Give France an ROP?

[Chieftess]

Here's a thought (seeing that our territory is about to become a Babo-Franco battleground).

Sign an ROP with France. They'll be able to shoot into Babylonian territory.

Effects?

- France will overwhelm Babylon and defeat them.
- One less civ to worry about when the UN comes around.
- All of France's troops will be concentrated in one area (should they choose to attack us at a much later date, we know where they are). Once an AI's forces are concentrated like that (far off place), they tend to do poorly militarily.
- A chance to culture flip some French-captured cities.

 

[blackheart]

Let's make things interesting and help Babylon.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I'm with blackheart - France right now is very strong. Why would we want to give them more cities, more unit support, more income, etc. Babylon has little chance to win, but if we give them a RoP, they can at least delay France. Also, trying to culture flip some cities will be hard if we only have border cities..

Anyhow, I am still against signing any RoPs. Some of our cities aren't well defended, and a stack of even 5-10 Cavalry could decimate one, if not more cities.

 

[Octavian X]

You overestimate the intelligence of the AI, Ginger.

I've only seen one instance where the AI has taken advantage an ROP to attack an undefended city. (Cheiftess, I think you remember this) Back in DG1, we accidently let our top production city, PDX, situated in the middle of the empire, empty of units. We had a RoP with the neighboring Iroquois, and they sent a single infanty into the city, and captured it. Needless to say, we beat the crap out of Hiawatha and added a few provinces in the process.

Let's go ahead and sign the RoP. I'm with Chieftess on this one - let France do our dirty work.

 

[Provolution]

or we could ask them to leave our lands, and keep both nations intact.

 

[Furiey]

I'm tempted to go with Provo on this one, at least keep them apart until our MPP with France ends, then we won't be drawn into it unless we choose to. Once the MPP is out of the way we can chose the role we play, either to continue to keep them apart, take what we want of Babylon, leave the French to it, or even protect key Babylonian cities to keep them alive. Then it will be our choice.

I've only seen one instance where the AI has taken advantage an ROP to attack an undefended city.

Unfortunately I've seen far too many examples of this, my early games were littered with them, until I stopped giving ROPs in such circumstances.

Of course if we don't give a ROP and allow them to tresspass rather than demand they leave we should use our troops to control where they go.

 

[MOTH]

Until our MPP expires and is cancelled we should definately not give an ROP to France. We also have 2 GPT deals with France (57 GPT expires in 2 turns and 282 gpt expires in 8 turns) and 1 GPT deal with Babylon (11 GPT expires in 7 turns). If the MPP is triggered and we break our deal with Babylon then there goes our reputation...

Another question, did France already have the GA? I would guess it could have been triggered in either the Russian war or when they wiped out Rome. Is there a way to be sure about this?

 

[Provolution]

I think the wisest thing here, in line with Furieys argument, is to keep the antagonists separated, and then minimize the impact of that war, based on the same principle we ran for Russia and so on. We need Babylon somehow intact, as it may be a good vote for us.
I am sure the AI is not capable of handling a naval invasion.

 

[Nobody]

i hate it when freinds fight, lets just keep neutral. we shouldnt let france take those citys, but if babylon triggers our MPP with france we should take all of babylon (neutrality is byfar the best think in terms of Votes)

 

[Ashburnham]

France has long been an ally of Japanatica, while Babylon has been a tempermental neighbor at best. In any conflict with the two nations, I think we should stand by our French allies. However, that doesn't mean we should send in all our troops to sack Babylon. Our position should be that of the USA in the early parts of World War II. We should be an economic and transportational ally of France, but not actual combatants.

Though I hate to see nations fight, we need to stand by our friends. Sign the ROP.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Actually, our relationships with Babylon are better than most. Sure they abet a Hostile Power (Russia), but they are still a vote that we can court. Unlike the Iroquois, Russians, or possibly Zulu.

On the other hand, if they trade with Russia now, then they might oppose us later on if Russia still exists...

Still, our Diplo strategies are dependant on a Chinese opposition. A French capture of Babylon could make France our Diplo Opponent.

 

[blackheart]

We should use our military to cordon off Babylon until our MPP with France is expired. This way we won't be dragged into an unnecessary war.

 

[DaveShack]

Still, our Diplo strategies are dependant on a Chinese opposition. A French capture of Babylon could make France our Diplo Opponent.

Well, a capture per se doesn't do the trick as it is the 2nd place in terms of power, but it's hard to imagine France taking down Babylon and not gaining a lot of power. Enough to eclipse China is not a given though.

We definitely don't want France as the 2nd place, because that would almost certainly lead to a perpetually deadlocked vote, short of going cloak and dagger, assuming of course we don't lose outright.

I'm leaning towards no ROP, to keep the pace of events slower. France will stay gracious as long as we trade techs and lux. Just don't leave any completely undefended cities if we can help it.

 

[Ashburnham]

Still, our Diplo strategies are dependant on a Chinese opposition. A French capture of Babylon could make France our Diplo Opponent.

That is an excellent point. Having France as our Diplo opponent would ruin our entire strategy, as well as making a loss much more possible. In light of this fact, I suggest we avoid an ROP with France.