General Beyond the Sword/Civ4 Tips/Strategies?

[Alsark]

Alright... so back when I played the original Civilization IV, I would almost consistently be in first place on Noble difficulty. Beyond the Sword comes along, and suddenly, I'm looking at consistent last placement. Clearly, the AI is now doing something right that it wasn't doing before. So I'd like for people to just give me general tips... just spew out any little thing that comes to mind and assume that I'm an uber noob.

Here's a brief summary of how I play (includes a question or two along the way):
- I'm very peaceful (I never declare war). In fact, I hate war so much, that when somebody does declare war on me, I feel like quitting. I don't, of course, but I may as well
- Generally I tend to lack military. What is a good general rule of thumb for how many soldiers to have in each city? Though I feel like no amount of soldiers can save me from the "stack of death" that often comes at me in Beyond the Sword.
- I cottage spam. I build a cottage in every single tile except for resource tiles.
- I refuse almost every time somebody asks me for tribute or when somebody asks me to stop trading to somebody.
- I generally don't pick people out who I do and don't trade with... I just trade with everybody. Is this a bad idea?
- I generally have about one worker per city.
- I feel like I don't expand that much, and yet, I feel like opposing settlers surround me so quickly that I haven't any room to expand. If I'm not going to be trying to claim cities via war, should I just build almost nothing but a bunch of settlers for quite awhile?
- My build order is usually: warrior (to increase population), worker, settler. After that, I usually build some domestic buildings.]
- When I found a religion, I generally don't place much importance on spreading it. Should I?
- I usually play as Darius. I like Financial and Organized, as well as the Apothecary. Given that I never have much of a military, the Immortal isn't a big deal for me.
- Generally the only wonder I really go for is The Oracle (generally I grab Metal Casting with this, as it'll be the longest technology). Is there anything else I should try to place a priority in grabbing?
- I don't really concentrate on great people very much (in any of my cities). When I do, I have EXTREMELY bad luck with getting the great people I want (for example, twice in a game where it said I had a ~95% chance of getting a Great Artist [I wanted a cultural victory], I got a Great Prophet :/).
- I generally don't use any sliders except the research slider, which I keep generally about one setting below the minimum profit maker (so if I make +1 gold at 70%, I go down to 60% so I can make +12 gold or whatever).
- I only accept technology trades that are in equal beaker trade values or if they are in my favor.

I suppose that's about it...

 

[Willem]

- Generally I tend to lack military. What is a good general rule of thumb for how many soldiers to have in each city? Though I feel like no amount of soldiers can save me from the "stack of death" that often comes at me in Beyond the Sword.

The best way to guage your military is to look at your Power graph in the Demographics screen. If you're at the bottom then you can expect a visit or two. You want to keep your Power rating in the top third to keep most of the other civs off your back. If you're the most powerful, then only wingnuts like Monty will dare declare war on you.

 

[ADP101]

i used to be the same, not declaring war and all. Now i learned that war is uber fun and u should definatly try it. Best way to play these games is always try something new or else it will get boring very fast

 

[Everest]

Hi Alsark,

yes, BTS is definitely more aggressive than previous versions, so military is more important than before. But here are the good news: The BTS AI still sucks at war, way more than it does in peaceful settling.

Being a builder myself, I know it's hard to give up that next nice building for those maliciously looking guys with axes. As Willem said, the powergraph is a good rule of thub. Even on a smaller map, you want to have at least one city that is for military use only. Barracks, hammer improvement and then units, units, units. You'll need them as much as they'll need you.

- I refuse almost every time somebody asks me for tribute or when somebody asks me to stop trading to somebody.

So did I. Make friends and enemies out there. Play nice with your friends and play your enemies.

If I'm not going to be trying to claim cities via war, should I just build almost nothing but a bunch of settlers for quite awhile?

That would be overexpanding. I think your expansion is good as it is. If you hit the culture wall, consider "creating space".

- When I found a religion, I generally don't place much importance on spreading it. Should I?

Results may vary. If you have the holy shrine, every city with that religion brings you +1 (plus bank, etc.). If you manage to spread it enough within a neighbour civ, he may change to that religion and if you have it you get buddy points. Did I mention the ?

- Generally the only wonder I really go for is The Oracle (generally I grab Metal Casting with this, as it'll be the longest technology). Is there anything else I should try to place a priority in grabbing?

Many people like to try to grab the pyramids for an early switch to representation. But that's not a dealbraker in most situations.

Hope it helps.

 

[Alsark]

Eh, I dunno, war takes too long and I just don't like the risk of threats and the constant pillaging of my improvements.

I added two things to the list.

Haha... I'll give you an idea of how much my military sucks using the demographics feature. In my current game, which is the year 1090 AD (normal speed), it says I have 87,000 soldiers. The rival with the highest amount of soldiers has 258,000 soldiers. The average of my rivals is 198,333 soldiers. Meanwhile, my lowest rival has 118,000 soldiers.

Though my amount of land ranks 3/10, my population ranks 8/10. My production ranks 9/10, and my crop yield ranks 8/10.

 

[DMOC]

I read your first two bullets and didn't bother to read any further since I just found out where you need to strengthen your game.

War.

 

[Crowqueen]

Stonehenge is good in the early game as is the Great Wall. Without the Wall you are vulnerable to barbarians and I get it 9 times out of 10 so that they can't come in and, more importantly, they can't enter new cities' boundaries when I settle away from my main hub during the early stages of the game. By the time civilisations occupy most of the board you are not going to have trouble with the odd archer or swordsman wandering around, but in the stages where you are operating at the edge of your resources it will make all the difference to have the Wall as it not only protects the cities you have built at the time you get it but also those you later found and it never expires. On maps like Highlands, Plains and Inner Sea - as well as, I guess, Pangaea - it works perfectly, since the trade-off is that once you start settling on islands or other continents you don't get the bonuses to defense there. However it is still a good thing to aim for even on a map where you are settled on multiple landmasses.

Darius is fun, but there are a lot of other leaders with either Financial or Organised that are just as good. What difficulties do you play on? I am still on Chieftain and I find it easy to get quite far with Financial on maps that have coastline and Organised on ones that don't, and then there is another trait left over like Spiritual or Creative and so on. Zara Yaqob, for example, is good at completely spamming the board with cities. My next challenge will have to be playing with a leader that has neither Financial nor Organised, since I tend to go for as much expansion as I can get away with and always make sure I am in the "green" before I settle more cities. Pushing research down, as far as I can see, has little effect on the overall time it takes to get technology at lower levels (haven't tried anything above Warlord and my only Warlord game was a complete disaster!) but all the same it is better to keep it as high as possible to make sure you get the benefits of the race to particular technologies like the ones needed for the various religions, the Great People you get when you get e.g. Music, Communism, Fascism and so on.

The minimum defense you need is one unit per city. Archers, Longbowmen and Machine Gun are the best defensive units; Grenadiers are OK in the intermediate stages. I don't normally start wars until there is either something to invade or I have enough of a head start on another player to make sure he is sitting with catapults and longbowmen in his cities which I am pounding with artillery and tanks, but that is probably a feature of playing at a lower level. War means you take a financial hit so make sure you are well in the green when you attack so you can lose revenue and still make a profit; I build a lot of the money-making buildings like Market, Bank and Grocer (as well as Courthouse) alongside my military units so that I have enough "green" to see me through to the end of the war and maintain the new towns I take during it.

 

[Iranon]

War... is good for many things. If two civs are at one another's throats and you stay neutral, you are likely to sour the relations with both. They will constantly pester you to join, to stop trading with the other and so on until both dislike you.

It's safer to take sides: With brownie points for being a war ally, one civ will love you and the other will fade into insignificance if all goes well. Both will be useful; it is very convenient to have a whipping boy (or girl) on the same continent as many warmongers will attack the easiest victim.
Therefore, it might be in your interests to keep that whipping boy alive. They're taking your flak even if they hate you and refuse to trade.

Technology trading is an invaluable tool for getting ahead; don't shy away from deals that are 3:2 against you. If you trade the same tech to several AIs, you will come ahead of them all even if each individual deal isn't favourable.
Mansa Musa does this, and Mali is usually one of the most advanced civs.
If an AI has a lot of money, sell your techs instead - the AIs consistently overvalue techs in comparison to gold.

 

[Jerrymander]

Build more units. With Hereditary Rule, your cities are happier, too, with more units. Having a size 14 city before 1 AD never felt so good.

Building more units is, I think, the most major difference between Warlords AI and Beyond the Sword AI. Now they just go crazy sometimes.

 

[Kawalimus]

Aggressors in this game have a major advantage. You always want that war to be fought on their turf, not yours.

Having a city that pumps out military units is important, you want to put great generals in there, have the heroic epic, and barracks, and anything else that can give units experience when they're created. So that city can produce great units fast. West Point and Heroic Epic are great to combine. Also if you get that far, get the Pentagon wonder. I've had units start out at level 5, this is an extreme advantage.

Slavery is a good civic to have since you can produce a lot of units if you need them, if their main stack is headed to you.

The AI seems to concentrate their military into one big stack. If you are aggressive and defeat the stack and keep producing good units, chances are they will never recover from it. I'm up to Prince now and this stuff still works, I just won a domination with Sumeria.

Even if you don't want to go to war, you should still have the city that's made for producing good military units quickly. So turn on Raging Barbarians and get the great wall and go after em to gain more experience and get great generals for your military city.

I was bad at military too when I started playing BTS but now I'm a lot better and I can beat almost anyone in any type of battle. You just can't ignore the military because the AI see that like a shark sees blood in the water. They want your cities and production, wonders and land.

 

[Titus]

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of their women.

 

[PaulusIII]

Build a bigger military and wage war more often. If they're asking you for tribute and you refuse there's a good chance you will end up in war against that civilization. If you have a large military they'll be asking you nicely instead of threatening you. The only way of keeping the AI from declaring war is to have a stronger military. (Except Mad Monty )

Too much cottage spam is a bad thing. You also need production tiles: mines, workshops, and watermills. Have you never had trouble with getting out the buildings which increase your beaker/money output? More production also helps your military a great deal.

 

[PreLynMax]

I read your first two bullets and didn't bother to read any further since I just found out where you need to strengthen your game.

War.

His key point is to avoid war... Like myself, he does not build military to wage wars and be a complete psychopath but to defend his own country, but I still think he shoud build more military to defend himself with.

Whenever I start wars, It always (99.99...% of the time) tends to screw up my ecomony and I wind up having to start over. Ignore the newbies. War is never the answer if it alters your strategy. And personally, I use almost the exact same strategy you use and win.

 

[Grawss]

His key point is to avoid war... Like myself, he does not build military to wage wars and be a complete psychopath but to defend his own country, but I still think he shoud build more military to defend himself with.

Whenever I start wars, It always (99.99...% of the time) tends to screw up my ecomony and I wind up having to start over. Ignore the newbies. War is never the answer if it alters your strategy. And personally, I use almost the exact same strategy you use and win.

Dedicating a single city to produce nothing but units (and hammer multiplying buildings like a forge) for the entire game solves the military problem entirely, and makes it so you can go to war when necessary without altering your strategy.

Why a war would alter your strategy is beyond me; one should never be surprised by a war. A stack of 50 units waltzes into my territory, and takes at minimum two turns to get to a city, and two turns to bombard it down to 10% or less defense. With a smart setup, that entire stack is down to 30 units who've all been damaged, zero siege and the next turn they all either throw themselves against my near-fully-healed stack or die.

A defensive military uses offensive units, not defensive. A single warrior in every city is all you need for the entire game. Keep fast moving or well placed offensive units in key locations and those warriors can play checkers for the rest of the game.

 

[one2tieyourshoe]

Dedicating a single city to produce nothing but units (and hammer multiplying buildings like a forge) for the entire game solves the military problem entirely, and makes it so you can go to war when necessary without altering your strategy.

I just can't bring myself to do this, no matter how hard I try. I just can't not upgrade my cities across the board.

I'm trying to break this habit, but I can't. I just can't. I'm addicted.

 

[Everest]

I just can't bring myself to do this, no matter how hard I try.

I see. What has helped me is try a different approach for one game: I started with an agressive civ (like the vikings) and disabled every win but domination. So I HAD to go to war early on and make use of that free upgrade.

I assure you: Your next "normal" game will feel much different.

@Alsark: I understand. You do not wish to go to war at all with BTS. That is okay, so choose the appropriate setting. Play on an easier level, chose other civs that are peaceful too (you know, better Gandhi than Montezuma) and try to get an isolated start (one where you have an entire island for yourself). Makes your "peacemonger"-live easier, since you don't have to settle that fast to secure the land for later and the AI still has a hard time invading overseas (although it does much better now than earlier).

That is really all you can do it you are a pacifist.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums Everest.

 

[PreLynMax]

Dedicating a single city to produce nothing but units (and hammer multiplying buildings like a forge) for the entire game solves the military problem entirely, and makes it so you can go to war when necessary without altering your strategy.

I already have one or two cities (sometimes three) production/military base cities, I still would be outnumbered militarywise 10/1. When asked to go to war, I almost always say no.

Why a war would alter your strategy is beyond me; one should never be surprised by a war. A stack of 50 units waltzes into my territory, and takes at minimum two turns to get to a city, and two turns to bombard it down to 10% or less defense. With a smart setup, that entire stack is down to 30 units who've all been damaged, zero siege and the next turn they all either throw themselves against my near-fully-healed stack or die.

As I said earlier, but the time I have time to gather ALL my units (here's where the computer cheats beyond the Warlord level) they would have 50 units walking into my cities to raze them. Even with a smart setup, or a balanced setup, I would lose one of my cities and I would be looking for the exit button after that.

And yes, they do throw siege units into the mix, making it very hard to defend. That's why it's best for me to avoid any war if possible. Ultilizing a attack party will only leave my cities undefended and they could be taken out.

To be more discriptive, I placed a defensive band of two acrhes and three warriors in one of my production cities hoping it would hold out against thier one archer, one catapult and one warrior, but they ended up raizing that city (mowing my five units with thier three) and forcing me to quit.

A defensive military uses offensive units, not defensive. A single warrior in every city is all you need for the entire game. Keep fast moving or well placed offensive units in key locations and those warriors can play checkers for the rest of the game.

True, but offensive units can also used to defend your cities, and that's mostly how I handle military wise affairs. Deplomacy is my game, and I never, ever intice wars if I can't afford it, and that's almost every time. I just can't risk it. Maybe because I have been in drawn-out wars that slowed my ecomony and forced me to retire. And no, a single warrior in every city is not all I need, I need at least 10-12 military units in every city (12-15 cities, a total of 144-160 military units) to feel safe before foccussing on other aspects of this game. Call me paranoid, call me obsessive, but by producting constant military units I prevent warmonger nazi jerks from razing my cities.

There is one other comment where I agree with you though, placing warriors (I'm guessing you're talking about early game strategies) on key places will only slow down the units (mainly barbarians and animals, but NOT a war party), but they always manage to get the advantage military-wise.

And what if I do go on the offensive? Well, no matter how many units I set for raising they would wind up fortifying thier units into that city and defend it not matter what. The only major exception is when I'm technology superior and are two eras ahead of them. Now only will they do that, but they will start marching up my borders on my newly undefended cities.

Now I know what you may be saying. "They only attack you when you are weak", or "The best defense is a good offense", but it seems like no matter how much I try I can never get the upper hand military wise. So deplomacy is my only way to survive, and through deplomacy, I can always bribe my allies to fight whomever is threaten me.

 

[Khift]

The key to Darius, in my opinion, is to war early and build late. Recently I've been playing Darius almost exclusively, because his style fits my style and my goal is this: two civilizations wiped out before 1 AD, then spam settlers, then spam workers, courthouses, doing anything to jump-start your overextended economy. Next thing you know, you're building space ship parts in 1700 AD.

Darius works like this because of his three part strategy:

One -- the Immortal, an excellent, fast and cheap early UU. Research Animal Husbandry right from the start of the game, get your first settler over to the nearest horse, connect your two cities, build a barracks in both, and spam Immortals until you have 10-15 of them. Declare war on your nearest and squishiest neighbor. Don't stop spamming until your nearby opponents are dead.

Two -- the Organized trait. In a small civilization, this trait will save you perhaps 10 commerce per turn. In a huge civilization, it can save you hundreds per turn. Once you've re-settled all that land you've claimed by murderously razing all your opponents cities (except capitals and holy cities, of course) this trait makes the difference between your economy tanking, bringing your research to 10%, and barely scraping through to lead us to the next part of the strategy...

Three -- the Financial trait. Financial plus cottages equals good. Financial plus lots of cottages equals really good. Financial plus metric ****tons of cottages equals amazing. Eat your peaceful, building heart out. Build tons of workers, and cover the land in a blanket of cottages and windmills. Make sure to set aside a couple river cities for production and one high-food city for a GP farm, of course, but everything else can serve the purpose of getting you to that spaceship ASAP. Or, if you'd rather, getting yourself enough of a tech lead and production lead that you can declare war on the entire rest of the map and mop up their musketmen with your modern armor. Your choice, really. It doesn't matter -- you've won, so enjoy it.

Remember, you WILL fall behind at the beginning of this strategy. But by the time you've hit the industrial age you will have a tech lead and your pace of research will be twice that of the second in line. So don't lose hope.

Early war = key to winning this game. Skipping the early war allows for you to feel like you're accomplishing something because you gain a tech lead and you get those "key" early wonders like... uh... pyramids? But in truth your lead is ephemeral and a larger civilization will end up overshadowing your five city all cottage pillow of a civilization before long anyways.

 

[Everest]

I already have one or two cities (sometimes three) production/military base cities, I still would be outnumbered militarywise 10/1.

Was that on Chieftain? How big was the map?

(here's where the computer cheats beyond the Warlord level)

I didn't understand that just yet. As far as I know, the only cheating it does is getting more units at the start and a production bonus on the higher levels. The AI can not move faster than you can. You don't need 15 units everywhere but insted 30 of them in a good stack near your border cities. The enemy can move 1 tile per turn, you got streets.

And yes, they do throw siege units into the mix, making it very hard to defend. That's why it's best for me to avoid any war if possible.

Or why the experienced player destroys most of them before they attack.

(mowing my five units with thier three)

Okay, that really was bad luck. The same thing could have happened to me, just that I rarely build archers but axemen.