Giant Earth Map (Eurasia Upscaled), 24 civs

[coldvolkan]

nice map but after 1600's it gives too many errors and does not have capacity for more than 2 mb if you solve this i think it will be great

 

[Genghis_Kai]

nice map but after 1600's it gives too many errors and does not have capacity for more than 2 mb if you solve this i think it will be great

Can you please report the errors you have? And what do mean by "capacity for more than 2 mb"?

 

[coldvolkan]

it says bad allacatiom and memeriol fail but generally when the game is making auto save and more than 2 mb

 

[knigh+]

This a good effort, yet it has some great erros even as a realistic view of the world map.

1)Asia minor has way to many marble. Although asia minor never had a reputation of it and still doesnt. You should also mind that resources are there to resmble the existance and importance not to fill empty tiles.

Yes Asia Minor has way too many marble IN REAL LIFE. Please do a tiny bit of research before criticism. And as for the reputation, have you noticed the name of the inner sea between the straits given by your ancestors? (I am assuming you are Greek from the contents of your first two points and your last paragraph) As for filling up the tiles, it is not Genghis Kai's fault that Asia Minor happens to be one of the richest lands of the world, as far as natural resources are concerned; he is just representing the fact that in some parts of the world, there are less "empty tiles" then others.

2)Greece has no marble. Which is wierd if you consider than parthenon was built there and the coutry is a major exporter till nowadays.

Enter has a point Genghis Kai, your previous set of data lacked the marble in Turkey, it might have missing info for some other countries. Greece must have a lot of marble as well, since it belongs to the same geological formation as western Turkey (which is the most marble-ful area of the world). A quick search of the web did not give me any "marble reserve per country" kind of info, so I don't know how to help this issue.

3)Rice!! oh boy rice. Rice in asia is like plains in germany. I dunno what your references are but china can export rice to the whole world with all this rice plains...

The reason for this is the method Genghis Khan uses for distributing the resources to countries. He (she?) uses total production as the basis. In this way of calculating, a small country with very fertile rice (or other) fields would look less fertile than a large country with poorer fields. This error is part of the abundance of rice in China. However, correcting this would require him to access the agricultural data for every province of each country, and that, for a hobby, is not doable. Perhaps an easier way to do it, since a lot of things are already in excel, is to assume a certain tonnage of crop yield per one food icon of the game, calculate the food in each country with no crop resources, and add the crop resources to bring the total to the actual figures... which once again proves that I am a geek.

4)Lets go back to Europe. The number of hills in germany and britain are totally unrealistic. Stone as a resource in germany and france is almost a joke in a region full of plains.

If you have read Genghis Khan's earlier posts, you would know that he uses relative elevation rather than absolute when determining hills and mountains. And of course there is stone in France and Germany, do you think they built all those huge medieval castles and chateaus out of mud? Actually stone is such an abundant resource of the world that I think Uncle Sid shouldn't even have made it a strategic resource - what is the point of keeping track of it if everyone has it?

5)Oil rigs should be added in Algeria, Angola, Alaska, Mexico, Vietnam and Syberia, Liberia and South Africa and the oil next to mongols should be placed closer to pacific where the Manchurian oil was.

Siberia already has oil. As for the others, if it is not 50 bbl of oil, it is not on the map. By that account Canada should have a bunch of oil squares as well by the way. Canada has a significant portion of world oil. The reason it probably was not mentioned in Genghis Kai's background search is because it is difficult and expensive (although not impossible) to extract. Genghis Kai, search for something like "Canada oil shales" and decide whether you want to represent it in your world.

6)There is no Oil in Syria btw.

And there isn't in real life either.
Wait, is it on the map? Because there isn't oil in the excel sheet (which is correct). Ok, I confess, I never opened the map, but I have the perfect excuse: I don't have the game. Judging from the spirit I have for it (hanging in forums etc), I shouldn't get it if I want to graduate - which should be next month

7)UK should have more than 2 sources of coal as well as the area between today Germany and France.

If you can argue against the sheer magnitude of research Genghis Kai apparently has done in order to determine how many coals there should be...
And what happened to your "not filling every tile" thought in #1? I got curious and checked the excel file, 38% of Turkey's tiles has resources while Britain has 41%. And you want to add more to Britain? By the way, in my humble opinion, both of those percentages are huge and resources should be a little more precious - but that might be just the civ 1,2,3 talking - and if I am not putting my time and creating a magnificent map like this one, who am I to criticise.

8)Lamas are not like cows or sheep but more like horses, i dont think they re somehow edible. Concerning cows in S.America

What about camels
(ignore the smiley, that was a serious contemplation, I just find both camels and llamas funny)

9)The way sea is created you can get to several small islands in the pacific from Americas, why?(using galleys!!!)

I totally agree, as I too suggested painting all mid-oceanic ridges dark blue in my previous hyper-long message.

10)Celts should appear bettwen france and UK and not between Romans and Greeks.

Between France and Spain actually. But see, that screws up the growth of other European civs, so I think things would run much better with the Thai instead of Celts option.

11)Try to make the region of France as a Hexagon.

12)Dont place resources radomly however. I ve seen pigs and cows in Jungles???

Wild boar and hippopotami perhaps?

12)Move Washigton one tile up and right so that its gets a beter starting point.

13)Check whether there is uranium in france.

14)Reduce resources in Far East(meaning China and India).

for the sake of game balance yes, but I am afraid even that might not bring the balance to the game (that sounded Star Warsy)

15)Add Ivory close to Egypt and Carthage!!

Definitely not Egypt as it didn't have elephants.

All in all this map has definetely been a work of hundred of hours but still needs some work. Good job on Chile and the increased uranium around the world as it should be that way.

Last but not least: Considering the info about Turks. In Civ4 you are playing with the Ottomans. Ottomans were Mongols that had been in the Asia minor for only 2 centuries(before getting Instanbul) as their ancestors the Seljuk Turks have been wiped out by the very hordes of Genghis Khan so I think that their initial place should be in Asia Minor or somewhere near it.

Ok, that was wrong in so many levels...

1- If you read Genghis Kai's first few posts you'll see that he is including Turks instead of Ottomans, that's why they start in central Asia. This is actually how it is supposed to be; if we have China rather than Ming Dynasty and India rather than Mughals, we should have Turks rather than Ottomans.

2- Ottomans were - are not Mongols, they are Turks. They never spoke Mongolian, always Turkish language (with some Persian and Arabic sprinkled, and later some French). They were one of the original 24 Turkic clans from central Asia (Seljuks were another). The reason they came to asia minor was because they were fleeing the Mongols.

3- As you say, Ottomans came to Asia Minor in 13th century, led by Osman's father. But they came from central asia. Nevertheless, we are not talking about Ottomans, we are talking about Turks, so there is no correct starting place other than Central Asia. That is also why all the central asian republics, as well as the largest province of China are still called Turkic.

4- Seljuk Turks weren't wiped out they only lost their control over the other Turkish clans and principalities. Seljuk Sultanate of Rum (not to be confused with the Seljuk Empire, which was there in 11th century) consisted of a bunch of nomadic tribes, which became independent after the Mongols defeated the Seljuks. Then Asia Minor was divided among a dozen or so little principalities, one of which was the Ottomans, and the largest was the descendants of Seljuks. The most widely accepted year of 1299 as the start of Ottoman dynasty is nothing but Osman's declaration of independence from Seljuks (he was the leader of the tribe since 1280s). In the end Ottomans actually had to conquer Seljuks, and then Seljuks declared their independence after Timur's invasion of Ottoman Empire, and Ottomans had to fight them for the second time...Yes I am as much of a history geek as I am a geography geek.

5- You misspelled Istanbul

 

[knigh+]

I might have mistyped Genghis Kai as Genghis Khan a few times in the previous post, sorry.

 

[Grave]

sigh... it's things like these that show exactly how arrogant Americans are.

1. Do you think any other civ's (nation) flag matches their actual flag correctly? What's the point in replacing the flag for this one civ, IN A GAME!? It serves no purpose, it's just window dressing. If you don't like it, you simply don't have to stare at it and drool while singing the star spangled banner like you probably do everytime you see an American flag.

2. Hmmm... yes. let's compare the CONTINENT of Asia to the COUNTRY of the USA... No, that's not arrogant at all. Really. I'm serious, it's not.

Oh, and before you call me an "American Hater" or anything like that, you should probably know that I am an American, and it simply sickens me to see such arrogance in my fellow Americans.

BTW, great map... good work.

First off, you're an friggin' idiot.

Second off, I don't see where you come from bashing this guy. He wasn't cutting anything down about this map, just making an off comment. So what? There was no need to attack him.

Third, we "Americans" (I use that term loosely with you) have a very good reason to be arrogant... it's because we're the best. Since you don't feel the same way, you must be content with your mediocrity.

Fourth, go cry to to Hugo Chavez. I'm sure he'd appreciate having somebody with your viewpoints as a citizen of his country.






Genghis_Kai, this is a good map. Sorry to vent in your thread... it just "simply sickens me" to see a so called "American" bashing on another for no justifiable reason other than the fact that he seems to hate his own country.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

I might have mistyped Genghis Kai as Genghis Khan a few times in the previous post, sorry.

knigh+, thanks for replying that post. I did got a bit upset by that post. I really don't know what I could say when I read comments like "resources are there to resemble the existance and importance not to fill empty tiles" or "Dont place resources randomly". I have dedicated at least an hour every night over half a year to make this map realistic, and I've admitted that even that this map is far from perfect. Someone then come along, not even bother to spent a minute in google (I suspect he didn't even open up my excel file before commenting), and ask me not to place resource randomly??? I meant, if he really want to play on a map with his fantasy euro-centric world view, he has all his right to make one up for himself - I don't work for Faraxis.

Actually, knigh+, I still owe you a reply from your previous post. Thanks for that. I made some changes based on your comments. There are some that I didn't change because those were a bit more like personal choices. For example, using desert to represent salt lakes (I think it looks better the way it is, but i know you could be more correct), Coast in the middle of oceans (I delibrately made that at the beginning for more fun. But I ensured that there is no way to get to Americas or Oceania with galleys) or add one more island for Greek (I think the way you suggest would make mainland Greek doesn't look as nice).

For your latest comments:

Enter has a point Genghis Kai, your previous set of data lacked the marble in Turkey, it might have missing info for some other countries. Greece must have a lot of marble as well, since it belongs to the same geological formation as western Turkey (which is the most marble-ful area of the world). A quick search of the web did not give me any "marble reserve per country" kind of info, so I don't know how to help this issue.

I also reckon data for marble and stone are difficult to find. Firstly, it was hard for me to define what type of marble and stone stat should I use, second, there aren't as much stat for stone minerals available. So at last, I used the stat as I quoted in [15][16] for these purposes. The stat for marble was not very good, because it is the stat of the number of tons of Marble imported to US in 2005. That's nowhere near true production because, I suppose if Mr Bush happened to define that country as terrorist, I wouldn't think that country would still have that many stone being imported to US relatively. But still, I think the stat is better than my old stat (using Feldspur), so I am using it until I can find a better stat.
So from that stat, Greece had 9263 tons imported to US, which was far from 50000 tons, the number I chose for a marble to represent. In comparison, Turkey had 701412 tons, which should give 14 marbles, but I capped to 8.

The reason for this is the method Genghis Khan uses for distributing the resources to countries. He (she?) uses total production as the basis. In this way of calculating, a small country with very fertile rice (or other) fields would look less fertile than a large country with poorer fields. This error is part of the abundance of rice in China. However, correcting this would require him to access the agricultural data for every province of each country, and that, for a hobby, is not doable. Perhaps an easier way to do it, since a lot of things are already in excel, is to assume a certain tonnage of crop yield per one food icon of the game, calculate the food in each country with no crop resources, and add the crop resources to bring the total to the actual figures... which once again proves that I am a geek.

I actually had that as my original idea! If you look at my excel file, there were columns reserved for food, energy and GDP productions to calculate the right amount of Bread, Hammer and Coin! I even got some stat for those already. But I soon realise that was way too aggressive and so I gave up and only controlling natural resources. Even that, it took me so much time that I though of giving up many times. I was writting up my PhD thesis at the same time, can you belief I have already submitted my thesis? and who you calling a geek? (My PhD research was not on Civ4 btw )

Siberia already has oil. As for the others, if it is not 50 bbl of oil, it is not on the map. By that account Canada should have a bunch of oil squares as well by the way. Canada has a significant portion of world oil. The reason it probably was not mentioned in Genghis Kai's background search is because it is difficult and expensive (although not impossible) to extract. Genghis Kai, search for something like "Canada oil shales" and decide whether you want to represent it in your world.

For Oil, I used stat for proved reserve, instead of production within a year. The stat I've got is actually quite good (Oops, I forgot to include this stat from BP in my ref.) Thats because I think reserve is the best way of representing resources in this map. Some country could rush production within a year, but they couldn't change the reserve they have. And since it is reserve, it could be a bit different from our normal understanding of oil distribution. Until 2005, Canada only has 16.5 thousand million barrels, and I need 50 thousand million for one oil icon. (this number in my excel file is wrong I think, but it would not matter for our discussion here)

And there isn't in real life either.
Wait, is it on the map? Because there isn't oil in the excel sheet (which is correct). Ok, I confess, I never opened the map, but I have the perfect excuse: I don't have the game. Judging from the spirit I have for it (hanging in forums etc), I shouldn't get it if I want to graduate - which should be next month

I don't think I have placed oil in Syria too.

Hey, good luck for your study, but playing Civ4 a bit shouldn't hurt, I think

And what happened to your "not filling every tile" thought in #1? I got curious and checked the excel file, 38% of Turkey's tiles has resources while Britain has 41%. And you want to add more to Britain? By the way, in my humble opinion, both of those percentages are huge and resources should be a little more precious - but that might be just the civ 1,2,3 talking - and if I am not putting my time and creating a magnificent map like this one, who am I to criticise.

I also think it is too crowded in certain parts of the map. But if I raise the numbers each icon rep. i.e. less resources on the map, other parts of the world would get too few resources, in my opinion. Really, on average, there are only 44 (1406/32) per type of resource , consider that there are 24 civs, I think it is not too much.

What about camels
(ignore the smiley, that was a serious contemplation, I just find both camels and llamas funny)

Wiki told me that these animals were domesticated by the Ancient Americans and were used for different purposes, including eating its meat.

 

[alms66]

Second off, I don't see where you come from bashing this guy. He wasn't cutting anything down about this map, just making an off comment. So what? There was no need to attack him.

Third, we "Americans" (I use that term loosely with you) have a very good reason to be arrogant... it's because we're the best. Since you don't feel the same way, you must be content with your mediocrity.

I've ignored most of the comments made because I said what I had to say about it and I still stand by it, but I had to clear up a few things. I wasn't "bashing" the guy, just frustratingly making the point that it's a worthless waste of time to change the flag - regardless of whether you do it for your own personal mod or for one to release to the public. I did assume the reason he did it, but it's a safe assumption that the reason was correct because there's no other logical (though not good) reason behind it. I also pointed out the mistake in comparing a continent to a country... they are at two different scales but many Americans can't get there heads out of their arses long enough to realize that.

I don't hate my country, but it's not the best at anything. Sure we've got a slight technological edge and the economy is the largest in the world for the moment, but it hasn't always been that way and I'm intelligent enough to know that it's not always going to be that way. I'm also not blindly patriotic like most Americans either.

Anyhow, if you've got anything more to say about it, feel free to post in the off topic section and PM the link to me, so that we stop Hijacking this thread.

 

[knigh+]

knigh+, thanks for replying that post. I did got a bit upset by that post. I really don't know what I could say when I read comments like "resources are there to resemble the existance and importance not to fill empty tiles" or "Dont place resources randomly". I have dedicated at least an hour every night over half a year to make this map realistic, and I've admitted that even that this map is far from perfect. Someone then come along, not even bother to spent a minute in google (I suspect he didn't even open up my excel file before commenting), and ask me not to place resource randomly??? I meant, if he really want to play on a map with his fantasy euro-centric world view, he has all his right to make one up for himself - I don't work for Faraxis.

Don't bother yourself about his comments, just browse through the messages in this thread and you'll see how appreciative almost everybody are about your work.

Actually, knigh+, I still owe you a reply from your previous post. Thanks for that. I made some changes based on your comments.

And I still might owe you some kind of references for my comments. But I can't provide you any reference other than the mineral map in the original message. If you aren't interested in why you may skip the rest of this paragraph. A while ago I started preparing a detailed civmap of Turkey and surroundings (for possible later use in an independence war scenario, for when I get the game after finishing my PhD). I was doing the map in excel (putting map.jpg as the background of a worksheet of square cells and writing stuff in the cells). For that purpose I did resource research similar to yours, but at province level, for Turkey. That's how I was able to point locations for resources from the top of my head. The problem is, I gathered the agricultural resources from some papers and articles in Turkish, so citing them won't be very meaningful for you. Besides, I examined them and placed the resources onto my map on the fly, so I didn't even save copies of them. A few quick googlings didn't get me to the se particular papers now so, I can't give you reference (until I graduate).


I have a few questions about the agricultural resources by the way. Did you do anything with the food resources that are not in the game. I mean when I was adding up agricultural numbers for each resource, I did the following groupings (for produce in Turkey, but tropical stuff can be grouped similarly):

Wheat includes barley
Crab includes shrimp
Banana includes all fruits and non-wine grape
Dye includes cotton (I assumed dye represents a broader concept, like textiles)
Incense includes opium and tobacco
Spice includes tea, olive, pistachio, lemon, sugar
Corn includes sunflower
I was undecided about vegetables, beans (peas/lentils/chickpeas) and (hazel/chest/pea/wal)nuts (Turkey has more than half of world hazelnut production)

There are some that I didn't change because those were a bit more like personal choices. For example, using desert to represent salt lakes (I think it looks better the way it is, but i know you could be more correct), Coast in the middle of oceans (I delibrately made that at the beginning for more fun. But I ensured that there is no way to get to Americas or Oceania with galleys) or add one more island for Greek (I think the way you suggest would make mainland Greek doesn't look as nice).

Your map, your call

I also reckon data for marble and stone are difficult to find. Firstly, it was hard for me to define what type of marble and stone stat should I use, second, there aren't as much stat for stone minerals available. So at last, I used the stat as I quoted in [15][16] for these purposes. The stat for marble was not very good, because it is the stat of the number of tons of Marble imported to US in 2005. That's nowhere near true production because, I suppose if Mr Bush happened to define that country as terrorist, I wouldn't think that country would still have that many stone being imported to US relatively. But still, I think the stat is better than my old stat (using Feldspur), so I am using it until I can find a better stat.
So from that stat, Greece had 9263 tons imported to US, which was far from 50000 tons, the number I chose for a marble to represent. In comparison, Turkey had 701412 tons, which should give 14 marbles, but I capped to 8.

The problem with the stone and marble infos is most of the resources report the production amounts instead of the reserves (unlike the way they do for oil). Moreover, a lot of the resources contradict each other. So it is tough to decide. For example one of my first search results showed Greece to be #3 exporter to USA.

In my first message I didn't point individual marble sites. A googling of "Turkey marble production" gave the top result at http://turkishmarbles.tripod.com/id1.html
which had the following provincal data

Bursa : 1,850 Million m3 (35.8 %)
Denizli : 652 Million m3 (12.6 %)
Afyon : 629 Million m3 (12.2 %)
Tokat : 410 Million m3 (7.9 %)
Canakkale : 252 Million m3 (4.9 %)

I guess this plus the mineral map in my first post may be better help to distribute the marbles in Turkey.

I actually had that as my original idea! If you look at my excel file, there were columns reserved for food, energy and GDP productions to calculate the right amount of Bread, Hammer and Coin! I even got some stat for those already. But I soon realise that was way too aggressive and so I gave up and only controlling natural resources. Even that, it took me so much time that I though of giving up many times. I was writting up my PhD thesis at the same time, can you belief I have already submitted my thesis? and who you calling a geek? (My PhD research was not on Civ4 btw )

I know what you mean, in the middle of writing my thesis I wrote a collection of house rules for D&D, and this document was longer than any of my chapters. Sometimes I think I should just give up and go look for a job in game design industry.

For Oil, I used stat for proved reserve, instead of production within a year. The stat I've got is actually quite good (Oops, I forgot to include this stat from BP in my ref.) Thats because I think reserve is the best way of representing resources in this map. Some country could rush production within a year, but they couldn't change the reserve they have. And since it is reserve, it could be a bit different from our normal understanding of oil distribution. Until 2005, Canada only has 16.5 thousand million barrels, and I need 50 thousand million for one oil icon. (this number in my excel file is wrong I think, but it would not matter for our discussion here)

Yes, but my point was that Canada also has 250+ bbl (billion barrels) of oil in sands, and some more in shales. Older resources don't include these because cost of the technology for extraction was making the process unfeasible. Now they started being able to extract it feasibly. Shale extracton is still not possible. Ok because it is more difficult, this 250bbl shouldn't dirctly be 5 oils, but I think it shouln't be 0 either. 1 oil maybe.

I think Venezuela has significant oil in sands too. If you look at the chart about the middle of the following wikipedia page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves#Oil_reserves_by_country

the differences between the minimum and maximum reserves probably are oil sands, but I am not sure.

Hey, good luck for your study, but playing Civ4 a bit shouldn't hurt, I think

I also think it is too crowded in certain parts of the map. But if I raise the numbers each icon rep. i.e. less resources on the map, other parts of the world would get too few resources, in my opinion. Really, on average, there are only 44 (1406/32) per type of resource , consider that there are 24 civs, I think it is not too much.
[/QUOTE]

I would probably go with about 30 of each, because having a lot of very accessible resources may spoil the resource trade dimension of the game. But I am not sure if that is happening, as I haven't played it yet.

Your map, your call.

Wiki told me that these animals were domesticated by the Ancient Americans and were used for different purposes, including eating its meat.

Ostriches?

You don't need to answer that

 

[Enter]

1)As a spanish student living in Athens i must admit that I wasnt aware that Asia Minor had that much marble.

2)Considering the heritage of the turks i can forward you to Wiki where it clearly states that recent genetical studies prove that.

3)Hippos and wild boar are not in my list of domesticated animals

4)As for the abudance of stone; if its a resource then it must be restricted why then everyone should have the resource next to his first city

5)As for oil;Let me check North sea oil included, ooops, there seems to be more oil reserves in all the places i noted, actually far more.
http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainpages/oilworldmap.html

6)Ok so you guys believe that production equals resources? damn i thought resources+technology+a million different things equal production. Example:
Country A has enough tech and money to produce grapes in mid winter but the fruit is considered exotic there, now country b is a beautiful large country with loads of grassland but little technology. The farmers use little machinery and work only during summertime, as grapes dont tend to grow in mid winter... So do you still believe that resources equals production? Then somehow China is a really fertile place lately it must be the "Chinese season" or something and thats why they got they production so high.

7)Egypt is in Africa, Elephants live in Africa(as well) now how can it be that Egypt has no elephants? b)Carthage and especially Hannibal was quite famous for his use of elephants.

8)UK's reserves for coal are really high and also the leaders of the Industrial era in history should have a second tile of coal even for if its just fluff. Same goes for the Alsace-Loraine region.


---I did got a bit upset by that post. I really don't know what I could say when I read comments like "resources are there to resemble the existance and importance not to fill empty tiles" or "Dont place resources randomly". I have dedicated at least an hour every night over half a year to make this map realistic, and I've admitted that even that this map is far from perfect. Someone then come along, not even bother to spent a minute in google (I suspect he didn't even open up my excel file before commenting), and ask me not to place resource randomly??? I meant, if he really want to play on a map with his fantasy euro-centric world view, he has all his right to make one up for himself - I don't work for Faraxis---By Genghis Kai

Spending a minute in google is not my type of research. I just dont believe in the "u want it, u found it" theory about the net. I gave a try on your map rather than checking your spreadsheet. Now considering my euro centric world view, I ll take it as a compliment. As for "random resources"I wont bother noting which of your posts was, but it was you who said that.Yep, you dont work in firaxis, thank god.

P.S: Books are to be read, wiki is to spent lonely nights of boredom, over and out.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

I have a few questions about the agricultural resources by the way. Did you do anything with the food resources that are not in the game. I mean when I was adding up agricultural numbers for each resource, I did the following groupings (for produce in Turkey, but tropical stuff can be grouped similarly):

Wheat includes barley
Crab includes shrimp
Banana includes all fruits and non-wine grape
Dye includes cotton (I assumed dye represents a broader concept, like textiles)
Incense includes opium and tobacco
Spice includes tea, olive, pistachio, lemon, sugar
Corn includes sunflower
I was undecided about vegetables, beans (peas/lentils/chickpeas) and (hazel/chest/pea/wal)nuts (Turkey has more than half of world hazelnut production)

Yeah, I thought about this issue too. But my final decision was to use just the data for the type of resource alone, rather than it's group, like you have suggested. That's because it could add another bias factor as I would need to judge how to classify resources.

The problem with the stone and marble infos is most of the resources report the production amounts instead of the reserves (unlike the way they do for oil). Moreover, a lot of the resources contradict each other. So it is tough to decide. For example one of my first search results showed Greece to be #3 exporter to USA.

In my first message I didn't point individual marble sites. A googling of "Turkey marble production" gave the top result at http://turkishmarbles.tripod.com/id1.html
which had the following provincal data

Bursa : 1,850 Million m3 (35.8 %)
Denizli : 652 Million m3 (12.6 %)
Afyon : 629 Million m3 (12.2 %)
Tokat : 410 Million m3 (7.9 %)
Canakkale : 252 Million m3 (4.9 %)

I guess this plus the mineral map in my first post may be better help to distribute the marbles in Turkey.

Thanks mate.

I know what you mean, in the middle of writing my thesis I wrote a collection of house rules for D&D, and this document was longer than any of my chapters. Sometimes I think I should just give up and go look for a job in game design industry.

Similar thoughts here

Yes, but my point was that Canada also has 250+ bbl (billion barrels) of oil in sands, and some more in shales. Older resources don't include these because cost of the technology for extraction was making the process unfeasible. Now they started being able to extract it feasibly. Shale extracton is still not possible. Ok because it is more difficult, this 250bbl shouldn't dirctly be 5 oils, but I think it shouln't be 0 either. 1 oil maybe.

I think Venezuela has significant oil in sands too. If you look at the chart about the middle of the following wikipedia page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves#Oil_reserves_by_country

the differences between the minimum and maximum reserves probably are oil sands, but I am not sure.

OK. I checked up a bit on this. I think I will rely on the BP stat, instead of wiki for the time being. But I can add 1 oil for Canada in Athabasca Oil Sands.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

Gentleman,

I'm at a total loss. I cannot modify the team colors or flag decals successfully. I really thought I knew what I was doing . I can make the change for other mods but not this one... so frustrating! I have made the changes to the XML file but it doesn't seem to matter. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Brilliant map by the way! Looking forward to giving it a whirl

Bors,

I am not much better than you are in terms of modding, if simply changing the text in the WBS file wouldn't work (I suppose thats what you tried). Try asking these kind of questions in the mod threads or tech support threads where all the mod gurus live.

 

[X_MasterDave_X]

...Third, we "Americans" (I use that term loosely with you) have a very good reason to be arrogant... it's because we're the best.

the best ?? in what ?? producing Porno Videos ??

your post was the most arrogant post i´ve ever read in the last 10 years...or longer...

..but that is no reason for you, to be proud of that....

People like you.....are the reason, why outside the US ...many people think americans are arrogant...



@Genghis_Kai
sorry for that....and btw you made the nicest earth-map since poeple draw maps on computers...

 

[knigh+]

1)As a spanish student living in Athens i must admit that I wasnt aware that Asia Minor had that much marble.

Sorry about the inaccurate guess then. My example was the Sea of Marmara, named by ancient Greeks, and Marmara is the word (or a derivation of) marble. Or at least that is what one of my Greek friends told me. And indeed, two of the top 5 Turkish marble provinces are on the coasts of that sea.

2)Considering the heritage of the turks i can forward you to Wiki where it clearly states that recent genetical studies prove that.

P.S: Books are to be read, wiki is to spent lonely nights of boredom, over and out.

a) Does this mean your nights are lonely and boring? I find it hard to believe in a lively place like Athens.
b) Genetics is not equal to heritage, because then we would all be Africans. Further down the road, you get to call Turks and Mongols as Central Asians or Steppe Nomads (this initially includes Native Americans but that is 10000BC. By the start of civ, they are separate). This would be the equivalent of saying European. Next degree of separation is Turkic-Mongol in the steppe nomads and Latin-Celtic-Germanic in Europe (obviously both groups have more subgroups than these examples, but we don't need a complete listing of Eurasian tribes for our discussion). So saying Turks are Mongols is like saying Spanish are Germans. They may even have been united under the same banner 2000 years ago, like the Roman Empire or Hun Empires
c) Genetics is not equal to heritage because it involves mixing with conquering tribes. I am sure you have some Arab DNA, as I am sure I have some Hittite and some Greek DNA. You are still Spanish, I am still Turkish.
d) If you look at it from the language point of view, Turkish is totally different than Mongolian (as Spanish is different than German). While various Turkic peoples (Turks from Turkey, Azeris, Turkmens, Uighurs, Uzbeks, Kirghiz, Kazaks, etc) understand each other at varying degrees, whereas nobody understands Mongols (well, we still have common words, like khan for king and yurt for home - although in central asia it means tent-home while in Turkey it means homeland. But we have a lot more common words with French or Arabic).
e) If you look at it from the historical point of view, urbanized Turkish civilizations started many centuries before Mongols. Long before Genghis Khan (who once again brought Turkic and Mongol steppe nomads under one banner, among other things), Turks were building kingdoms, monuments, writing books, and studying sciences while Mongols were still steppe nomads.

3)Hippos and wild boar are not in my list of domesticated animals

Dude, that was intended as a joke of course hippos aren't resources. I totally agree with you in this, Jungles should not have domestic animals.

4)As for the abudance of stone; if its a resource then it must be restricted why then everyone should have the resource next to his first city

Again I agree, but from a different point of view. I think because it is such an abundant resource, it was a mistake on the part of Firaxis to make it into a resource in the first place. What could have been done is having the stone resource symbolize unfractured workable giant blocks of rock, and then reduce the number of improvements that go double speed with stone, down to perhaps only the Monument, MtRushmore, and Pyramids. If you go to the brick size stones like those used for City Walls or Oxford University, those you can get anywhere.
I still think that slot could have been filled with something more meaningful, like some vegetable (there isn't any) or Tin (you know, the non-copper half of bronze working).

5)As for oil;Let me check North sea oil included, ooops, there seems to be more oil reserves in all the places i noted, actually far more.
http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainpages/oilworldmap.html

Nobody says there isn't oil there, it is just not enough to deserve a resource icon on the map.

6)Ok so you guys believe that production equals resources? damn i thought resources+technology+a million different things equal production. Example:
Country A has enough tech and money to produce grapes in mid winter but the fruit is considered exotic there, now country b is a beautiful large country with loads of grassland but little technology. The farmers use little machinery and work only during summertime, as grapes dont tend to grow in mid winter... So do you still believe that resources equals production? Then somehow China is a really fertile place lately it must be the "Chinese season" or something and thats why they got they production so high.

If you are going to write here you have to read what was written since your last message. Because if you did, you would have seen that Genghis Kai and I were discussing the same thing. Of course you are right but there is no way of doing that kind of analysis within the abilities of amateurs (which includes all the modders). If you want to do that level of accuracy of resources, I am sure Genghis Kai would appreciate your constructive input.

7)Egypt is in Africa, Elephants live in Africa(as well) now how can it be that Egypt has no elephants? b)Carthage and especially Hannibal was quite famous for his use of elephants.

a) Species don't have to populate entire continents. Usually they don't bother to cross natural obstacles. As far as ecosystems (and many other things) are concerned, North Africa is considered to be totally different from Sub-Saharan Africa (where the elephants are), as very few non-bird animals can actually survive a trans-Saharan migration.
b) About Egypt you were almost correct. There were elephants in Egypt in prehistoric times, but they were extinct by civtimes. Ancient Egyptians still had access to ivory from Hippopotamus tusks and southern trade routes.
c) I am not sure about Hannibal.

8)UK's reserves for coal are really high and also the leaders of the Industrial era in history should have a second tile of coal even for if its just fluff. Same goes for the Alsace-Loraine region.

First railroads/factories/coal plants of the world were built in those regions doesn't mean they need to be extra rich in coal. The civ controlling those places need to have access to coal and thats all.

Spending a minute in google is not my type of research. I just dont believe in the "u want it, u found it" theory about the net. I gave a try on your map rather than checking your spreadsheet.

I totally agree, and with complement of references as long as a technical paper, Genghis Kai obviously knows the concept of research. The point of that comment was that you hadn't even done that tiny bit of act of curiosity before criticising a work more heavily researched compared to your criticism.
Perhaps us PhDs are a little touchy about research ethics, I don't know, but that was the point made by that comment.

Now considering my euro centric world view, I ll take it as a compliment.

How American of you

(disclaimer: not all Americans are like that...I have many American friends)

As for "random resources"I wont bother noting which of your posts was, but it was you who said that.Yep, you dont work in firaxis, thank god.

Do you actually think before writing? Does that giant excel sheet look like random to you? The "random" you are talking about is not random distribution of resources over the World, it means the distribution of the number of resources determined through research, to be in a given region (which may mean a country or a part of a large country), over the area of that region. And the guy is asking for input for individual countries to make them represent the real world as much as he can. That's why post#66 by a French guy and post#74 by a Turkish guy (myself) detail the locations of the resources in their countries coordinate by coordinate. If you want to help, you can correct some resources in Spain perhaps.

 

[Genghis_Kai]

knigh+ and Enter,

I don't think there is much value in continuing our discussion further. So please kindly stop further posting on this topic.

Enter, I suppose your original intension for your first post was to share your comments on this map. Your voice has definitely been heard and I will consider making changes accordingly.

Anyway, the fact is that the way your first post was written has made me a little upset (I don't believe I have previously said I place resources randomly) and so I expressed my grief in a not very nice way. Apologize if you don’t like those comments. Just as knigh+ said, further constructive comments are always welcome.

 

[JackTheNarrator]

Hi Genghis and first I have to say that your work is very good.

However I want to just give a little comment to improve its realism concerning France's landscape, as I'm French I must say that the two mountains you have put in the south of France should be actually replace by two hills.

Also the west side tiles of the Rhone's river should be plains instead of hills.

That's all for now !

Again great work, if I notice other possible improvements, I promise that I add an another post...

 

[Genghis_Kai]

Hi Genghis and first I have to say that your work is very good.

However I want to just give a little comment to improve its realism concerning France's landscape, as I'm French I must say that the two mountains you have put in the south of France should be actually replace by two hills.

Also the west side tiles of the Rhone's river should be plains instead of hills.

That's all for now !

Again great work, if I notice other possible improvements, I promise that I add an another post...

Hi Jack,

Thanks for your feedback. After revising my reference altas, I removed one of the mountain tiles. My major consideration for keeping the other mountain tiles is keeping the relatively distinct landscape. I have used this principle in the rest of this map. An example is Mt. Tai in Northern China. Its attitude is only about 1500m, which is nothing compare to many other mountains. But since it is standing right in the middle of the northern china plain and so I made it a mountain using this principle.

I have also reviewed other terrains in western europe.

 

[strategyonly]

Just wondering if i can get a copy of your files of the h/t/f for this, i want to make a map, cutting off some of USA and Africa etc.

 

[JackTheNarrator]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for your feedback. After revising my reference altas, I removed one of the mountain tiles. My major consideration for keeping the other mountain tiles is keeping the relatively distinct landscape. I have used this principle in the rest of this map. An example is Mt. Tai in Northern China. Its attitude is only about 1500m, which is nothing compare to many other mountains. But since it is standing right in the middle of the northern china plain and so I made it a mountain using this principle.

I have also reviewed other terrains in western europe.

Well after 2 hours of playing I have to add some minor stuff:

The dorsals (ie: geological formation in the ocean where the oceanical floor is created) shouldn't be set as seas but as ocean, actually the only way to go from europe to america should be by waiting the caravel, passing throught the north east of russia (Bering I think) or like the Vikings do by navigating near the Groeland.

South of France's mediteranean tiles should be plains and not grassland except for the the tiles near the Rhone which should be plains with floodplains.

The hills beetween France and Spain should be a mountain.


That's all I guess...

I return to my game ! (I play as the Romans)

 

[Chrejo]

This earth map Ghangis made ... does it need a seperately downloaded MOD to run? It may seem like a stupid question but I followed his instructions in the readme and it's not showing up in the list of senarios.

I am running off a fresh install of the game and have no MODPACKS or anything so any help on getting this map to work for me would be appreciated lol.

Thank you Ghangis for this map, (and saving me the trouble of trying to accomplish it myself ) I know I'm going to love it.