comes to the nerfed mounted units.)

 

[Cruor]

But what if they're on another continent and haven't even made contact yet?

well yes, if they weren't in contact, then they wouldn't. Techs should get cheaper for civs who are behind and in contact however, and eventually they should just auto get the tech. You wouldnt be rewarded for being behind, it would still be muskets vs rifles or tanks vs modern armor.