GIII Beta
- Thread starter superslug
- Start date
Looking forward to the details.
archphoenix
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 355
sanabas, culture trait, without any doubt.
only 1 AA SGL! only 1 MA SGL!!
and only 1 mountain, zero hills!!!
I absolutely admire the date under this circumstance.
Looking forward to the details too.
only 1 AA SGL! only 1 MA SGL!!
and only 1 mountain, zero hills!!!
I absolutely admire the date under this circumstance.
Looking forward to the details too.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
wow.
I just was screwing around - played a chieftain tiny game as germans... I got a 1415 game,with 3 SGL's. With 2 cows, 4 hills...
1390 with just 2 SGL's?? very impressive...
I just was screwing around - played a chieftain tiny game as germans... I got a 1415 game,with 3 SGL's. With 2 cows, 4 hills...
1390 with just 2 SGL's?? very impressive...
Reading the previous games, especially the uni & shakespeare's dates compared to mine, convinced me that fast research was very important. Logical extension of that is to choose scientific opponents, as it's the best way to up the tech pace. It runs 2 risks, first is that gifting AIs up to the next age can cause unwanted cascades. Solution to that is to check what builds are in progress, i.e. don't gift Theory of Gravity to AIs if a cascade from a 600 shield wonder might happen. Second problem is that scientific AIs get more SGLs. Not much you can do about that, and an occasional game will be torpedoed by an AI suddenly building Pyramids due to an Iron Working, Mysticism or similar SGL.
OK, the 1530 game first. Typo before, it was actually 4 cows and a wheat, but no river, hills or mountain. As I said, not a single SGL anywhere. Had my island to myself, and had Ivory on the other side. By the time I got there, Babylon had claimed the Ivory, but a city founded next door and a rushed library grabbed it for me.
The start:
The finish:
The builds:
I was actually getting a little bit worried about SS launch in this game, one AI had 5 parts built, 3 in process, and was only 1 or 2 techs away from being able to start on all 10.
OK, the 1530 game first. Typo before, it was actually 4 cows and a wheat, but no river, hills or mountain. As I said, not a single SGL anywhere. Had my island to myself, and had Ivory on the other side. By the time I got there, Babylon had claimed the Ivory, but a city founded next door and a rushed library grabbed it for me.
The start:
The finish:
The builds:
Spoiler :
I was actually getting a little bit worried about SS launch in this game, one AI had 5 parts built, 3 in process, and was only 1 or 2 techs away from being able to start on all 10.
OK, and the 1390 game. Same theory as before, same 5 opponents. Seems that the great bunny rabbit was smiling down on me for this game.
great bunny rabbit being nice to me:
1)My only non-culture builds in Constantinople were a curragh and a settler to start, a factory, a hydro plant, and a nuclear plant. Every other turn was dedicated to building culture. No rax, no market, no harbour, etc.
2) 2 or 3-turn anarchy.
3) Ivory close enough to go and found a city by.
4) Only 2 SGLs, but nicely timed ones.
5) Only 2 water tiles, the absolute minimum on a coastal start.
6) I only missed 6 wonders, with ToA the only one worth more than 2cpt.
Great bunny rabbit's revenge:
1) Sharing an island with the Ottomans, meaning I finished up with only 7 or 8 cities total. No forbidden palace, slower research late in the IA.
2) No Iron, and especially no coal. Iron wasn't a problem, I traded for it eventually. Coal was a problem, I didn't get any, and hence had no RR, until 1200AD, only 38 turns from the finish.
3) Persian Immortals landing, and forcing me to sell off a library in order to have enough cash for an embassy with the Ottomans so I could ally them in.
4) My Ivory city being on the germans island. They were gracious, but declared on me anyway. I had taken 2 spears, 1 archer & 2 dromons for defense just in case, I still had to rush a harbour, and switch my build to SoZ immediately. I didn't actually build an ancient cav until late in the MA when I traded for Ivory from the again-gracious germans, only had 5 or so total.
5) No heroic Epic, as by the time I was in a position to have a proper war, it was too late to make much difference.
Shields: I had 27 at size 12 in Republic.
40 during my GA.
31 at size 12 once I entered the MA
40 once I built Shake's.
60 once I built a factory
80 once I built Hydro Plant, in 1030
104 once I finally started to RR
130 once I built nuclear plant.
Basically 40 shields was very good during the MA. 40/60 was very bad during the IA, but I deliberately didn't gift the AI's up to ensure I built Neton's. I gifted them up to Steam Power afterwards, but I was far enough ahead on tech that cascades weren't an issue. Immediate coal and an extra SGL or 2 could have reduced the date a few turns, but not much.
Research: My research was at max the entire game, except when bankruptcy was an issue. Initial research path was writing (sgl), literature, philo, trade for code of laws, which cost me a fair bit of gpt that I couldn't recoup, and take Republic as the freebie. I went literature-philo instead of code-philo, as they take the same time, but ensure I don't run out of builds. I gambled that somebody would have code for me in time, and was prepared to delay getting philo a turn or two if necessary. Code appeared with 3 or 4 turns to spare. Freebies were Theology + 3 first tier in the MA, Steam Power in the IA, and Nuclear Power + 3 first tier (no rocketry?) in the modern.
The start:
The middle:
The end:
The builds, with commentary:
This game will be tough to improve on, but it is still very doable. SoZ was built in 800BC, and made me 1240 culture. In theory, I could have got an SGL for ToA, and 2 MGLs in the brief war I had, and built ToA, H. Epic in 775, 750. That's another 2450ish culture, which would cut 15 turns off the date. That makes 1315. Just the SGL for ToA makes it 1355.
great bunny rabbit being nice to me:
1)My only non-culture builds in Constantinople were a curragh and a settler to start, a factory, a hydro plant, and a nuclear plant. Every other turn was dedicated to building culture. No rax, no market, no harbour, etc.
2) 2 or 3-turn anarchy.
3) Ivory close enough to go and found a city by.
4) Only 2 SGLs, but nicely timed ones.
5) Only 2 water tiles, the absolute minimum on a coastal start.
6) I only missed 6 wonders, with ToA the only one worth more than 2cpt.
Great bunny rabbit's revenge:
1) Sharing an island with the Ottomans, meaning I finished up with only 7 or 8 cities total. No forbidden palace, slower research late in the IA.
2) No Iron, and especially no coal. Iron wasn't a problem, I traded for it eventually. Coal was a problem, I didn't get any, and hence had no RR, until 1200AD, only 38 turns from the finish.
3) Persian Immortals landing, and forcing me to sell off a library in order to have enough cash for an embassy with the Ottomans so I could ally them in.
4) My Ivory city being on the germans island. They were gracious, but declared on me anyway. I had taken 2 spears, 1 archer & 2 dromons for defense just in case, I still had to rush a harbour, and switch my build to SoZ immediately. I didn't actually build an ancient cav until late in the MA when I traded for Ivory from the again-gracious germans, only had 5 or so total.
5) No heroic Epic, as by the time I was in a position to have a proper war, it was too late to make much difference.
Shields: I had 27 at size 12 in Republic.
40 during my GA.
31 at size 12 once I entered the MA
40 once I built Shake's.
60 once I built a factory
80 once I built Hydro Plant, in 1030
104 once I finally started to RR
130 once I built nuclear plant.
Basically 40 shields was very good during the MA. 40/60 was very bad during the IA, but I deliberately didn't gift the AI's up to ensure I built Neton's. I gifted them up to Steam Power afterwards, but I was far enough ahead on tech that cascades weren't an issue. Immediate coal and an extra SGL or 2 could have reduced the date a few turns, but not much.
Research: My research was at max the entire game, except when bankruptcy was an issue. Initial research path was writing (sgl), literature, philo, trade for code of laws, which cost me a fair bit of gpt that I couldn't recoup, and take Republic as the freebie. I went literature-philo instead of code-philo, as they take the same time, but ensure I don't run out of builds. I gambled that somebody would have code for me in time, and was prepared to delay getting philo a turn or two if necessary. Code appeared with 3 or 4 turns to spare. Freebies were Theology + 3 first tier in the MA, Steam Power in the IA, and Nuclear Power + 3 first tier (no rocketry?) in the modern.
The start:
The middle:
The end:
The builds, with commentary:
Spoiler :
This game will be tough to improve on, but it is still very doable. SoZ was built in 800BC, and made me 1240 culture. In theory, I could have got an SGL for ToA, and 2 MGLs in the brief war I had, and built ToA, H. Epic in 775, 750. That's another 2450ish culture, which would cut 15 turns off the date. That makes 1315. Just the SGL for ToA makes it 1355.
killercane
Deity
I think you have silenced this thread with your 1390 game Sanabas....
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
man, I gotta get started on this gauntle. I have gotten sidetracked into lower level games, trying to break 1300, and not coming close.
but I've learned a lot...
am gonna try this, but as ottomans, not byzantines. I like industrious, Sipahi are great for leader fishing late in the game and I can try going alpha/writing/CoL/Philo and I don't have to rely on finding the AI to build pyramids. and industrious workers rock...
but I've learned a lot...
am gonna try this, but as ottomans, not byzantines. I like industrious, Sipahi are great for leader fishing late in the game and I can try going alpha/writing/CoL/Philo and I don't have to rely on finding the AI to build pyramids. and industrious workers rock...
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
nope. non-seafaring doesn't work too well - I can't get fast SGL, and have often gotten beat to both pyramids *and* oracle.
Back to byzantines. Doesn't help that I keep rioting, cause I've been playing a bunch of low-level 20K games, trying to beat 1265 AD. Haven't come close, either.
Back to byzantines. Doesn't help that I keep rioting, cause I've been playing a bunch of low-level 20K games, trying to beat 1265 AD. Haven't come close, either.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
If I remember to copy the files to my USB key I'll submit the best effort from my handful of games, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't make the table (mid 1600s finish IIRC).
Bartleby said:
Should make it easily. IIRC, there's only 5 games pre-1600 posted in the thread so far & going into the tables.
Just checked, there's 6. 2 each by Tone & me, 1 each by Archphoenix & Twonky. Add in your game, and Bluejay is going from 1st to 8th in one month. Ouch.
automatedteller said:
Who are your opponents? Find a good inland start, and you should be able to handbuild both Pyramids & Oracle, just in time for your revolt and MoM to kick off your GA. That gives you 5 techs for SGL fishing as well. I'd suggest trying to have your build order as explorer (warrior/curragh depending on start)-settler-pyramids. Have the settler found nearby and start cranking out the workers, improve 12 tiles, join the workers up, and off you go.
sanabas said:
I've noticed that!
I'm working on another, but to get a really good game, one needs (1) good starting location (2) good enemy location (3) SGL luck and (4) good technique. Mapfinder for #1; luck for #2 and #3; practice and advice from others (thanks to all of you!) for #4. All this takes time, and life keeps interfering.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, back to byzantines. had a good little game going - ivory right there, decent shields, kicked off the GA with the mauseleum, people kept declaring on me, which took care of my happiness...
got an MGL pretty early on an AC vs horseman battle! unfortunately, I didn't have enough garrison in the capitol, so the next wave of horsemen were able to take it, and my leader... *sigh*
been playing way too many warlord level games in an attempt to beat the earliest time - demigod opponents are a *little* bit better.
I will get one in, though.
got an MGL pretty early on an AC vs horseman battle! unfortunately, I didn't have enough garrison in the capitol, so the next wave of horsemen were able to take it, and my leader... *sigh*
been playing way too many warlord level games in an attempt to beat the earliest time - demigod opponents are a *little* bit better.
I will get one in, though.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
well, it's no bar raising, but I do have a game - 1595.
Pretty standard - plains start, with 2 cows and a deer in the woods, with ivory near by, and a fair amount of wheat and cow scattered around the island.
played with germany, russia, persia, and ottomans. Couldn't find them forever it seemed - had to run a barracks for awhile before getting mysticism.
Got several SGL's, but mainly later, which led to interesting issues like not having anything to build a lot. I don't think I expanded enough, so my research suffered a bit, and I found myself in more wars than I expected at era changes, so I don't think I managed to get any extra free techs.
That said, I got almost everything - I think I missed Pyramids, ToA, Lighthouse, KT (by a turn) and Sun Tzu' and Leo's.
Main excitement was, near the end, Russia (who got the lighthouse) was the big power and had several cities on my island. I got the bright idea to plant a spy, who was caught...
the last 10 turns were much more exciting than they should have been, as cathy was source of saltpeter for cav's, and she had marines, who took my undefended capitol!!!! Fortunately, the AI sucks at invasions and so I got it back quickly... but it was more excitement than I could really have wished for.
What I should have done differently:
Gone to war *much* earlier, when Russia landed on my island. Took me a long time to get coal and there was a supply on my island, but russia had it. The ancient cavs could have been put to good use, I think.
Gotten an SGL that would have given me pyramids
If I can get to it, I'll try another one. I'm pretty sure that an SGL that can be used for Pyramids is the key to the game, because that fuels growth, which helps with research, besides the fact that you have to rush at least 1 of the 400 shield AA wonders, cause you can't build them all from scratch and it's tough to get a really good score without them
More war is important, I think. Much more war, to get armies and leaders...
Pretty standard - plains start, with 2 cows and a deer in the woods, with ivory near by, and a fair amount of wheat and cow scattered around the island.
played with germany, russia, persia, and ottomans. Couldn't find them forever it seemed - had to run a barracks for awhile before getting mysticism.
Got several SGL's, but mainly later, which led to interesting issues like not having anything to build a lot. I don't think I expanded enough, so my research suffered a bit, and I found myself in more wars than I expected at era changes, so I don't think I managed to get any extra free techs.
That said, I got almost everything - I think I missed Pyramids, ToA, Lighthouse, KT (by a turn) and Sun Tzu' and Leo's.
Main excitement was, near the end, Russia (who got the lighthouse) was the big power and had several cities on my island. I got the bright idea to plant a spy, who was caught...
the last 10 turns were much more exciting than they should have been, as cathy was source of saltpeter for cav's, and she had marines, who took my undefended capitol!!!! Fortunately, the AI sucks at invasions and so I got it back quickly... but it was more excitement than I could really have wished for.
What I should have done differently:
Gone to war *much* earlier, when Russia landed on my island. Took me a long time to get coal and there was a supply on my island, but russia had it. The ancient cavs could have been put to good use, I think.
Gotten an SGL that would have given me pyramids
If I can get to it, I'll try another one. I'm pretty sure that an SGL that can be used for Pyramids is the key to the game, because that fuels growth, which helps with research, besides the fact that you have to rush at least 1 of the 400 shield AA wonders, cause you can't build them all from scratch and it's tough to get a really good score without them
More war is important, I think. Much more war, to get armies and leaders...
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
AutomatedTeller said:
Did that not destroy all the (doubled) culture buildings, or was your 20k city not the capitol?
If it happened to me, the computer would've left via the window.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
it did, yes.
But at that point, it didn't matter - I don't think it even made a difference of a turn (other than the turn of my not having the capitol). I took it back immediately, of course.
I rebuilt the buildings, but boy was I worried. Nothing like losing a game that was won due to sheer stupidity. I was very fortunate that the AI doesn't know how to use Marines (that's how they took it - a marine walked in from a ship). The other marines they had made land attacks on the other side of the "empire", and those could get beat up with a combination of artillery and guerillas.
But at that point, it didn't matter - I don't think it even made a difference of a turn (other than the turn of my not having the capitol). I took it back immediately, of course.
I rebuilt the buildings, but boy was I worried. Nothing like losing a game that was won due to sheer stupidity. I was very fortunate that the AI doesn't know how to use Marines (that's how they took it - a marine walked in from a ship). The other marines they had made land attacks on the other side of the "empire", and those could get beat up with a combination of artillery and guerillas.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
Thinking about it, that close to the end of the game it's not going to matter so much. Still, I'd have had a heart attack.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
oh - I did. heck, when cathy declared, I swore, and then launched as large an attack as I could find on the cities on my island - took 2 or 3, wiped out the cossacks I could find - just couldn't do anything about the others. was just plain stupid - especially since cathy had been supplying me with saltpeter and rubber, so I couldn't build cavs or infantry anymore. Fortunately, she hadn't built any tanks, bombers or modern ships, or I would have been blown to pieces. And if she had actually assaulted my capitol with all her marines, I dunno that I could have held out.
This Gauntlet has now closed. The following are the results :
1st: sanabas 1390AD
2nd: archphoenix 1425AD
3rd: Tone 1470AD
4th: Automated Teller 1595AD
5th: Bartleby 1645AD
The Gamma Gauntlet has now begun.
:1st: sanabas 1390AD
2nd: archphoenix 1425AD
3rd: Tone 1470AD
4th: Automated Teller 1595AD
5th: Bartleby 1645AD
The Gamma Gauntlet has now begun.
Bartleby said:
It destroys all the buildings, but doesn't destroy the wonders. And as soon as you take back the city, the wonders are producing doubled culture again. You'd lose 34cpt from palace, library, uni, temple, cath, col. But you'd still have ~100cpt remaining. What would really suck would be if the AI razed the city due to fliprisk.
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