[GS] Gathering Storm - Early Reviews

As someone with relatively little interest in the tactical AI, Marbozir's video review has actually increased my hype a bit:
  • The agendas, he says, have less impact now. I think this is great news. The system, while a nice idea, has always felt clumsily implemented to me: Harald hating you because you're landlocked and have no need for ships, Gitarja loving you because you haven't settled the islands you haven't discovered yet, etc.
  • He also seems to confirm the feeling I've seen elsewhere that the grievance system is a vast improvement over the warmonger points. I must say I like the notion of not being an international pariah for all time because I took a few cities from someone who backstabbed me!
  • Broadly, he speaks positively of the World Congress. I'm still in two minds about it but I feel somewhat reassured.
  • It's a shame that disasters and climate change aren't more frequent or more powerful, but then again they are brand new so there's hope for them to tweak this and possibly add more disasters (earthquakes, maybe even knock-on flooding in the form of tsunamis).
 
The only thing that bothers me is preordering expansions has no benefit for the buyer.

It doesn't, but I know that pre-orders get them to work on more content. I am likely not going to wait until the sales to buy it, so I might as well give the big wigs confidence that the game is worth a continual investment.
 
It doesn't, but I know that pre-orders get them to work on more content. I am likely not going to wait until the sales to buy it, so I might as well give the big wigs confidence that the game is worth a continual investment.
I agree. That is why I preordered even though I was half-hoping that they will give a bit of incentive.
Anyway, this expansion looks solid and currently in the top selling games in Steam, so I guess the devs should continue in supporting this game.
#onemoreexpansion
 
I just watched it, I agree with you it's a step up for them. They do mention that the AI needs improvement and he made a good argument for the world congress including a system to set the agenda.

The polygon article came up in my google feed today, I still can't make any sense out of it though. With all the new content GS introduces, $40 is a fair price especially considered discounts as was mentioned earlier. The 8 news civs and Eleanor alone are worth $20-25. In addition it includes:
  • Natural disasters and climate change
  • Strategic resources and the power system
  • The world congress returning
  • Diplomacy changes and the diplomatic victory
  • Canals, mountain tunnels, a whole new terrain system
  • More natural wonders and wonders in general, more units, a future era
If they want to make a case that all of these additions, and maybe more that I'm forgetting, aren't worth $40, I didn't see enough arguments for that in the article. It doesn't really feel informative to me.

I had skimmed over the Polygon article and then reread it after your comments and agree with your assessment. Much like the blind review by Robert Zak @ PCGames, the author seems upset that the game doesn’t match his opinion on the timetable global warming and is not “nice” enough for his tastes.

At first glance, I suspected there would be a mound of rubbish to sort through when I saw that he had snuck in a reference to his company’s name (Polygon) with his opinion of the games treatment of global warming (Pollyanna).

This Colin fellow’s faux (ill)umianations are more consistent with enteric ruminations than a game review! My best guess his he’s had a few too many cans of Campbell’s BBQ’ed Beans. You will pardon me if I mix the themes of global warming with an opinion piece on gaming journalism, but it seems in keeping with the article. Half of the article strikes me as irrelevant to the subject matter and I am taxed to find an appropriate metaphor. By best attempt at an affirmative metaphor for the article’s logic might with the diverse course a mighty river might carve over time as it snakes its way through the landscape. This article seems smaller though, more petty. I’m thinking more of a babbling brook.

In his opening statement the fellow says Gathering Storm is “an improvement,” but “costs $40, which is poor value.” After which, he begins bashing in earnest.

After ranting about the games treatment of the (digital) environment and his own desire not to destroy the (digital) environment by playing “nice,” he goes on to diplomacy. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is cracking a joke on real world diplomacy by almost immediately stating the AI has been fixed, saying…

“Having played the DLC for a few dozen hours, it’s clear to me that enemies are less likely to behave stupidly than before. Their actions are generally explicable and based on reasonable interpretations of the world, from their point of view. This is a welcome fix, that ought to have been implemented (a) earlier and (b) without charge to long-suffering players.”

This is at odds with the consensus opinion who have played the game as well as what I’ve been able to see from the livestreaming.

In conclusion, this Polygon article parrots the hard line environmental ice caps are melting in 12 years (20 years ago) thesis and is more of a rambling diatribe on sleep habits and “value” (subjective) than a game review. More an environmental enforcers “hit piece” than game review. I also can’t help but get the feeling that this fellow will be coming for my digital army next and would have me competing with my neighbors in Civ VII to see who can grow the biggest and best crop of tulips.

Disclaimer: That rant felt good! I’m not really sure it’s quite as bad as all that, but feel quite inspired by the authors treatment of the game relative to his own agenda(s).
 
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I guess that's also a downside for me, and I've mentioned it in a few places: My focusing the negative effects of industrialization into a "Global Warming" mechanic that literally makes huge swaths of land go under water instead of making weather more violent and difficult to manage, it makes the game into a potential debate on the Chicken Little Sky Is Falling aspects of the global climate change discussion, which takes away from what could have been both a fun, challenging aspect of the game and an actual thought-provoking part of the game.
 
In his opening statement the fellow says Gathering Storm is “an improvement,” but “costs $40, which is poor value.”.

He's absolutely on the money there. :p
From my past experience, that will work out to more than 1/10 of a cent per hour!
Highway robbery!
 
I think rather than increasing the frequency of natural disasters, I'd like them to introduce disasters of a more human nature in a third expansion. Things like sanitation and unrest.
 
I think rather than increasing the frequency of natural disasters, I'd like them to introduce disasters of a more human nature in a third expansion. Things like sanitation and unrest.

Too dull and predicable.
After all the oilwells have been depleted, toxic substances seep back into the underground areas where they feed giant mutant ants that burst out just as you leave for Alpha Centauri.
They've hitched a ride on your spaceships, and you'll have them to contend with, instead of some hairy barbarian nincompoops.
 
Too dull and predicable.
After all the oilwells have been depleted, toxic substances seep back into the underground areas where they feed giant mutant ants that burst out just as you leave for Alpha Centauri.
They've hitched a ride on your spaceships, and you'll have them to contend with, instead of some hairy barbarian nincompoops.

I'm sold tbh
 
I guess that's also a downside for me, and I've mentioned it in a few places: My focusing the negative effects of industrialization into a "Global Warming" mechanic that literally makes huge swaths of land go under water instead of making weather more violent and difficult to manage, it makes the game into a potential debate on the Chicken Little Sky Is Falling aspects of the global climate change discussion, which takes away from what could have been both a fun, challenging aspect of the game and an actual thought-provoking part of the game.


From my understanding they are never going to Implement truly challenging or punishing mechanics.

Look at ages, a dark age is not so bad and they balanced it off by making it the only way to get a heroic age. It is almost a reward. Disasters too, they are more of a boost in yields than a real danger.

There are no civil wars, no slowing down of players pulling too far ahead like you would have with paradox games. There is no real threat from the ai being mad at you, no coalition wars an no dangerous hostility.


There is no downside to massive conquest, amenities are not so much of an issue and your empire does not risk civil wars, rebellions or slower tech growth.



This is the greatest barrier to civ in my opinion, it is afraid to punish the player and pose a challenge.




It assumes people are there for the sandbox and ultimately only want to win and build stuff and feel rewarded which is partly true and the reason why you have the one more turn syndrome.


I think they could really add much more depth if they were not so afraid of having mechanics hinder the player. It would also balance things off so that one cannot simply run away with tech and victory. Civil wars, stagnation of large empires which are not fighting wars or reduced tech, culture and growth for bloated empires would make it a more compelling game.
 
From my understanding they are never going to Implement truly challenging or punishing mechanics.

Look at ages, a dark age is not so bad and they balanced it off by making it the only way to get a heroic age. It is almost a reward. Disasters too, they are more of a boost in yields than a real danger.

There are no civil wars, no slowing down of players pulling too far ahead like you would have with paradox games. There is no real threat from the ai being mad at you, no coalition wars an no dangerous hostility.


There is no downside to massive conquest, amenities are not so much of an issue and your empire does not risk civil wars, rebellions or slower tech growth.



This is the greatest barrier to civ in my opinion, it is afraid to punish the player and pose a challenge.




It assumes people are there for the sandbox and ultimately only want to win and build stuff and feel rewarded which is partly true and the reason why you have the one more turn syndrome.


I think they could really add much more depth if they were not so afraid of having mechanics hinder the player. It would also balance things off so that one cannot simply run away with tech and victory. Civil wars, stagnation of large empires which are not fighting wars or reduced tech, culture and growth for bloated empires would make it a more compelling game.

This post absolutely hits the nail on the head!

This has the potential to be such a great game. The graphics are fantastic and the effort they put into developing the Civs and the leaders but the gameplay itself is so underwhelming. I only played 2 games of Rise and Fall before getting bored and giving up. I want this game to challenge me all the way to the end, to make me feel like I'm hanging on by my fingertips sometimes and when I win, to know I've had to fight for it. I won't be buying any more Civ expansions unless Firaxis can show they really get this and start addressing it.
 
I also agree completely. The game needs much more PvE difficulty added. It is a much easier task than improving the AI. I really hoped this is what dark ages would provide. But they really don't. Also natural disasters seem very tame
 
I'm sold tbh
Of course you are: it combines Civ, GS (aka Civ6 + Sim Earth) and Sim Ant.
Add mutant zombies to counter GDRs and I'd be happy for another year or two.
 
I think they could really add much more depth if they were not so afraid of having mechanics hinder the player. It would also balance things off so that one cannot simply run away with tech and victory. Civil wars, stagnation of large empires which are not fighting wars or reduced tech, culture and growth for bloated empires would make it a more compelling game.

It's generally simpler to make mechanics that are fun and simple as they are more likely to appeal to a broader audience. What one accepts as consequences is generally far more subjective.

So I think this is best left to mods really, and I think the Civ6 playerbase can produce challenges tailored to our liking that are better than any default packaging that has to appeal to more casual players.
 
From my understanding they are never going to Implement truly challenging or punishing mechanics.
The problem with really punishing mechanics is that it's very hard to keep it balanced between all players.
No, let me rephrase that: The problem is the randomness of the game and the effect of lucky (or unlucky) events.
One stroke of bad luck can put you out of the game.

Even the existence of goody huts and the location of natural wonders and city states are a bit iffy regarding balance.
The only way to 'balance' things like that (and other mechanics) is to decrease the impact it can have.
 
Yeah this is one of those areas where the multiplayer community and single player community differ.

With the weakness of the AI more challenging PvE elements could bring alot to the enjoyment of the game. However they could be seriously destructive for the multiplayer community
 
  • It's a shame that disasters and climate change aren't more frequent or more powerful, but then again they are brand new so there's hope for them to tweak this and possibly add more disasters (earthquakes, maybe even knock-on flooding in the form of tsunamis).
Well I'm sure the magnitude of natural disasters will be one of the first things that there will be mods for. Mark my words, someone will make some sort of "Ultra Extreme Unstable Planet" disaster level mod within the first few days of Gathering Storm's release
 
The problem with really punishing mechanics is that it's very hard to keep it balanced between all players.
No, let me rephrase that: The problem is the randomness of the game and the effect of lucky (or unlucky) events.
One stroke of bad luck can put you out of the game.

Even the existence of goody huts and the location of natural wonders and city states are a bit iffy regarding balance.
The only way to 'balance' things like that (and other mechanics) is to decrease the impact it can have.


But that makes the game fun too. To have some challenges is fun and you can always turn down the settings. Multiplayer balance is another matter and should be different.
 
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