General strategy for an offensive war?

[1940LaSalle]

Here's the setup: as usual, I'm Bismarck; the target in question is Carthage. According to the military advisor, I have a strong military compared to the opposition (for what it's worth, my score on the histogram is at present ~4x that of Carthage). I also hold a technological advantage over Carthage (they may not even have firearms). So: how to proceed? Should I soften up a worthy target with artillery (i.e., cannon fire) and then mop up with veteran infantry or cavalry?

Oh, before I forget: in no way am I in any violation of Carthaginian territory at the moment. I'm just waiting for a reasonable opportunity (= excuse) to eliminate a small rival and take over whatever resources they might have.

 

[Jokeslayer]

Here's the setup: as usual, I'm Bismarck; the target in question is Carthage. According to the military advisor, I have a strong military compared to the opposition (for what it's worth, my score on the histogram is at present ~4x that of Carthage). I also hold a technological advantage over Carthage (they may not even have firearms). So: how to proceed? Should I soften up a worthy target with artillery (i.e., cannon fire) and then mop up with veteran infantry or cavalry?

Oh, before I forget: in no way am I in any violation of Carthaginian territory at the moment. I'm just waiting for a reasonable opportunity (= excuse) to eliminate a small rival and take over whatever resources they might have.

You need an end goal. If it's total conquest, I'd hit production centres first, then everything else. If you're only after a specific town/resource or two, take those first, then weak targets to get them to the table.

Bombard first, kill second is always a good plan vs. backwards civs (although if it's cavs vs. spears I wouldn't wait for the cannons to catch up; lots of cavs vs. pikes I probably wouldn't everywhere, though I'd use them at first to keep losses down, especially if you're a republic or democracy)

 

[Decebalus]

Sounds like you're the bored bully on the street with the biggest stick just looking to pick a big fight.
Not that there's anything wrong with that at all.

I get the feeling your goal is total annihilation. But to achieve that I would set some intermediate goals.


Some things to do:

1. Scope out as much of the visible territory as possible looking for resources. Look for that saltpeter, iron, etc... in their territory. If they're within easy reach of either your border or a coastline I would make those top priority. Try and get to them and pillage the improvements. Take out their resource early and you might be fighting a nice little war against nothing but spearmen and archers in the end.

2. If your border with this CIV is with some low end cities far from their core it might be worth looking for an alternate route. You want to take out the core cities as fast as possible so they don't start cranking out units that will make your life hell till you get to them. So try to find the fastest path to go to get to them. It might be harder on resourses, but I find that having two fronts is better. AI seems to be too dumb to handle two threats at the same time.

Getting to the core cities is not that easy in some cases, but if say they were close to the coast, I would rather load up my armies into boats and start the attack from the sea.

For this to work though make sure you have quite a few defensive units with your attack to repel the eventual counterattack. I know a lot of people advocate only offensive units in all games, but with the tactic I mention here you need defense. You will be cutoff for a while from re-enforcements and you don't want to be loosing the expensive offensive units in defensive action.

I once took out about 90% of a CIV in a massive D-Day style landing in the middle ages in just 2 turns. They were on a peninsula that was fairly narrow and bordered me on a small two town frontier. About 15 cities or so in total. I simply garrisoned my border towns really well, and placed all my invading army on Caravels and distributed them just offshore of their coastal towns. Took longer to initiate and build this attack then it would have if I attacked straight. But I used one turn to land another a second turn to attack. After the attack were left with something like 3 tiny useless cities.

3. Think of your re-supply line. If you plan on going route 2. then make sure you have enough units to then advance to the conquered core cities from your own border in a decent amount of time. Those defenders you brought and initial attackers will slowly be dying off from counterattacks.

4. While diving head first into this war give a quick thought to your ass as well. If there are chances of getting into trouble with another civ during this war, especially on the other side of your empire, make sure you are prepared. Know what you will do in that case. How to either stall such an invasion, or how to drop this war quickly and re-distribute your forces. Again, if you have coast, maybe build a few ships as a standby to carry your troops quickly from one spot to another.

 

[1940LaSalle]

Well, sure. It's a result of Anthony's Law of the Instrument (give a kid a hammer and that kid will find that everything encountered requires brisk pounding).

Anyhow, let's talk about goals, if we may. Unless I missed something, one possible means to victory in C3C (which I'm playing) is finishing on top in the scoring when time runs out. (Yeah, I realize that would be kind of a low-grade win.) Assuming that's feasible, I'm not all that interested in a massive far-flung empire that would likely be high maintenance, but to have a sizable overall advantage in technology and arms such that victory-by-high-score is pretty much inevitable. If that means steamrolling two-bit pipsqueaks like the Carthaginians....well, all I can say to them is they better learn to like sauerkraut in a hurry.

 

[Spoonwood]

Usually, or at least by the forum in general around here, a histographic victory doesn't count as a "low-grade" win. In fact, it usually gets rated higher than any other victory condition for those who like to rank victory conditions.

For a *high scoring* histographic game, you really only want research to Replacable Parts (for faster workers) and Sanitation (for hospitals). Other than that you don't need or want research. It's better to raise the luxury slider earlier for happiness, as each happy citizen scores you 2 points, a content citizen scores you 1, and an unhappy citizen doesn't score you any points. The exception comes as having military problems... in other words you can't take the world with just cavalry armies and artillery proper. But, with the strategy here http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/artillery_effective.php you probably won't need research past Sanitation and Replacable parts other than scientist research.

Also, for a *high scoring* histographic victory, you want a large, far-flung empire as the more territory you have, the higher the score. As long as you don't crack over the domination limit.

 

[1940LaSalle]

Spoonwood, thanks for setting me straight: I had gotten the impression that domination, conquest, and diplomatic victories were the preferred avenues, for lack of a better term.

Funny you should mention sanitation: that's in progress right now, sort of by design. I figured that I didn't need disease getting in my way, so very quickly after getting into the industrial age, I went after medicine and then sanitation. I think that'll be done in 3 turns, for what that's worth.

About the empire size: I'm on the edge of establishing some "overseas" cities, which should help. My fault, though, for not doing this sooner: from what I can discern, it's going to be like Germany in the real-life scramble for Africa, wherein the Germans got what was left that nobody else really wanted (German Southwest Africa; Togo; etc.). Still, with a techno/military advantage, it may be possible to muscle in on other powers' overseas territories by simple building of more cities.

 

[The Professor]

LaSalle: You may have gotten that impression because doing a full-blown histographic game is extremely time-consuming, and a lot of people (myself included) prefer a game that can be finished without a long-term commitment. However, as Spoonwood said, for those people who are interested in the Hall of Fame, and getting extremely high scores, histographic games are the ultimately challenge in micromanagement.

In reality, diplomatic games are probably among the least common, because if you keep your reputation clean, you can ally yourself against your UN vote rival(s), and win almost automatically. The hardest part--at higher levels--is timing a pre-build well, so that you can build the UN in time.

Be careful about researching Sanitation: it allows you to build hospitals, which allows cities to grow beyond size 12. While this can be good, cities above size 12 produce a LOT of pollution--even without factories, manufacturing plants, etc. Make sure to have plenty of workers on hand to clean up pollution, because your cities can work a tile that is polluted. Some people avoid researching Sanitation, just so they don't have to deal with the pollution headaches.

In general, the AI will build cities everywhere on the map, as soon as they can possibly find empty land. It is rare for there to be any space left at the beginning of the Industrial Age, unless it is on an island separated by an expanse of ocean, because the AI won't cross ocean until it has Magnetism or Navigation, which allows boats to cross safely. The human player has the advantage of being able to take a risk and send a boat into unsafe waters, and sometimes make it safely to dry land. This allows you to colonize deserted islands before the AI can do so.

 

[Spoonwood]

Funny you said this

You may have gotten that impression because doing a full-blown histographic game is extremely time-consuming, and a lot of people (myself included) prefer a game that can be finished without a long-term commitment. However, as Spoonwood said for those people who are interested in the Hall of Fame

Because my first HoF histographic game I had a score of 178 and it took me barely three hours with very little micromanagement. I thought you might have read my thread "lazy ruler's guide to a histographic victory" (no link... that's self-promotion, right?). O.K., of course you went on to say

and getting extremely high scores, histographic games are the ultimately challenge in micromanagement.

And I agree with you there. Then again, you certainly don't need to play a histographic game that way if you don't want to.

 

[The Professor]

Spoonwood: No, I've never read your post on your quick histographic victory, although I am somewhat interested in how you win a histographic victory with 178 points. I find that I am a very slow player--typically taking 25 to 30 hours to play a game on a standard map--which, combined with the fact that I have at best 5 hours of civ time a week, makes me reluctant to try something that will go the full 540 turns, even if a good number of those turns involve hitting enter.

 

[Spoonwood]

25 to 30 on a standard map sounds pretty quick to me. Granted, I have a computer that uses Windows ME (i.e. it's old and slow), but still... my Demi-God Maya Histographic game reads 75 hours (maybe throw out some hours as I left the computer running and did other things... like watch StarGate). 178 points? I had one before that where I scored 63 points. Unfortunately, that wouldn't place in the HoF tables.

Here's the link to my "guide" http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299691 I'll copy it, since it's short for you:
The lazy ruler's guide to a histographic victory in 10 steps
Of course there's the jaguar warrior rush, but for something different...

1. Play as Carthage or France on an 80% pangea map at a low level (Cheiftain, Warlord, maybe Regent, I think Monarch possible for this strategy, I don't know about Emperor). I prefer Carthage for a coastal start. The smaller the map size, the better (tiny over small, small over standard, etc.)
2. Play with as few opponents as you can.
3. Make sure you have ivory.
4. Build your city and start on The Pyramids.
5. Research Mathematics first.
6. When you learn Maths, swap from The Pyramids to the Statue of Zeus.
7. After the Statue of Zeus, go out exploring with ancient cavalry.
8. Start attacking enemy cities, don't formally declare, just attack. I'd suggest having 2 ancient cavalry before you attack.
9. Once you're down to one tribe, surround the last remaining city with ancient cavalry.
10. Make peace with that tribe eventually, and sign a right of passage with that tribe so your ancient cavalry will stay in their borders and they can't move anywhere.

This actually comes as extremely detailed, so the strategy actually comes out a lot simpler than it may seem here.

I kept cities for a bit in the 178 point game (small Chieftain map). I didn't keep cities in the 63 point game (tiny Chieftain map).

 

[dementedseabass]

Generally, I would land a major force near his capital or other convenient major city, and simply roll through his territory capturing cities as I go. This gives your forces bases to retreat to in order to heal up when they're damaged. It's also prudent that you don't go to fast for risk of overextending yourself, unless you have a large enough force that you can just blitzkrieg his whole empire.

Another trick is to land a smaller force elsewhere to act as a distraction, possibly by pillaging some of his territory.