Getting Started

[Amble]

Couldn't find the thread for the Balance - Social Policies component so posting here.

Is it possible to change the rate that policies reward you based on game speed? Such as Liberty's +1 hammer in each city. It is a much more efficient policy on quick than marathon.

 

[Thalassicus]

I've started focusing on bug squashing to get the beta build into release-version form. In particular I fixed a lot of bugs with normal/Unique building differences, culture buildings, and the Watermill delusionally thinking it was a Floating Garden.

Please check unique units and buildings "make sense" with recent changes compared to their normal counterparts. There's a lot of them to skim over and it's easy for me to miss a few errors here and there.


@Polycrates
The reason workers are cheaper to buy on Epic gamespeed is the slight cost reduction for units on Epic and Marathon speeds. I liked this from Civ IV's game speeds, since the point I saw of Epic/Marathon was to get more time to use units - all production, research, etc scales but unit movement does not. It primarily helps defending civs rebuild from attrition losses, since the battlefield's closer to where units pop out.

I moved Siege back to tier 2 status. It actually also has a nerf from 40%->30% in the beta versions I'd mistakenly left off the tooltip.

I redesigned the resource bonuses on the Watermill:

• Spices, Sugar
  +1 from Watermill
  +1 from Windmill
• 01 from Plantation on Sugar (was 1, 1). Most other plantation resources follow this improvement-bonus pattern.

I removed Wheat since it already gets a food boost through techs (Civil Service / Fertilizer). Even when I added the boost to Wheat I suspected I wouldn't keep it, but wanted to at least try it out to see how it felt. It feels good enough as-is.

@Amble
That's a very true point, though most other fixed bonuses don't scale with game speed either. I don't think we have the capability to do something like that.

 

[Txurce]

Playing v23, I just entered the Classical era, but did not receive a free SP the turn after.

EDIT: I didn't receive a free SP after entering the Medieval era, either.

EDIT #2: The Germans have a Naresuan's Elephant in an isolated city next to a military CS that is not allied with them.

 

[alpaca]

As I recall, there was a really complex ICSing AI mod someone came out with that rebuilt settler AI based on location. Perhaps some clever reverse engineering with plot valuation might be the right solution, albeit a much more difficult one.

I'm suffering from ICSing AI, too, and I also increased the minimum city distance to 3 for testing. It's not so great tbh, it really disables more legitimate city positions than I would like it to. Unfortunately, I haven't found out how to tell the AI to settle cities further apart yet, it seems intent to just settle a city as close as it can.

 

[DarthCycle]

Playing version 1.08

I'm getting a regular crash at the end of my turn. I've attached my save file so that you may look into it. I have a feeling it might be related to the UN World wonder; I built it a few turns ago and I've been waiting for the screen for the vote.

View attachment Montezuma.Civ5Save

By the way: excellent mod, love it. Especially the research getting more expensive at the end and the improved combat system. I'm now losing units

 

[Kirschi]

• Spices, Sugar
  +1 from Watermill
  +1 from Windmill
• 01 from Plantation on Sugar (was 1, 1). Most other luxury resources follow this pattern.

I removed Wheat since it already gets a food boost through techs (Civil Service / Fertilizer). Even when I added the boost to Wheat I suspected I wouldn't keep it, but wanted to at least try it out to see how it felt. It feels good enough as-is.

I liked the previous version more, but nevertheless, there is a little display error in the Windmill tech info. It shows "+1 gold on [...]". (Testing v23beta).

 

[Thalassicus]

@Txurce
Thank you, found and fixed the SP problem.
The partisans thing is the result of new alerts I'm experimenting with. Problem is... I don't know how to selectively display them to particular people (like ancient ruins do). I'm thinking it's probably best to just slog through fixing the game's cumbersome notification system.
As for the elephant, don't have a clue.

@alpaca
I agree, I feel the constraint on the player reduces fun more than the AI spreading out enhances it. I've gone back to normal 2-tile city spacing.

@DarthCycle
Could you also zip your "Mods" folder and attach it?

@Kirschi
Thank you for pointing out that error, I hadn't noticed it. I've corrected it now.

 

[Txurce]

@Txurce
Thank you, found and fixed the SP problem.
The partisans thing is the result of new alerts I'm experimenting with. Problem is... I don't know how to selectively display them to particular people (like ancient ruins do). I'm thinking it's probably best to just slog through fixing the game's cumbersome notification system.

@alpaca
I agree, I feel the constraint on the player reduces fun more than the AI spreading out enhances it. I've gone back to normal 2-tile city spacing.

1. The partisan notifications aren't bothersome. It took me a long time to find the city from which they came. I wouldn't worry about it.

2. I agree that the 2-tile spacing is more fun for the player - especially when wanting to build optimally near a CS.

 

[DarthCycle]

As requested, my MODS folder

View attachment MODS.7z

I downloaded the 1.09.23 beta, the mods you are using are nothing like the old one, and your first post don't reference them. Mods like Attila v13, CivWillard v1 Tectonics v6, what are all those? And where are the new versions of the older mods from v1.08?

 

[Txurce]

As requested, my MODS folder

View attachment 279198

I downloaded the 1.09.23 beta, the mods you are using are nothing like the old one, and your first post don't reference them. Mods like Attila v13, CivWillard v1 Tectonics v6, what are all those? And where are the new versions of the older mods from v1.08?

Version 23 incorporates the changes from older Combined mods like v8.

All of the changes to the Balance mods are documented either in the spoilers of the OP, or else in the threads of the individual mods that comprise the Balance Combined mods. As far as I can tell, this reference system is the one that has always been in place, and there is nothing in

Attila, CivWillard and Tectonics are recommended mods. You can read about them in their own threads.

 

[Thalassicus]

I noticed a small, but important error preventing puppet states from getting their nerf, which should be working properly in v24 now. Should in theory be able to update from v23->v24 with existing saves, but I'd backup the mods folder just in case, to revert back if the save breaks.

@DarthCycle
Thanks, I'll try and figure out what the problem is. It might take me a while though, these sort of things that rarely occur can be very hard to track down.

In the beta download I just dump all the mods I'm using together and drop it here, that's why there's some other stuff in the download. I do this so people can test things with the exact same game as everyone else (if desired). I don't document beta versions as thoroughly because it saves time. It'll have clear explanations in the public release version, like in past releases.

On the topic of the download...

Beta Release Notes:
Highlights:

• Combined everything into one download, with individual mods as sub-folders of the package. This is to make it easier for people downloading more than one of these mods in the mod browser. Individual mod sub-folders can still be deleted to go without them, if desired.

Basically the whole mod is now contained in the "Thals Balance Mods - Combined (v 1)" folder, and in CiV it's listed as a single mod now. This is to make it easier to download, and easier to develop in ModBuddy. Other folders in the 7z file are various additional mods I'm using.

 

[Tomice]

Glad you returned to 2-tile city spacing. It really blocks too many good positions, e.g. when you can't build a city on a river if 2 cities are 6 tiles apart.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

I must ask since i'm about ready to fill up the "Balance Mods" listing of allowed versions for LeoPaRd.

I've always been cautious with compatibility issues when modders start integrating other's work.
For example, yours has Attila's & Copasetic's along with the usual excellent bunch of pure balancing assets.
In a strict sense, upgrading & follow throughs are made hugely more complex and indirectly add the risk of common flaws to a certain point.

Knowing how Alpaca was able to solve the DiploCorner collision of multiple accessing by the many, i'm also wishing for a similar process for stuff like TopPanel & InfoCorner. Since we'll eventually (probably!) create yet another virtual clug along these two, it would be great if someone were to try a final fix.

If i have to provide for runtime verification of installed MODs when tracking valid LPR calls, i'd still need a reliable coordination of necessary assets when booting a Record attempt by users. Please refer to post #6 in this thread should you need further details.

Thus, why *pure* Mods might be a better design decision to work with, IMHO.

Now, i'm not asking to alter your stuff in any ways but rather some help into determining *IF* some of the essential mods i've listed in the above thread would simply interfere with the "ONE BALANCING" rule i'm setting for it.

 

[alpaca]

I must ask since i'm about ready to fill up the "Balance Mods" listing of allowed versions for LeoPaRd.

I've always been cautious with compatibility issues when modders start integrating other's work.
For example, yours has Attila's & Copasetic's along with the usual excellent bunch of pure balancing assets.
In a strict sense, upgrading & follow throughs are made hugely more complex and indirectly add the risk of common flaws to a certain point.

Knowing how Alpaca was able to solve the DiploCorner collision of multiple accessing by the many, i'm also wishing for a similar process for stuff like TopPanel & InfoCorner. Since we'll eventually (probably!) create yet another virtual clug along these two, it would be great if someone were to try a final fix.

If i have to provide for runtime verification of installed MODs when tracking valid LPR calls, i'd still need a reliable coordination of necessary assets when booting a Record attempt by users. Please refer to post #6 in this thread should you need further details.

Thus, why *pure* Mods might be a better design decision to work with, IMHO.

Now, i'm not asking to alter your stuff in any ways but rather some help into determining *IF* some of the essential mods i've listed in the above thread would simply interfere with the "ONE BALANCING" rule i'm setting for it.

The thing is that in the end, we will modify the DLL which will make any mods that change it incompatible in one fell swoop. So while modularity makes sense for some UI mods (like the diplo corner buttons), it doesn't make much sense to try to jump through hoops for it in my opinion.

 

[Madfox]

Hello,

Download latest version, got a problem I never had before with this mod (which I love very much). I can't promote units. I don't have the unit interface anymore. Why has it disapered? Some help would be welcom.

Greetings Madfox.

Half hour later: started a normal game. Got the information about the active unit left in the screen. Started a new mod game, no information about the unit? Strange thing. It's something within the mod.

 

[Cire]

Hey Thal, I played through a game w/ the bata (Jan.15 version). No major bugs that I could see. I did notice that the Hydro Plant does't use up an aluminum when it is built. I played through w/ Washington, price, epic, large tectonic map. I seemed to be a little overpowered through out the entire game, but, i'm pretty sure that was do to my starting location and the the placement of resources around me. Luck of the roll, I guess. Also, the Railyard seems a bit OP to me. I was able to build it in 1 turn and the 50% increase was way to much. Consider that most the other production buildings only give you a bonus of 25% (factory is 50%). And they take a good amount of time to build. I also think that it should include a commerce bonus. So, maybe, 20% production and 10% commerce boost or something of the sorts. Just throwing some numbers out there. I think it definitely needs a longer build time though. Well, I'm about to start a new game w/ the new version, throw you some more input when i'm done. Thanks again for the mods.

 

[Txurce]

Also, the Railyard seems a bit OP to me. I was able to build it in 1 turn and the 50% increase was way to much.

With the RR tech the capital should automatically get a 50% RR boost, and so does any city to which it is connected by RR or harbor. This is a mod that balances a vanilla bug, where all the connected cities except for the capital received the boost.

 

[Thalassicus]

@Zyxpsilon
The reason I included those this is the individual components don't make sense in isolation... for example, using only one of Balance - Research or Free-Research Balance Mod would result in strange gameplay. The first component relies on the great scientist / research agreement changes of the second one to keep tech pace consistent. The second one relies on the greater tech costs of the first, or research agreements would be useless.

This is why they're included together. I consider Balance - Research and Free-Research Balance Mod part of a single mod with three co-authors (Alpaca, Seek, and myself) dealing with tech tree issues. They're in separate folders to make it clear who created what, and so it's easier to update. Similarly, I consider the Unofficial Patch, Attila's mod, and Copasetic UI Tweaks part of one unified mod with another three co-authors primarily focused on fixing UI bugs/issues.


@Madfox

1. Are you using any other mods?
2. Have you cleared your cache?

These are the only two sources of an issue like that I've seen (so far). There's some other mods that hide the unit interface... but the balance mods don't. If you've cleared your cache and tested it with only these mods enabled, could you attach your /mods folder and a savegame? I'll try and figure out what the problem might be.


@Cire
There was a bug for a while where I'd accidentally deleted the resource requirement from the hydro plant and spaceship factory. I double-checked the hydro plant to make sure nothing's affecting it anymore, and I think it's fixed now in the latest version.

The Railyard is a workaround to a bug: the trade network is connected to the capital, yet the capital is not connected to the trade network, a paradox preventing it from receiving the +50% Railroad bonus. This is why the Railyard can only be built in the capital. Trade routes are explained a bit in the Harbor's civilopedia entry, and I'll add the same info to the Railyard's pedia entry.

An unbroken [ICON_CONNECTED] route of roads, railroads, or water tiles to the [ICON_CAPITAL] Capital provides [ICON_GOLD].

An unbroken [ICON_CONNECTED] route of railroads or water tiles to the [ICON_CAPITAL] Capital provides +50% [ICON_PRODUCTION] (requires Railroads technology).

A [ICON_CONNECTED] trade route can only cross between water and land tiles at a Harbor.

 

[VimesUK]

Thal - quick and simple question.

In your latest dev build 25 I see that the unofficial patch is now at Unofficial Patch III (v 31) but on your previous dev builds it was Unofficial Patch III (v 32). I can't imagine that it has regressed but has the numbering changed for a reason..?

 

[Thalassicus]

Where does it say v31? It's a typo wherever it is...