General Strategy Thoughts and Questions

[gadams]

Howdy all. This is my first post here, though I'm far from a Civ newbie. I've been playing since the get-go. As for my skill level: I can consistantly win (and essentially choose my winning method) on Warlord, but Noble is giving me some trouble. I just can't seem to get a good initial foothold.

With that said, I'd like to make some observations and get your thoughts:

Initial Technology: Religion (Buddhism or Hinduism, usually) -> Bronze/Iron
- This seems to leave me hurting for money, early on.

The more initial cities I build, the less money I take in. Getting the gold to flow in the positive direction early on has proven quite hard. Any thoughts on how to alleviate that? Should I just be building more cottages? Or maybe mucking with specialists.

Open borders: I never allow the computer players into my borders. Is this a bad idea? If I have a major religion, then this seems to be fine. However, if I have a "third-party" religion, and I don't allow their missionaries in (and vice-versa), they eventually get angry and attack.

Initial attacks: how long do you usually wait to attack a neighboring Civ?

Thanks for listening.

 

[balthamael]

Perhapos not openeing borders is part of your monetary failings?
OB gets you extra cash from trade routes.

Try building alot of cottages, and selling/trading tech with the AI.

 

[balthamael]

...and about the initial attack, i usualy wait for catapults before hand, and make sure i have copper/iron, but it depends on ur personal situation.

 

[Sid the Lucid]

I am no expert at the game, but I will offer what help I can.

If going for an early religion is hurting you, then don't worry so much about it. Settle for a later religion. The computer will often beat you to the early ones anyway, which potentially wastes precious time when you can least afford to waste it.

Open borders is not a bad thing. Sometimes it can be good to close borders, like if you want to seal off part of the map for later expansion, but it ultimately hurts your trade and the chance of your religion spreading. I would say it's best to go Open Borders by default, only closing them for a particular reason. The AI seems to like it when you allow Open Borders too, making them more likely to go for tech trades and such (or maybe that's just my imagination - I have no real data on the subject).

Cottages are probably the best improvement you can build, and if you are hurting for money then chances are you are not building enough of them. Also, go for Currency when you get the chance. It makes a huge difference.

Initial attacks: hard to give a general rule here. It is situational. Depends on what civs are your neighbors, what civ you are playing, what resources you start with, and your position on the map. Not too mention your play-style. Some people, like some AIs, like to warmonger, while others prefer a peaceful game. It is certainly possible to win on Noble without instigating war ever (although you may still have to wage war if attacked).

edit: Was posting at the same time as balthamael. I agree with what he said. He had a good point about Catapults - they are very worth it, especially for taking cities with a high defensive %.

 

[Wreck]

On religion, you don't have to get the early ones, but it is nice. And on noble, the AI has no advantage so you can do it if you choose to. But be aware that you're paying a price - delaying other techs that you'll need. In general it's best to either beeline for religion, or don't aim for early religion at all. If you pass on the early religions, that will probably result in AIs getting Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. That's OK: you can get one of the later religions. Or you can take one of the holy cities.

On money: cottage! And don't forget to work the cottages, else they'll never grow into lucrative towns. I always turn off city automation, but I expect you can get the governor to work them by selecting the "focus on commerce" button.

Don't mess with specialists. They are a very weak use for a pop, except for generating Great People. In general, you want one city with lots of specialists to make GPs, and no specialists in other cities.

 

[Grimz101]

Don't mess with specialists. They are a very weak use for a pop, except for generating Great People. In general, you want one city with lots of specialists to make GPs, and no specialists in other cities.

*cough* 20 cities mercentalisum for 1 extra specialist, statue of libery for 1 extra specialist, and representation is like 120 beakers a turn, which is a nice boost .
specialists i always get, for instance just did a roman pret rush, took 1/3 of map, made all cities do merchants with castle system, and suddenly from 0% science and units on strike, i was at 60% science with bests gnp since my empire was so vast and this was ancient times on monarch catapult not even invented yet

 

[Wreck]

They are a weak use for pop. If the specialist comes from something not pop - i.e, a wonder, or a super specialist - then they are fine.

As for your Roman game, well, bully for you. You'd do better cottaging than using specialists, at least in the long run. As for going to 60%, that's meaningless. By taking the pop off the land, what you did was convert a bunch of commerce and production income into specialists making relatively small amounts of gold. So, your total hammers+commerce shrank considerably, and of that reduced commerce amount you got 60%. You'd have richer, in the long run, by making just enough merchants to squeak by, while you cottaged everything. Fortunately, your position was strong enough that it didn't matter too much what you did. Controlling 1/3 of the world is like that.

 

[Grimz101]

yeah i kept merchants and chopped courthouses on cities, only when forbidden palace was up i was able to get rid of all merchants.

 

[gadams]

Thanks for the thoughts all. I'm glad you mentioned that you wait for catapults before attacking. That what I was doing, but it just seemed like too long. The open borders thing is huge, thanks for that. I did not realize that that will directly impact my trading (big duh). Perhaps that will alleviate my monetary situation...

Time to go try that out...

 

[Grimz101]

dont really need catapults if you use pretitorians, they can attack capital with no losses, unless they have axemen, but i pillage and fortify on their iron and copper, you can take all their cities with swordsmen except their capital maybe, where a few might have to be sacrificed, might work if you have aggressive trait too. catapults is waiting too long in my opinion, attack while archers are there and axemen are just starting!

 

[Muz]

Hey, don't knock specialists! Specialists are good, except for the Citizen and maybe the Artist. The main disadvantage of a specialist is that they can't collect food, but they help a LOT towards making Great People, especially when you create a National Epic in the city. I always get an engineer whenever possible, since Great Engineers help a lot towards making wonders (might have something to do with me taking engineering in RL as well ).

For money:
1. Cottages! They seriously boost money in the long run, but too many and you won't have enough food to work them taxpayers. The biggest problem is when enemy raiders come in and pillage your towns, making years of migration completely worthless. Focus them in cities deep in your territory (like your capital city).
2. Open borders! Only way your civilians can trade. In the late medieval ages, my main trading port with a harbor generated 8+7+5+5 = 25 (million) gold worth of trade alone!
3. Coastal cities + Great Lighthouse. The great lighthouse practically doubles your trade income from coastal cities. Not only that, but coastal cities can also trade when all your roads are being razed.
4. Markets, groceries, libraries. All very slow to make, but worth it once they're finished. I prefer the library first as most of the time I have > 60% research.


As for attacking, I don't attack anyone, they attack me. Saves me a whole lot of diplomatic problems when you declare war on their friends (and the good citizens don't like it either). You can p.o. a rival enough to anger them by refusing to join their religion, demanding tribute, having too much of your culture in their lands, trading with their enemies, so many choices that I end up in a war by the middle ages.

Alternatively, you can immediately declare war on an enemy if he claims the spot with all the iron/elephants/horses, gives you an early, well needed head start. After a while, they start to fortify their walls, build plenty of defenses, etc... making wars long, tough, and tiring.

 

[Kenji]

hm....i feel that specialist is more flexible.
u can always switch to beaker scientist or hammer engineer.
but cottages(towns) cannot flip to hammer then flip back to towns in next turn.

 

[Aristonico]

Ummm....

Well, I am just playing at the lowest levels, the biggest possible map and at the slowest possible rate.

What I noticed is:

1. When you found a new city, your income gets reduced by one.
2. To generate something that produces income takes "long". The initial available buildigns for this are the religious one. But they first building only compensates the initial foundation value of the city.
3. Commerce has its benefits, so, your cities must be conveniently conected. As at the beginning you do not have roads, the best option is use waterways: if you first city is in a coast (sea or lake), the next one must be in the same coast; if it is in a river, the next one must be in the same river (this one to confirm but I think I am right on it).
4. Build workers and automate them. If oyu have gold close to your cities, mine it!

Back after ages

 

[TheNiceOne]

hm....i feel that specialist is more flexible.
u can always switch to beaker scientist or hammer engineer.
but cottages(towns) cannot flip to hammer then flip back to towns in next turn.

But specialists cannot make your city grow. Assume that you have one specialist and no city growth. By removing the specialist, you lose its effect, but you gain some money from the cottage (which will eventually be a lot of money when it becomes a town), and you gain 2 bonus food.

The 2 bonus food is very important, because in a number of turn, your city grows, and you will suddenly be able to not only work on the cottage, but also have the specialist. So after 10 turns or so, you still only have your specialist, while I have a worked village and a specialist.

 

[Termilyn]

Civ 4 is not Civ 3 where you needed to get as many cities and land as fast as you could. Your economy pays a steep price for you cities. Economy takes a hit means your research takes a hit so before long you have no money and you are behind in tech. Having said that a good start is still as important, you just have to go about it differently.

I build 3 cities to start. You should be able to easily support 3 cities and still keep the tech coming in. I usally also go for a 4th city if my economy can take it. I want science at no less than 70%. Rivers and coastal squares add to your income. Rivers connect cities to your capital without roads so your newer cities can share resources with the capital.

City placement is a key and there are several threads in here discussing this in length. I look for cities that can block access to land I can settle later and for cities that hook up resources. If you can block the AI out of an area you have a long time to settle that area.

Cottages are nice but are worthless if they aren't worked so make sure your population can work them while still growing. Specialists are good for later in the game but initialy you need to be working the tiles.

Open borders are good. They promote the spread of religions, gets the AI happy with you, helps trade, etc, etc. Always have open borders and don't cancel. The AI will eventually cancel them.

As far as war, know your UU and your neighbors UU. If you have an early UU, like Rome or the Inca, you need to take advantage of this and eliminate your closest neighbors. Don't forget pillaging gets you gold. If your neighbor has an early UU take him out before he gets them or make friends with him. The AI is less likely to attack if it is going to cost him trades or you share a common religion.

Even when I am going for a cultural win I don't worry about founding any religions. They will spread to your cities and you can still benefit from the religous buildings without a holy city. More important to build your infrastructure and get at least a defensive army (like archers) up before the AI learns you are dead last in tech and soldiers.

Im running on here, but the point is there is not one way to win or a "do this in this order to win" like Civ 3 had. More complexity and strategy involved now.
Have fun, it is a great game.

 

[gadams]

Good tips all around everyone.

First off, Praetorians rock! I was able to knock out my closest neighbor with minimal troops. Axemen proved to be troublesome, but I was churning out the Praets, so that worked out.

Open borders does indeed help things out, the AI was much happier with me in general. Well, until I attacked them. Plus, my religion spread like crazy, which was great.

Making $ in the beginning is still a problem, even with many cottages. Cottages are great, once they grow. In the beginning though... not so much. Either way, I'm comfortable with taking the hit on science to not lose $ for a little bit. That or make a city concentrate on $, if possible.

 

[KOS - Denmark]

HI!

Great Site! This is my firste time playing Civ IV, or CIV in general that is (eventhough im 23 )! Im Loving it!

I was wondering if any of you fanatics would give your opinion on the best strategy for the firste 10-15 rounds! Which buildings/units, what tech or techs and so on would be the best to start off with.

Thanks!

K