Getting Started

[Tomice]

Btw, check the new patch info for 12/3 in general, (the @2k thread). All of us modders are going to need to change a whole lot, but at least the game will rock.

No kidding! It's quite a compliment to the work all of you have done.

WOW!!! This is a serious compliment to all modders, since they really took a lot of inspiration from your work. Still many new ideas, I especially like rebels for unhappiness But you'll have to start almost from scratch, Thal!

I don't think anyone has said that MI should be slower but more powerful than tanks. Some, including me, originally proposed slowing down MI, as the "simple" fix. Upon reflection, a better solution seems to be keeping speeds the same, and making MI significantly weaker than tanks, but giving them an edge (MI bonus/tank nerf) vs cities.

No, you're right, but since they get a bonus in rough terrain, they are very often in vanilla. It was still a inappropriate criticism, and I want to take it back. Sorry!

 

[Slowpoke]

Yeah, the rebels was actually an idea from the ideas and suggestions forum. It's a pretty cool idea. Probably going to ditch very unhappy and happy altogether, if I can alter the rebels in the xmls.

 

[Lazy Knight]

Hi Thalassicus,

I read your entry on the Mods Website, and I agree you have done all there is to do now, yet you also introduce the coal-bug. If you want to leave this mod for a while, I would suggest going for the easy fix, at least untill the building check is built into the game, to not leave such a bug out in the field.

 

[Txurce]

Hi Thalassicus,

I read your entry on the Mods Website, and I agree you have done all there is to do now, yet you also introduce the coal-bug. If you want to leave this mod for a while, I would suggest going for the easy fix, at least untill the building check is built into the game, to not leave such a bug out in the field.

What's the coal bug?

 

[Tomice]

What's the coal bug?

AFAIK since Thal changed Ironclads to require iron instead of coal, coal is no longer displayed properly in the top bar, since no unit uses it anymore. If I remember right, Iron is also not shown when you research bronce working, since the first unit using it comes with iron working.

I had the impression Thal fixed it, though, as far as it possible ATM.

 

[Txurce]

AFAIK since Thal changed Ironclads to require iron instead of coal, coal is no longer displayed properly in the top bar, since no unit uses it anymore. If I remember right, Iron is also not shown when you research bronce working, since the first unit using it comes with iron working.

I had the impression Thal fixed it, though, as far as it possible ATM.

I think it's fixed, too. Coal shows on my top bar... probably because you still need it for factories and railroads.

 

[Thalassicus]

It shows but it's not tradable. The quick fix he mentions is just changing Ironclads back to Coal, and thank you for pointing that out Lazy Knight. I'll upload a version with that alteration.

It does look like they've incorporated a lot of ideas for balancing the game and included some of their own (I avoided touching the tech tree for example, preferring them to do that). I've always known with mods like this I'd be removing things over time as the game improves, so it's something I anticipated and looking forward to.

In particular, I hope this game's building aspects become just as thrilling as its combat mechanics.

@Maximus9102
I'm not familiar with the "nights" modpack, but if it includes the Celtic civ mod I know that's one that removes unit formations.

 

[Tomice]

Now it pays off that you kept them seperate I was just about to ask if you'd keep your mods close to what the dev's do or if you'd stick to your solutions that worked well.

 

[Varanid]

I figure I should post this here: I was playing with your balance mods ennabled, and there was one thing that kind of stuck out at me:

I got a city to 238 combat strength, which renders it basically unconqerable I think. It was the capitol city, had walls+castle+military base+agra fort, was on a hilll, had the Kremlin and the social policy that ups combat strength of cities. and it had a mech infantry fortified.

It worked out well for me because the American and Ottoman empires were pretty pushy, but it might be a bit OP.

oh: and the mounted unit nerf vs cities might be a bit much. maybe 25% or 30% instead of 40%?

 

[Txurce]

I figure I should post this here: I was playing with your balance mods ennabled, and there was one thing that kind of stuck out at me:

I got a city to 238 combat strength, which renders it basically unconqerable I think. It was the capitol city, had walls+castle+military base+agra fort, was on a hilll, had the Kremlin and the social policy that ups combat strength of cities. and it had a mech infantry fortified.

It worked out well for me because the American and Ottoman empires were pretty pushy, but it might be a bit OP.

oh: and the mounted unit nerf vs cities might be a bit much. maybe 25% or 30% instead of 40%?

That's pretty funny. Your capital ought to be all but unconquerable, given the huge effort you put to making it so. Of course it can still be worn down by someone making a determined and well-resourced effort. Whether that someone would be the present AI is different question.

 

[Txurce]

It shows but it's not tradable. The quick fix he mentions is just changing Ironclads back to Coal, and thank you for pointing that out Lazy Knight. I'll upload a version with that alteration.

It does look like they've incorporated a lot of ideas for balancing the game and included some of their own (I avoided touching the tech tree for example, preferring them to do that). I've always known with mods like this I'd be removing things over time as the game improves, so it's something I anticipated and looking forward to.

In particular, I hope this game's building aspects become just as thrilling as its combat mechanics.

That explains why no one ever has any coal to trade!

Enjoy your break, Thal, and thanks again for making the fall so enjoyable. I played some games with the mod on Immortal level, and will report on that soon in the Strat section.

 

[Varanid]

yeah...of course most of my core cities had combat strengths of around 150 or so by then too, so they were pretty hoss.
I'd been trying for a cultural victory but had aggressive neighbors so I'd buffed my cities and defenses pretty high. Eventually I got sick of it and conquered them though. They kept trying to send units in to fight me, but I think I could have probably held them off without an army after the industrial age.

 

[Txurce]

yeah...of course most of my core cities had combat strengths of around 150 or so by then too, so they were pretty hoss.
I'd been trying for a cultural victory but had aggressive neighbors so I'd buffed my cities and defenses pretty high. Eventually I got sick of it and conquered them though. They kept trying to send units in to fight me, but I think I could have probably held them off without an army after the industrial age.

I've never had defenses like that, but had similar experiences in deciding to win with a small civ, then becoming strong enough that my cities are never attacked.

 

[Finite]

Thanks Thal for making the game playable while waiting official fixes. If I could convince you to change one thing then it would be making cities easier to capture... Over 200 city strenght is silly, but worst is that it is just generally too difficult to take cities now. It makes the game too easy when computer can't do it, but also if you lack the top resource like iron it is nearly impossible to get it via conquest when you can't build a melee unit capable of damaging a city...

 

[Varanid]

There seem to be certain gaps in technology where cities are much tougher to conquer than others. Early modern seems to be one, I'd say pre riflemen Renn. is another (provided the AI's improved it's cities at all). Of course in future era, you can just build a GDR or three...

edit: I could swear I had another paragraph

Keep in mind the over 200 strength required a pretty specific set of events, including a wonder, and a policy, and placement (oh yeah, any attack would have had to have crossed a river too...).
I kind of like fighting an AI that's got the +combat strength in friendly territory policies and flanking bonuses, makes them tougher (although if they have *all* of them it can be a bit much).

 

[Txurce]

Thanks Thal for making the game playable while waiting official fixes. If I could convince you to change one thing then it would be making cities easier to capture... Over 200 city strenght is silly, but worst is that it is just generally too difficult to take cities now. It makes the game too easy when computer can't do it, but also if you lack the top resource like iron it is nearly impossible to get it via conquest when you can't build a melee unit capable of damaging a city...

Cities are probably a bit too hard to take for the AI, but they feel just right for this human player. Iron is necessary in the Renaissance, but it's pretty easy to acquire by trade, or conquest in the early stages. Chariots as siege units are surprisingly effective.

 

[Txurce]

I downloaded the last mod pack a few days ago. Since then my last two games have hung on turns 186 and 134. When I try to reload, I get a "runtime error" message within a few seconds saying that the game asked to be terminated in an unusual way. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?

 

[ezysquire]

In particular, I hope this game's building aspects become just as thrilling as its combat mechanics.

Well said.

 

[heinous_hat]

Hi Thal. Been playing with your entire pack and recommended accompaniments (along with CS Diplomacy) after using just select components with the Economy mod. I like the similar - yet distinct approach to food resources taken in Valk's mod (resource enabled buildings vs building enabled resources). You've got good early game tension going that makes one seriously consider risking a walkabout with the initial settler (quite often worth it).

Just a quick comment/question: v1.04.2 dev looks like it still has iron as the requirement for ironclads despite the note in the top post. BC - General.xml is identical in the two posted dev versions. Not sure if that's a mistake or if you haven't updated yet. It's just the one line (Set ResourceType="RESOURCE_COAL) to fix that yes?

Much thanks for all of this

 

[simonjphillips]

Version 11 of this crashes everytime I settle my first city. No other mods installed.