September Patch Notes Discussion

Rosty K

King
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
961
I disagree.
"religious settlement is so good now, I take it all the time"
"oh no, now the AI does take it too - that's bad - I wanted to have it."
Really? It's a smart decision to take it so it's gone early, simple. Take another one.

Since it started to happen, I've found that Initiation Rites is quite good actually. At least fits my style quite well.
 

Stilgar08

Emperor
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
1,529
Location
Zeven, Germany (Lower Saxony ;)
Since it started to happen, I've found that Initiation Rites is quite good actually. At least fits my style quite well.
I generally tend to think more about what pantheon to take. Gee, in my actual game with Kupe I took God of the Sea - or the one with tundra is appealing for canada and Russia... Granted, religious settlement was already gone. ;)
 

Pfeffersack

Deity
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,167
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Germany
Not this patch I believe, but I just found out that when there is more than one Aid Request ongoing, the Send Aid project counts for all :D

Yes, it has been this way before the september patch. Not completely sure, if it is WAI or a bug, but I lean towards the latter.
 

Basajaun

Warlord
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Apr 3, 2019
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200
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Legazpi, Basque Country
I think terra map needs some adjustments:
The initial continent is svery small vs the number of initial cities that get placed on deity. They land way too close, and if they dont eliminate the player before T30, they engage in eternal wars for land. Nobody really tries to settle on the new world. Not even whatever AI has captured most cities and is on runaway. on modern era.
This defeats the purpose of the map type quite significantly, so maybe the spawn script needs to be adjusted a bit more, while making the map bigger relative to their size. As in, standard sized map in small map game, so everyone is a bit squished, but not touching borders from every angle since t30.
Plus, the city states that spawn on the new continent, end up spread in such a way that they barely leave room for anything other than some crammed coastal cities and such.
So, all in all, I think making the map bigger and adjusting the spawn could make the map work as it should, or at least better.
Slower speeds and higher difficulties aggravate this effects, as many times you will be DoWed, and and wiped out from the game before getting out the first warrior/scout whatever. A small sample with a french lady, previous game engleanor had her 3º city 4 tiles away from my capital, and was killed before I could even get the autosave at T10, and previous one Montezuma killed me in T18 too

Edit: Maybe make cities placed in new world have extra food or some similar bonus. Then maybe the AI considers doing it and could potentially trigger some nice naval warfare and a second expansive phase.

 
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kotpeter

Warlord
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Sep 28, 2017
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BY
I think terra map needs some adjustments:
The initial continent is svery small vs the number of initial cities that get placed on deity.
...
Slower speeds and higher difficulties aggravate this effects

Not every map type needs to be balanced around Deity difficulty. I'm not saying that certain adjustments to this map are not needed, however it's not quite on point to complain about civ placement because it makes Deity AI too strong.

I get what you're saying and I agree that spawn places could be moved further from each other. What I don't agree with is that the difficulty setting (or game speed) matters here anyhow. That's not what map is supposed to be balanced around; it's supposed to be designed fun and interesting to play at. You like islands? Pick island plates or smth like that. You like our homeland Earth? Pick Earth. You like continents? Continents it is, then. Continents + Islands or Terra for colonial gameplay, etc.

There are also competitive maps (clover, etc.) which are not particularly fun but hey, talks about difficulty and game speed are more relevant for those maps because those are supposed to be balanced inherently.

P.S. No offense mate, that's just my point of view that I wanted to share :)
 

Basajaun

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Legazpi, Basque Country
Not every map type needs to be balanced around Deity difficulty. I'm not saying that certain adjustments to this map are not needed, however it's not quite on point to complain about civ placement because it makes Deity AI too strong.

I get what you're saying and I agree that spawn places could be moved further from each other. What I don't agree with is that the difficulty setting (or game speed) matters here anyhow. That's not what map is supposed to be balanced around; it's supposed to be designed fun and interesting to play at. You like islands? Pick island plates or smth like that. You like our homeland Earth? Pick Earth. You like continents? Continents it is, then. Continents + Islands or Terra for colonial gameplay, etc.

There are also competitive maps (clover, etc.) which are not particularly fun but hey, talks about difficulty and game speed are more relevant for those maps because those are supposed to be balanced inherently.

P.S. No offense mate, that's just my point of view that I wanted to share :)

Of course man. Im not saying it has to be balanced around deity, it happens the same in lower difficulties, but its effects are less obvious, because Ai doesnt start with such massive bonuses and an army enough to take a city from turn 1. I have already completed 3 terra games on King, epic speed, and all 3, I was alone in the new world after winning SV, being the one victory condition that I could stretch out to see how and what Ai was doing.

They were still engaged between each other and treating the game as a pvp match in pangaea with less room. AI doesnt seem interested in New World at all, regardless of the speed/difficulty conditions, and I suspect that has a lot to do with the initial land size itself, because it forces very early bad relations and wars that drag very far in history.

Its just that those effects are much more obvious the slower, and harder you make the game.
 

Sostratus

Deity
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Jul 31, 2017
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Minnesota, USA
Not every map type needs to be balanced around Deity difficulty...
I get what you're saying and I agree that spawn places could be moved further from each other.
On really any of the difficulties where the AI starts with an extra settler (emperor+) the Terra map pretty much turns into the Thunder Dome within 30-40 turns. Most of the game devs we know like Ed etc play on king or lower though, iirc. Only Lord Carl the QA king plays on emperor. I don’t really mind since I’m assuming they wanted a strong push factor to settle the new world- it’s just the AI isn’t really aware of that.

But the point @Basajaun made about the new world is super accurate- you can hardly settle it because of the CS placement. There’s still lots of city spots but there’s few options for a triangle of cities or something to use an aura effect etc.
 

Victoria

Regina
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Apr 11, 2011
Messages
11,883
The Terra map is amazing to play on deity as Kupe.Playing it at the moment. If you cannot win Deity it is the one to play. Not even chopped anything yet.
Spoiler :

upload_2019-11-13_21-26-22.png

 
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smvalentine

Warlord
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Santa Clara, CA USA
Someone else suggested in another thread that you should drop the number of civs by 1 or 2 when playing on Terra to adjust for this.

I'm playing on a Lakes map and I will say the opposite is true here. I've managed to monopolize the resources of an entire small continent (and half of a smaller one) that were still empty well into the game.
 

Victoria

Regina
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Basajaun

Warlord
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Indeed. In fact playing on this map as Kupe is like playing prince but better
True, it was the first one I tried when I saw Terra, because I thought to myself; this is Kupes dreamland. Meet everyone sub t30, circumvent the world sub t50, and paint the continent red while people on the old world gut each other like theres no tomorrow.
 

Basajaun

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As a follow-up, a screenshot from Standard size Terra 6/8 civs 10/12 city states, Epic speed, King difficulty. This is just one turn after SV. Notice how there is only purple in new world (me) while AI prefers to settle twice in snow before settling in new world. I saw the Zulu exploring with a galley before I researched sailing, but I had the first envoy in all the new world city states. In fact switching to the 2 envoys for fist envoy card, and saving a couple points, once you meet the first one or 2, you can make quite the hilarious suzerain chain, and discover most of the continent and suzerain them all in less than 5 turns. Then send a couple scouts or horsemen to grab the gazillion tribal villages awaiting and enjoy. I did 3 diplo victories in a row almost passively like this while pursuing SV. First diplo victory in civ 6 ever btw.

Already played several games with same config, different leaders, and results are always the same. There has to be something wrong or missing, because AI actively explores and settles new continents on other map types by this time. Perhaps the lack of AI in the new continent is a deterrent to exploring until they discover resources unavailable in their lands? As of now, they just engage in war mostly. I would like to know if people are having different experiences with the Terra map.

 

tedhebert

Emperor
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Aug 6, 2016
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Montreal, Canada
I think the AI doesn't explore all that far... I always play huge maps, and I usually meet the civs that are NOT close to me because I AM the one doing the exploring... I barely ever see an AI unit from faraway civs running around in my lands
before renaissance or even industrial.
 

Pietato

Platonic Perfection
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Jan 9, 2014
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2,176
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New Zealand
I think the AI doesn't explore all that far... I always play huge maps, and I usually meet the civs that are NOT close to me because I AM the one doing the exploring... I barely ever see an AI unit from faraway civs running around in my lands
before renaissance or even industrial.

Just finished a huge small continents map as the Maori, and most of the AI never met everyone.
 
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