GEM Stage 2: Research
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
mitsho
Deity
That probably related to the Unoffical Patch side of the mod. It's kinda intended that you use that one as well if you play GEM... 
The latest version of CivUP hasn't been uploaded yet to the workshop or so, so that might be the problem...
The latest version of CivUP hasn't been uploaded yet to the workshop or so, so that might be the problem...
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Moving the bar where eras are split up doesn't really effect tech rate. If the early game is too short, we can lower science income and/or raise science costs. Both of these will be in gem's Cities stage where I have the yield balance changes.
@black213
Yes it includes stage 1. GEM requires the unofficial patch.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Engineering gives +1
on freshwater mines & lumbermills, allows bridges over water, unlocks forts, and unlocks the Great Wall. Forts deal damage to nearby enemies in vem/gem. The GW is useless in vanilla/gnk, but will be valuable in GEM like it was in VEM.
on freshwater mines & lumbermills, allows bridges over water, unlocks forts, and unlocks the Great Wall. Forts deal damage to nearby enemies in vem/gem. The GW is useless in vanilla/gnk, but will be valuable in GEM like it was in VEM.Engineering gives +1
Works for me!
Ahriman
Tyrant
The current GEM build doesn't seem to have the by-era tech cost increases that were in VEM. I haven't checked the numbers, but it certainly feels like the techs are flying by, ~7 turns per tech or so.
Am I missing something? Is this a deliberate design decision? I'd advocate for restoring the cost increases to slow the game a little and give a bit more time for doing stuff.
Am I missing something? Is this a deliberate design decision? I'd advocate for restoring the cost increases to slow the game a little and give a bit more time for doing stuff.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Which build is that... v1.03 beta or v1.04 alpha? In v1.04 I forgot to add the tech cost changes corresponding to the science income changes. Have no worries, tech pace will be the same as vem once I get things sorted out. 
Ahriman
Tyrant
1.03 beta.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I think the tech catchup mechanism may be exacerbating things.
A few other tech issues:
1. Industrialism is too easy to beeline - just economics as a requirement. It should also require Metallurgy. It feels ridiculous that I can have gatling guns without researching gunpowder!
2. Guilds is too weak now. One wonder, one national wonder and building wealth? Very weak.
3. Construction is arguably too strong; a unit, a wonder and two key buildings.
4. Why are mines boosted 1 hammer to 2 at iron working, but trading posts are boosted 1 gold to 2 at economics? There is far too long when trading posts aren't worth building.
5. Which tech requires coal? I have coal revealed, I have industrialism, but I can't build factories despite my mines on the coal tiles because I don't have a tech that activates it.
A few other tech issues:
1. Industrialism is too easy to beeline - just economics as a requirement. It should also require Metallurgy. It feels ridiculous that I can have gatling guns without researching gunpowder!
2. Guilds is too weak now. One wonder, one national wonder and building wealth? Very weak.
3. Construction is arguably too strong; a unit, a wonder and two key buildings.
4. Why are mines boosted 1 hammer to 2 at iron working, but trading posts are boosted 1 gold to 2 at economics? There is far too long when trading posts aren't worth building.
5. Which tech requires coal? I have coal revealed, I have industrialism, but I can't build factories despite my mines on the coal tiles because I don't have a tech that activates it.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
The tech catchup is the same as vem, so once we have everything in it should be unchanged. I think composite bows will work better on Mathematics. Right now that tech is mainly for conquerors, while bowmen would increase its appeal to defensive players.
The other things are bugs. The tech to trade a resource is shown when hovering over the resource. In this case, Coal is tradable at Steam Power, which was replaced by Industrialization in G&K, so it needs to be moved. I've done so now. Villages also provide 2 yield at the start to mine's 1, something else I forgot to enable, and did so now.
The other things are bugs. The tech to trade a resource is shown when hovering over the resource. In this case, Coal is tradable at Steam Power, which was replaced by Industrialization in G&K, so it needs to be moved. I've done so now. Villages also provide 2 yield at the start to mine's 1, something else I forgot to enable, and did so now.
Steam Power is still in the game, but it now comes after industrialisation. Which is probably where the problem was stemming from.
Ahriman
Tyrant
But the tech-cost adjustments by era are in, or not yet in?
It could just be that I build a science superpower and ignored spending any effort on religion in my current Tall empire game.
Industrialisation coming before Steam Power is just bizarre.
rhammer640
Russian Monk
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2010
- Messages
- 386
From what i remember someone saying, the tech-cost adjustment per era was going to be added after city changes or something. But I agree that it is definately needed. I dont focus on science and still they start coming way too fast after the classical era
Seek
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,773
I thought it was odd at first too, given that Steam Power has always been synonymous with Industrialization in the Civ franchise, but the fact remains that the Industrial Revolution began well before steam engines became efficient and widespread.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Well, it depends on what you call the industrial revolution. But it is weird to compare when the Industrial Revolution *began* with when Steam Power was widespread - one could equally say that when steam power began, the industrial revolution wasn't widespread.
And the main process of industrialization was entirely steam-powered, and the factories of the kind represented in game were most certainly steam-powered.
Steam power also feels like it should be a requirement for Railroads.
Maybe Industrialization should be called something else to adviod this historical confustion... "Mass Production" maybe?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I think they split it because both are important concepts in their own right. I agree the time difference does feel a little odd, though.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I'd consider just swapping them; steam power first, then industrialization.
Mass production feels like it would be even later; that sounds like assembly lines, which are more a 20th than 19th century thing.
Mass production feels like it would be even later; that sounds like assembly lines, which are more a 20th than 19th century thing.
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