Gifting cities

[Thunder_Gr]

And also, if I can't gift them to vasals, how am I suposed to make a colony with more than 1 city?

If you have cities on a landmass other than the one your capital is, you have the option to make a colony out of all your cities in that landmass.
Plus, you can liberate cities which have enough of your vassal's culture.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

If you have cities on a landmass other than the one your capital is, you have the option to make a colony out of all your cities in that landmass.
Plus, you can liberate cities which have enough of your vassal's culture.

But what if I don't want to liberate all of them? Only the shoty ones...

 

[JimMorrison]

Why do you say that? If I have a vasal, I am not about to give him a usles plot of land. I want to grow him, not bury him.

But what if I don't want to liberate all of them? Only the shoty ones...

Make up your mind, do you want to give him good cities, or crappy cities?

The -point- is that you do not have a way to decide culture. If the city you select is hopelessly buried in your/other culture, it will never be able to develop its own. What are they going to do, brainwash everyone, rebuild every building with their own architecture, and install "cultural re-education" centers?

I'm not disagreeing that you should be able to give them the city, I'm just saying that because of the way that cultural boundaries function within the Civ4 engine it is absolutely impossible to give them a city that remains useful to them. You can't just draw a line on the ground and say that they own it, if your culture is there, it's yours.

Also I have to say, pillaging was common in history to stop the advance of an army - razing one's one cities was virtually unheard of. I think you should be able to raze it if it is size 3 or smaller perhaps, but a bustling metropolis? You'd be facing the guillotine.

 

[ius_iurandi]

I'd like to see scorched earth as a toggle-able option in FF/FFlat. I don't really care if it has historical basis in _this_ world. Losha Valas' pedia entry gives it enough justification to be doable in Erebus. Just make it a tier 3 spell that takes 5 turns to cast, and cannot be stopped, save by killing the archmage.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I think I would prefer it to be castable by normal troops.
It would take 1 turn per citesen with a -1 turn per troop in the city.

Basicly, my idea is to found a city in a small part of wildernes that I have relegated to my vasal. The vasal has only 1 city left and it is about to fall, so I wanted to gift him that new city away from me but in a safe place to phisicly relocate him. The city is far away from me to be culture safe, but stil in a good position.
Sadly, I could not, so I had to send a legion of vampires to fight my way through the enemy to save him.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I think I would prefer it to be castable by normal troops.
It would take 1 turn per citesen with a -1 turn per troop in the city.

This sounds reasonable, but, IMO, it would have to give to the empire. I do not think killing off your own population would leave the rest of the populance indifferent.
And, also, I think this should only be limited to Neutral/Evil civs, thematically. So, if the Bannor, for example, want to do it, they should adopt Ashen Veil or OO, first.

But this would give Calabim and Sheaim an edge over the others...There should be a different method for them...In case the team decides to implement such a mechanic...

 

[PPQ_Purple]

This sounds reasonable, but, IMO, it would have to give to the empire. I do not think killing off your own population would leave the rest of the populance indifferent.
And, also, I think this should only be limited to Neutral/Evil civs, thematically. So, if the Bannor, for example, want to do it, they should adopt Ashen Veil or OO, first.

But this would give Calabim and Sheaim an edge over the others...There should be a different method for them...In case the team decides to implement such a mechanic...

I think a 1 x per 2 pop killed, lasting pop/2 turns is reasonable.

Good civs should be able to do it but only under certain conditions. One of them would be if they have adopted crusade or AV or OO and another if they are runing crusade.

Also I can cleary see certain civics reducing the or removing it all together.
Probably a -50% from slavery and a NO from Sacrafice the Weak and Crusade becouse the first two thematicly allows you to kill your population and the second justifies any action in the service of war.

Also, don't forget it moving your alligement - pop/3 and adding to the AC as if you were raising the city.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I think a 1 x per 2 pop killed, lasting pop/2 turns is reasonable.

pop/2 turns? I think this is too little. IMO, it should last at least 20 turns in standard speed, adjusted for quick/Epic/Marathon/

Good civs should be able to do it but only under certain conditions. One of them would be if they have adopted crusade or AV or OO and another if they are runing crusade.

A crusade is supposed to be an offensive civic. I do not see any justification in razing your own cities when running on a crusade...

Also I can cleary see certain civics reducing the or removing it all together.
Probably a -50% from slavery and a NO from Sacrafice the Weak and Crusade becouse the first two thematicly allows you to kill your population and the second justifies any action in the service of war.

Slavery may force people to do things, but they do not make go away. Instead it accumulates faster, IMO. Sacrifice the weak could reduce it, but, when razing a city, you do not only sacrifice the weak...It is a slaughter.

Also, don't forget it moving your alligement - pop/3 and adding to the AC as if you were raising the city.

This is a case only if you run on flexible alignments(or whatever the actual name of the option is). If you don't, it should not be allowed to good civs. Too many innocent people belonging to own civ are sacrificed in the process.
In addition, I thing the shift(for the alignments version) should be at least -pop*10. This action is far more evil than razing a hostile empire's city.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

pop/2 turns? I think this is too little. IMO, it should last at least 20 turns in standard speed, adjusted for quick/Epic/Marathon/

Remeber, if you are raising a 2 pop city, that makes it 1 in all your cities for 1. But if you are raising a 20 pop city that turns into 10 for 10 turns witch can be crippling.
Althou I agree that there should be a minimum placed at say 5 for 10 turns.

A crusade is supposed to be an offensive civic. I do not see any justification in razing your own cities when running on a crusade...

Crusade is not only a offensive civic. It represents the state of "No quarter given holy war." Where all is fair gain and one would rather die than submit to the enemy. Contrary to it's name, crusade esential represents a all out war of extermination.

Slavery may force people to do things, but they do not make go away. Instead it accumulates faster, IMO. Sacrifice the weak could reduce it, but, when razing a city, you do not only sacrifice the weak...It is a slaughter.

Under sacrafice the weak, the logic of the pesant would go:
"He was weak, he woukd not have held the city, so he was killed. Eather way he would have died." But there would also be a: "They were weak, but the leader desides who is weak. Rebel? Err.. I will pass." You have to remeber the power of complete information controll.

This is a case only if you run on flexible alignments(or whatever the actual name of the option is). If you don't, it should not be allowed to good civs. Too many innocent people belonging to own civ are sacrificed in the process.
In addition, I thing the shift(for the alignments version) should be at least -pop*10. This action is far more evil than razing a hostile empire's city.

I agree that it should only work with FA activated.
But a 10*pop is to much. Simply becouse this is what the world expects you to do anyway. Especialy if you are the demon race or calibim.

I think that a -2*pop with a minimum of 10 is most apropriate.
And tripple to the AC bust, double if you are evil.

 

[Valkrionn]

Remeber, if you are raising a 2 pop city, that makes it 1 in all your cities for 1. But if you are raising a 20 pop city that turns into 10 for 10 turns witch can be crippling.
Althou I agree that there should be a minimum placed at say 5 for 10 turns.

I would have to agree. This way, the unhappiness would scale nicely with the size of the city.

Crusade is not only a offensive civic. It represents the state of "No quarter given holy war." Where all is fair gain and one would rather die than submit to the enemy. Contrary to it's name, crusade esential represents a all out war of extermination.

I agree, Bannor under Crusade seem like they would do anything necessary to win, even if it means destroying their own cities.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

personally, I've always loved the "abandon/raze/demolish cities" modcomp and I'd love to see it included in FF. actually, it might be one of those things that are prone to cause a revolution in your empire