Geologists

[brinko]

its fairly too simple for a warrior to locate and discover iron and other resources. I can see a warrior locating luxuries such as grapes, silks, ivory etc. but i think it should require a geologist unit to discover and note on the map where vital resources are located. Iron, coal, oil, etc. of course this unit would have to be somewhat automated when built, to reduce the micromanagement involved. like a worker its options should be available to be selected for specific resources.

 

[Stid]

get workers to do it

 

[Slax]

Explorers?

 

[sir_schwick]

To make it slightly easier, whenever a worker/geologist surveys, they do the square they are in and all the adjacent squares. Of course the operation would take a minimum of certain turns for balance. Also, once ocean techs are avaliable, you could survey for Oil in coastal and Sea squares(one square survey at a time).

 

[wombatoftruth]

Well, keep in mind that up through antiquity, there were still surface deposits of things like iron, copper and gold in many parts of the world. It wasn't until we'd been using those metals for quite some time that we had to start digging under ground for them.

 

[brinko]

perhaps the geologist can do 2 squares per turn, but as new discoveries lead to new resources, the geologist will once again have to be called out.

it would almost be like a treasure hunt, searching for hidden resources and then exibiting their abundance, with sign posts.

maybe if it would please the masses, geologists should be made available in industrial age. they should be the only key to finding oil fields, of where one can build an oil pump, or oil station, by use of the worker.

 

[dojoboy]

Voted "no." I just feel this would just be one more unit to control, adding to the MM, with little rationale. Technology, and units, perform this function currently in the abstract. I would love for greater MM in cIV, as long as it takes the part of government sliders, economic sliders, religious tolerance sliders, etc.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

The resource could just pop up after you've been there with a unit a few turns or if it's in your cultural sphere.

 

[rhialto]

I agree with Loppan. It's enough to have them become visible when they enter your cultural sphere. Perhaps map trades should include an option as to whether to include known resources, units, cities, and improvements (and even toggle these separately from each other). I'd say that any resource should become visible if your unit (any unit) walks over the tile, and maybe a 5% per turn for undiscovered stuff in your territory.

 

[ybbor]

good recreation of relaism, but the MM involved woul be horrible! it's a good theory, but it would negativly effect gameplay

 

[Mallipeep]

Good ideas:
Map trade-> whether to include resources or not
Need to make some effort to unveil more resources:
- more classical way: if you discover iron working, then later mining and advanced mining unveil new areas (maybe only on your or neutral territory, if neighbour also gets the tech, then it takes time ( modified by relations, espionage, culture etc.) before rumours of their mining sites arrive to your civ.
- more advanced way (i would prefer that): you spend gold (via some slider) to resource detection, the more you spend the more you may find, the finding precentage is also effected by certain tech (somekind of basic geology or something would be first, and that one would unlock the slider in the first place). Some first resources dont need any detection, are avaible on with their tech.
This of course needs completely new resource system, resources will have to be of limited amount if you spend them, you need to search for more. From gameplay over realism aspect, you still should be able to find them forever.
but oh well, i dont see that ever happening in next few civ ceries if they continue the 33% old, 33% modified politics...

Bad Ideas:
The geologist unit... well maybe only then if only thing you have to do with them, is to build one.

 

[searcheagle]

I see resource discovery being done by citizens that belong to the city. I would like to see no additional micromanagement. Although, there might be some sort of option to accelerate the finding of resouces. It would have an additional cost of some sort either monetary, cutting sciences (because the geologists would be scientists) or production (because resources would be taken away from production to find resources.)

The geologist is as a unit or specialist is a bad idea because it would add to much MM. My idea would have this ability found in the domestic advisor panel where this setting would be set for the whole civ.

 

[Sar]

I suggest not to create a special geologist unit but some kind of companies that would observe some territory that we gona point them. If that territory belonges to our enemies or just not us we would have to make an agreement with that country's goverment. But if we want to own all the resources of that territory we would have to get it by strenght. If you insist on creating of a special unit then units of that geological company could be moved by AI that would choose the most optimal way(the shortest). And we should put off that thing that makes all the resources on maps at sight. Only observation and exploration. Of course I mean only strategic recsurces

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I am actually somewhere in-between these two extremes. On the one hand, I don't feel that resources (be they strategic, bonus or luxury) should appear automatically yet, at the same time, I don't want the headache of moving around yet MORE units (heck, I even want to get rid of unit-based workers, so I DEFINITELY don't want to take a backward step).
Instead, I would rather have a system whereby resources can appear-at ANY time through the game (theoretically, at least).
The way it might work is that, at the start of certain turns (maybe every turn?) the computer checks to see if you have 'discovered' a new resource deposit. The base chance of this occuring would depend on the 'scarcity' of the resource, and the 'size' of the specific deposit. This base chance is then modified by:

1) The amount of your PW budget assigned to 'Exploration'.
2) Whether the resource deposit lies within your-or an allies-cultural borders, outside them, or inside the border of a non-allied nation.
3) Whether the resource deposit lies within a your-or an allies-city radius, outside of any city radii, or inside the city radius of non-allied nation.
4) Whether or not you are working the tile in question, and/or building a terrain improvement on it.
5) Having a terrain improvement on the tile (the longer its there, the more chance it has of revealing the deposit). Certain terrain improvements give a better chance of discovery than others.
6) Whether or not you have any techs which rely on that resource.
7) How far away you are from discovering the first tech which makes use of the resource (if applicable).
8) Optional: Increased chance for the % of scientific specialists you have in your nation.

The good thing about this system is that you cannot easily 'scope' enemy nations to determine whether they have any deposits of a resource you want (forcing you to rely more on either diplomacy and/or espionage). It also gives a chance for you to discover a resource BEFORE you have the nous to use it. Such a resource deposit may, in fact, give a boost to your chance of discovering those techs which rely upon it.

So, any thoughts?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Bluetooth]

I voted no because I don’t think that an automated geologist would add anything to game play. I like it as it is today when new discoveries lead to new resources.

 

[sengfossil]

You may play "settler" instead. They have those units. I thinks in Civ we must not have plain realism. It is part of strategy that we discover land and discover ressources too. The ancient "discoverers had often a sientist as part of their group. And a single unit in Civ stands not for a single unit in real!
There are still those events the an source has been exhausted or a new source has been discovered. That works fine IMHO.

 

[dojoboy]

The good thing about this system is that you cannot easily 'scope' enemy nations to determine whether they have any deposits of a resource you want (forcing you to rely more on either diplomacy and/or espionage). It also gives a chance for you to discover a resource BEFORE you have the nous to use it. Such a resource deposit may, in fact, give a boost to your chance of discovering those techs which rely upon it.

Now, that would be perfect as long as cIV's AI is programmed "not" to see your resources. As in how they now where a oil deposit "will be" in a certain location when the tech is reached.

 

[brinko]

i like the idea about trading resource maps.
i dont see how much mm there would be for a geologist unit, expecially when resources are key to any civilizations success. it would be a simple click and watch, as the geologist tests squares during a turn. if one was looking for another specific resource, he might wanto build another geo to speedy up the proccess. something should be done for the oil age. a slider or research just wouldnt cut it, here it should be a unit .....people dont realize how much money gets dumped into oil technology and exploration that it should be implemented in civ4. there should be an oil exploration race, if u want oil, u should literally have to dig for it.

 

[dojoboy]

Just think about it for a minute,...a "geologist" unit in Civ. Consider this: moving a geologist unit each turn to each tile within, or without, your cultural borders.

It wouldn't be just one click and watch, the exponential growth factor is where the MM would come in. Soren mentioned removing unfun features from Civ3. IMHO, this would be adding an unfun feature. There are abstract applications that are far more effective and interesting than a unit.

 

[brinko]

okay i understand that moving them all the time looking for resouces can be unfun for some...but i think this unfun aspect should be implied for discovering oil. Running a country isnt all parades and fireworks you know, sometimes there has to be unfun serious aspects that emphasis realism involved.

pollution for example, i am disapointed that they want to remove the micromanagement from it. i feel as if for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction, pollution cleanup being one of them.

when a game a great sophistication gets chopped down to a simple fun game, people who enjoy the complexity of the game, will be detered from it. I dont think that chopping the nessesary "un fun aspects" of this game is the best way to do it. because when u do that, the skill level depreciates, and now a game that require a degree of skill, becomes skilless. skill itself IMHO, is based on all the micromanagement factors involved...as is the skill that is required for a sniper to make a great shot, the wind, the distance, the humidity, the bullet, the gun, the mind, and the target itself all define the shot itself and suggest if it were great or not. removing unfun aspects like the wind or the mind, may in short make for a quick fun game for the skilless, but those who appreciate all the defining factors of making a great shot or great country will surely be betrayed because it will lack the time and detail that they are willing to invest.