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Getting Started

As SlightlyMad and Txurce mentioned, Iron is not vital for success. Horses are equally valuable in this mod, and Catapults require no resources.

Speaking of which, with the buffed Germans I am pursuing a "kill barbs with warrior and archer while researching math" strategy. This gives me a barbarian army sometimes without horses or swords at all, plus the two catapults I build for myself. In two games, it had resulted in the destruction of a neighbor well before 500 BC.
 
I also pursued a warrior/archer mass strategy with Bismark. Even if none of them have experience, when you've got a dozen of them they can still take down cities. It does lose steam after the classical period when everyone else has big armies and barbarians are mostly gone.

After the initial rush wears out it's fun to use the trait for exploration. Send out a trireme or two! When you spot a barb camp, kill the unit defending it and POOF you take the camp and have a new unit to go exploring with. There's usually barbarians on those tiny islands with Ancient Ruins leftovers, so it's a great way to get those ruins too.

When my first caravel goes to another big continent, I kill every barbarian I see. That one caravel quickly leads to a decent armada of land and sea barbarians to greatly speed up exploration of the new continent. It's much faster than sending over slow, defenseless embarked explorers.
 
I also pursued a warrior/archer mass strategy with Bismark. Even if none of them have experience, when you've got a dozen of them they can still take down cities. It does lose steam after the classical period when everyone else has big armies and barbarians are mostly gone.

After the initial rush wears out it's fun to use the trait for exploration. Send out a trireme or two! When you spot a barb camp, kill the unit defending it and POOF you take the camp and have a new unit to go exploring with. There's usually barbarians on those tiny islands with Ancient Ruins leftovers, so it's a great way to get those ruins too.

When my first caravel goes to another big continent, I kill every barbarian I see. That one caravel quickly leads to a decent armada of land and sea barbarians to greatly speed up exploration of the new continent. It's much faster than sending over slow, defenseless embarked explorers.

This is a good strategy - I just used it to take out Hiawatha before he got on a roll. But in my last three games I quit being able to capture barbs after a certain point. It must be number of kills, but I'm not sure. Do you know if this is a bug?
 
Hey guys, love this mod with all the changes. But I just ran into a game stopper. I just got the meritocracy policy where it allows you to pick one free specialist. Well the free specialist button appears asking me to choose one. However nothing happens when I click the button and since there is an option open I can't click next turn either. Can any one point me to where this can be fixed?

And sorry if this has been mentioned I really did search the forums for an answer first.
 
Hey guys, love this mod with all the changes. But I just ran into a game stopper. I just got the meritocracy policy where it allows you to pick one free specialist. Well the free specialist button appears asking me to choose one. However nothing happens when I click the button and since there is an option open I can't click next turn either. Can any one point me to where this can be fixed?

And sorry if this has been mentioned I really did search the forums for an answer first.

When this happens all I do is click on the notification icon instead of the next turn bar and it works.
 
Thanks I do believe I have tech diffusion activated, so I'll double check that when I get home. One thing I'm baffled on from a codeing standpoint. I actually went into thal's mad to see if I couldn't force it to just give me an engineer rather than having me pick. And all of the text I could find stated that I should have just received an engineer rather than picking... not major but could someone give me a hint as to where to go looking?
 
Tech diffusion is out of date and doesn't work. I added its purpose to TBC anyway (research agreements help out less-advanced civs more now). In general, if part of the user interface doesn't act as it should it's due to one of two problems:

  • Cache not clear.
  • Incompatibility with another mod.

To give an engineer just enable this part of "BP - General.xml":

Code:
-->
<Row>
    <PolicyType>POLICY_MERITOCRACY</PolicyType>
    <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_ENGINEER</UnitClassType>
    <Count>1</Count>
</Row>
This is old code that's normally commented out. Comments in XML are framed by:

<!-- comment -->

By moving the --> above the <Row> section, it enables that block of data.

Under this part add NumFreeGreatPeople="0":

Code:
<Update>
    <Where Type="POLICY_MERITOCRACY" />
    <Set GridX="3" NumFreeGreatPeople="0" />
</Update>
 
Hi

Just a quick question.

I'd like to edit some of the "parameters" from e.g. Thals mod but I'm hesitant to mod the files in the mod themselves (as new updates will come from time to time).

I tried making a little mod with some of the same parameters, e.g. MIN_CITY_RANGE (see below) and enabling that mod AFTER thals in the bod browser, but it doesn't seem to work.

Isn't this a correct way of doing it or am I missing something?

Spoiler :
<Update>
<Where Name="MIN_CITY_RANGE"/>
<Set Value="3"/>
</Update>

\Skodkim
 
Mods load in the order they're installed (oldest goes first) not the order they're enabled. They did this because of the Associations tab in ModBuddy, which would make it very easy for modders to control load order. Unfortunately they never finished this basic necessity, so we're left with both a hardcoded load order and unfinished tool to control it. :crazyeye:

This is why I have to put CiVUP and TBC in the same "mod." The only way to ensure the unofficial patch is loaded first (which is important) is when they're part of the same project.

What you could do is update TBC first, then re-install your own modmod.
 
First I'd like to say I love this mod and thanks to the people involved. I'm having just one small problem.

Way back I tried to use mod buddy to change the resource requirements for a bunch of different units. It gave me a headache so I just went into the XML and did it there. However, the balance mod seems to overwrite some of these and I can't figure out what I need to change in the mod. I checked the units and tech XML file but didn't see what I was looking for... only the Gunship and Ironclad I think.

Most units are still fine. I'm trying to change the Rocket Art, Modern Armor, Missile Cruiser, Nuke Sub and I think one or two more that I forgot. Sorry if this has been covered already. Thanks.


edit: oops maybe I should have put this in the combat section sorry. don't see a delete button or I'd repost it.

edit edit: nevermind I found what I was looking for in the sql file. had to open mod buddy *shudder*
 
Thal, I first wanted to say that the mod continues to get better and better! Thank you very much for all of your hard work, this mod is one of the main reasons I still play Civ 5.

I'll continue to comment in the individual threads, but I just wanted to summarize my feelings on the current issues still present in Civ 5. You are likely to agree with me on some, and disagree on others, but I felt it was worth the time to lay down some ideas.

1) Villages are not attractive. In my experience, food and hammers are worth more than gold, and that's especially true when civil service can bag me 2 food. There just doesn't seem to be enough incentive to build villages, especially in the early game.

2) Puppet states are a crunch in the game. For all of Civ V's flaws, I really like most of the new concepts it introduced. 1 UPT/policies/embarkation...I think they all bring a lot of new flavor and strategy to the game. The exception is the puppet system. The puppet system takes control away from the player...and penalizes him if he wants it back. Which in a game like civ where its all about control, its just a bad idea.

I wrote an article a while back detailing my thoughts and fixes on this, feel free to have a read if you are interested....http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=415531.

3) I shouldn't be able to get military units when certain other baseline tech isn't researched. Such as chariot archers without archery, infantry without rifling, etc. This is much more a flavor issue than a balance one, but I put it here none the less.

4) I can never get the computer to deal with me on my terms. I can't count the number of times I have asked the computer to be my friend and they refuse...and then the next turn they ask me to be their friend.

The computer will ask me to go to war for them all the time...but will never go to war for me.

Basically, the computer should show a little more give and take...right now I have literally given up on many aspects of diplomacy...and I simply wait for the computer to grace me with their presence and give me an offer.

5) Policies that simply exist for the cultural victory. The piety tree is a big example of this. Mandate of Heaven is much more useful with your changes...but I'm still spending culture simply to gain culture faster later. At least with the freedom tree I am generating culture in my cities so they can expand borders faster, but for the most part those policies are pretty boring ones.

6) Policy Imbalances: I know you are working to address these now. In my opinion, the weakest tree is Autocracy, mainly becomes freedom is so good (in fact I think freedom might be a bit OP, mainly because you have added so many specialist slots that late game freedom gives me a huge power). Second weakest is Commerce, order is probably third.

7) Strategic Resources are too plentiful on small maps, too sparse on large maps. This is just a general theme I'm hearing on the boards, but I don't have any formulas to back it up. I can say from my experience on small maps (my default), I generally have more horses than I know what to do with, and generally enough iron to handle what I need.

8) The very beginning of the game is a bit slow. I was wondering if it was possible to give a chunk of hammers to the first unit built in the game. Mainly just to get that first worker or building out a bit faster, instead of have to click end turn for 10 turns before anything actually happens. I can say the rest of the early game picks up much quicker due to some of your other changes.


That's all I have right now, hope it helps.
 
I really like all the changes you have done in your mod. I am usually a multiplayer but since my day routines wont let me play 6-7 hours long games i have to play singleplayer. So ive decided to play as much as possible with your mod and hopefully i can come with some ideas.

I got a week vacation right now so i wanted to see if its possible to get the current v7.0? Otherwise ill just continue with the 6.9, it will however be tough since ive seen v7.0 :D

Sry for offtopic. I coulda sent you a private message but this could maybe motivate others.
 
@Stalker0
When the game was released, TP spam everywhere was the norm, which was boring. I agree it's probably farm/mine spam everywhere now, so the pendulum's swung too far the other way. My goal is to get a middle ground where both are valuable, and city specialization is rewarded.

I'll finish this post later, gotta go ~
 
@Stalker0
When the game was released, TP spam everywhere was the norm, which was boring. I agree it's probably farm/mine spam everywhere now, so the pendulum's swung too far the other way. My goal is to get a middle ground where both are valuable, and city specialization is rewarded.

1. National Wonders
There's very little NW downside to annexing puppets. The cost-per-city is already factored in whether it's a puppet or normal city. If you're already building the NW there's no downside at all, nothing happens. If you haven't built the NW yet, you do need one additional prereq structure, but that structure is itself valuable and in most cases I'd build it anyway.

The problems with a flat city requirement for national wonders are:

  • Reduces choices by blocking NW rushing strategies.
  • Prevents OCC games. (It's not possible with our tools to change NW requirements to just 1 city for OCC games like in Civ IV.)

2. Conquered City Unhappiness
I did solution #1 in December (Courthouses cost more up-front with no maintenance).

3. Changing Culture and Cultural Victories
Solution #1 was done in the March patch by Firaxis. I also added a -50% culture reduction to puppets in December, and did solution #2 in January.

------------
Overall the balance is like this...

Cities

  • Puppet: Half :c5culture: and no :c5science:.
  • Annexed: Higher
    culture.png
    :c5greatperson: and :c5goldenage: costs.
Empires

  • Small peaceful: more
    science.png
    greatperson.png
    goldenage.png
    (also consider DoF research)
  • Large conquest: more :c5citizen: :c5production: :c5gold:
The culture effects between puppets and normal cities roughly cancel out, so basically the only long-term downside to annexing a puppet is slower great person and golden age generation.


@iWant921nooow
Check out the website at civmodding.wordpress.com for the beta download and patch notes. :)
 
The cost-per-city is already factored in whether it's a puppet or normal city. If you're already building the NW there's no downside at all, nothing happens.

Is this because of your mod? I can say that in the core game I have had a National Wonder cancel midway on me because I built a new city and no longer met the prereqs.
 
The culture effects between puppets and normal cities roughly cancel out, so basically the only long-term downside to annexing a puppet is slower great person and golden age generation.

I'll disagree here.

Generally its my older cities that are generating the massive culture. Each new city adds 30% more required cultured, and generates a very small fraction compared to my "culture cities".

A big factor in this are artist landmarks, which I find a critical piece of the culture pie. Even if I can build all the culture buildings in newer cities, I don't get the landmark culture benefits.

Another factor are cultural CSes. Early on, I find that a few cses can generate as much or more culture than my civ. This bonus isn't applied with every new city I build, so again every new city can't generate as much culture as the old ones.

Without puppets, I don't think its really viable to have a large civ that can go culture.
 
With CiVUP national wonders don't halt construction when a city is added. :)

The game's information about policies is misleading. The cost increase is 30% only if you have 1 city. :crazyeye:

Cost is also different from rate. Annexation slows policy rate by 2-10% in average circumstances, and since it enables research for the city, it's much better to annex in the long run (get new cultural buildings and other stuff sooner). I've posted more info about policy costs and cities here:

Policy cost increases per city
 
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