GIII Beta

Tone · Apr 25, 2006

sanabas said:
Definitely agree with that. I assume you went lit over republic because philo gave you the SGL? 1075BC is the start of your GA off your build list, and at 800BC you're a republic and still in GA. Does that mean you revolted midway through your GA?

Agree on the AI analysis too, if you've hit philo around 1100BC, you're a bit lucky to make the slingshot. In fact, that was my main problem if I tried to detour to Mysticism, I'd miss the sling. I just went straight for philo and trusted the AI to research Mysticism and Masonry for me.

I've just checked the save. I got Phil as 1450BC came around, got lucky with a 3 turn revolution and then went for lit. The SGL was for Lit in 1225BC. I had only 8 turns left to complete the Oracle by then with the bin over half full, so I decided to complete the Oracle by hand and then use the SGL for the GLib. I went for Rep over Lit because I wanted the full commerce that Colossus/Republic gives asap. I also had three hills and three cows that were limited by food/production. I tend to go for Rep as soon as I've taken up my early quick research SGL chances (in this case CB and Myst). There was no chance of me losing this race; the Mayans hadn't got Writing when I got Phil and the Americans and Incans hadn't even got Alphabet. I don't know about the Zulu but they were so backwards when I found them that I doubt that they had even Alphabet either.

In the second set I've found that I can get the Republic slingshot after going for Mas, CB and Myst but it's very close and I'm dependant upon isolated AIs. That's normally around the 1100BC-1000BC mark so it's pushing the limits I feel. Choosing the right combination of opponants is key to this. I'm even considering not making contact for a while until my research is well on the way towards the slingshot in order to avoid giving them a discount for their research on those early techs. I'm not sure though because I like to know what techs they do have.

I'll be interested to know how you get on with the Babs Pangea. I would imagine that the tech pace will lead to some cascades but who knows?

Twonky · Apr 25, 2006

Ouch, so my 1570 AD finish is beaten already.

This time, I chose the Mayans on a 80% water pangea with Zulu/ America/ Inca/ Mongols and got very lucky with a SGL for CB!! It was used for the Pyramids (triggering a very early GA). Thanks to this, my build rate could match with the somewhat high techpace. The AIs research was significantly slower this time, as they were engaged in wars for most of the time after their initial expansion, which also made them build less wonders. The Americans were extinct at the dawn of the MA, and with Chivalry I knocked out the Mongols and the Incas - so it was down to Shaka and me. From this point, the AI did not interfere with the wonder planning at all.

So why did I not finish earlier? Well, I guess my base shield value was rather low - again I had no hills in reach. It also took me probably too long to get rails. And being non-SCI resulted in getting 2 SGLs (the 2nd for Steel) only. And I ran out of wonders in mid-IA.

Spoiler build list :

Spoiler city view :

killercane · Apr 26, 2006

Test of my new Mistfitian avatar... And for relevance, I have had a hard time getting an early SGL so far. And I have given up some excellent starts for just that reason...

AutomatedTeller · Apr 27, 2006

I have a start going as the byzantines where I have some good land, an island to myself (most of my first ones have had me on an island with the Aztecs - no fun there) and an early SGL which I will use for ToA once the GLib is finished.

I found it much easier to get a coastal start with the Byzantines than Babylon or Ottomans - do other people find that? I guess seafaring Civs' are more likely to start right on the coast, which may be a good reason to use them...

Tone · Apr 27, 2006

Yes. I set mapfinder off in the morning when I go to work and come home to about 40-50 saves. Some I discard due to poor commerce or poor shields and some end up not lending themselves to a solid 20K game (eg sharing a small island with a Zulu neighbour) but I know that there are plenty more saves available with the seafaring Byzantines so I can afford to just start again. I have had some really great starts but no SGL luck in about 15 games played up to around 10AD. It hurts when you discard a 30+spt capital when you're well into the MA and you've not had any SGL luck. With this current poor run of SGL luck, I'm awaiting a glut of them in the not too distant future.

AutomatedTeller · Apr 27, 2006

well, rats. So far, I've had a lot of starts where the Aztecs start right next to me, 1 where I got an early SGL, but I didn't garrison my capitol and the Aztecs landed two jags right next to it and walked in, and another where I was really badly isolated, got no SGL's and actually had a couple of turns where I had no culture to build, at all!! was very sad...

sanabas · Apr 27, 2006

*muttermutterfivecowsandnohillsorshieldstobeseenmutter*

As for the Byzantines, seafaring civs will always have a coastal start. That's one reason to use them, the bigger one is starting with Alphabet.

Tone · Apr 29, 2006

I've raised the bar to 1470AD (unless there is an unknown game out there with a better date already). Here's a list of builds:

The start was nice.

I decided that the only way to keep production high was to settle on the cow. It's not always the best use of a cow but in this case it provided a nice early boost with the capital centre giving 2 spt.

My rivals were Incans, Mayans, Americans and the Zulu again. I liked the starts I was getting when I researched CB and Myst before going onto the Republic slingshot path. With three Mas civs out there, that tech becomes pretty cheap to buy if you can find them whilst they are isolated. I still haven't got an SGL for CB or Myst but this was still a pretty good game as I got two in the AA.

My first problem was that when I rushed the Pyramids in 1700BC, the Mayans cascaded to the Oracle and so I had no culture to build. I wasn't sure how advanced the Maya were as they were the only civ I hadn't yet been able to find so I didn't want to deviate away from CoL-Phil-Rep.

I kicked my GA off with MoM and had a powerful capital.

I also had two more irrigated cows to mine so that it would still pull in more than 30spt once my GA was over. For research I was looking to head for Education asap and with the GLib only taking 10 more turns I was hoping to pick up some techs from my 'friends' without having to help them to progress. This worked out just fine, aided by the fact that my free tech for the Middle Ages was Mono and I soon had a tech lead of half an era.

The lack of ivory was a problem though as SoZ has a great cpt/cost ratio and I missed it even more when both the Americans and the Zulu decided to land on my shores in 370BC.

I had just 7 warriors, a horseman (all regs) and one dromon so I guess that I was asking for trouble. A couple of rushes and converted builds to get some horses, spears (iron was too far away from my capital) and dromons and I was able to deal with the intial rush. The real bonus was the war fever that kept all my cities productive-much more effective than temples and caths!

I kept away from Astro for longer than usual to maintain the ability to build dromons just in case the number of galleys arriving ever exceeded my ability to deal with the landings. The MGL fishing was good sport and once I eventually got one, Heroic Epic helped me get about 5 more (I lost count).

I had allied with the Incans soon after the initial attack but they backstabbed me and eventually the Mayans joined in as well. I took peace with the Americans a couple of times when they had plenty of cash to give me but I was at war with the others all the time. The downside was that I had no help with research beyond the AA and so I had a massive period of time after I had built Hoover where I had no culture buildings available. My free tech for MT was Ecology so no wonder tech there either!

Improving this? I was disappointed that the Oracle was lost. I'm sure that the Mayans were isolated at the start so maybe I need to consider a different rival if they have a tendency to head towards Myst. Access to ivory would have been nice. I'm not sure of the validity of going for ToA unless there is a glut of SGLs as there is always something better to build when this wonder is available. I do think that I should have deviated to get Chivalry for KT though. I was happy with the wars though so maybe I need to consider winding up the other civs to get them to declare on me if I get another start with a decent sized island to myself.

AutomatedTeller · Apr 29, 2006

well, the Oracle was lost because you got the SGL that rushed pyramids.

That's a trade anyone would make - same culture, faster. I dunno what you can do to keep that from happening - build Oracle by hand, then rush Pyramids? Build Oracle and save the GL for GLib? I did that, in one game - don't think it was the right thing to do.

Tone · Apr 29, 2006

AutomatedTeller said:
well, the Oracle was lost because you got the SGL that rushed pyramids.

That's a trade anyone would make - same culture, faster.

I should have given more details. I had not made contact with the Mayans but I had contacts with the others. The other civs that started with Masonry (Americans and Incans) did not have Myst and so I rushed the Pyramids keeping my fingers crossed that a cascade wouldn't happen. I was wrong so what makes three civs that start out with the same techs choose different research paths? Was it the Mayans prefered choice of techs or perhaps the others headed for another tech that I knew, such as Alphabet?

sanabas · Apr 29, 2006

Tone said:
I should have given more details. I had not made contact with the Mayans but I had contacts with the others. The other civs that started with Masonry (Americans and Incans) did not have Myst and so I rushed the Pyramids keeping my fingers crossed that a cascade wouldn't happen. I was wrong so what makes three civs that start out with the same techs choose different research paths? Was it the Mayans prefered choice of techs or perhaps the others headed for another tech that I knew, such as Alphabet?

Which civ appears to make a difference. Left to their own devices, the ottomans & the inca tend to beeline for monarchy, whereas others eem to prefer Iron Working, maths, or writing.

Pentium · Apr 30, 2006

Heh. Today I started a game of Civ3 after a long time, and it looks I'm hooked again. I guess I'll have to try this Gauntlet soon.

Pentium · May 3, 2006

First attempt: Reaching 10k in the 1500s. Not much chances, are there?

archphoenix · May 3, 2006

I study Tone's 1470AD game, and consider the chance to raise this bar
is get a CB SGL and ivory nearby,
and have the same SGL luck, that is, expect the cb sgl, at least 1 MA SGL,
and a decent start place.

I get a cb-sgl game with 29 shields at 12 pops, ivory nearby,

and amazingly get 5 SGLs total, though 2 of them contribute only culture 300 points.

so i raise the bar to 1425AD.

the bar is easy to raise again,
one only need a better era free-tech luck, with the same SGL luck, equivalent start
place, and ivory nearby to build Soz or follow Oracle fishing strategy to build Oracle.

Spoiler build and culture list :

Spoiler era spoiler :

Spoiler start place :

archphoenix · May 3, 2006

Pentium said:
First attempt: Reaching 10k in the 1500s. Not much chances, are there?

heavily use the utilitys or software: "mapfinding"!

set aside some good map for HOF use, then try some maps
follow the same strategy.

after some attempt, score improved.

for 20K another impotant tools need:20KCalculator

Tone · May 3, 2006

archphoenix :goodjob:

. I've been trying for an SGL from CB or Myst without any luck in around 60-70 starts. If someone gets a couple of early SGLs, LulThyme's best date for this level will be beaten. You were only one turn short of matching that date as it is..

AutomatedTeller · May 3, 2006

1425!!

I think Ivory and getting the ultra early SGL for pyramids is the key, cause Pyramids drives growth with granaries and puts an early stop on some wonder cascades, since you are going to get colossus, anyway.

Also, SoZ gets you your units, so you can *try* to get Heroic Epic...

btw Tone - I think that is pretty bad luck. In 60 starts, you have only about a 5% chance of not getting an SGL from a first tech. Makes me wonder if one of the AI is researching CB/Myst along with you.

archphoenix · May 3, 2006

Tone said:
I've been trying for an SGL from CB or Myst without any luck in around 60-70 starts.

Too bad luck. :eek:

0.95^70=0.0276=2.76%
that is, one will get a SGL 97.3% chance in 70 games.
I also meet this, no sgl in more than 50 games, :sad:

aonther meet 2-3 in 20 games.

AutomatedTeller said:
Also, SoZ gets you your units, so you can *try* to get Heroic Epic...

yes, that is another importance of SoZ, in this game,
I accumulate more than a dozen ancient knight, but don't
dare to declare until chivalry.

AutomatedTeller · May 4, 2006

man, I have to actually start playing this gauntlet. I got caught up trying to beat the best time ever.. which has taught me a lot about this stuff....

sanabas · May 4, 2006

I have submitted two more games for this gauntlet.

Settings: Byzantines, 70% 'pelago, wet, 3 million, and I think the middle temperature. Might have been warm. Opponents: Ottomans, Persia, Babylon, Germany, Russia (i.e. all non-alphabet scientific civs.)

Game 1: 2 cows, freshwater lake, 1 wheat, zero hills or mountains.
Not a single SGL to be seen, 1530 finish.

Game 2: 4 cows, river, 1 wine, 1 mountain, zero hills. 1 AA SGL for pyramids, 1 MA SGL for Bach's, 1390 finish.

I will post screenies, build lists, etc later. Need to actually take the screenies first.

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