GK2- The Training Day Experiment

[coletite]

Alerum, I have a question for you... oh, shoot! I forgot what it was...

Actually, unless I plan to warmonger pretty much continuously, I useually play in Republic and find that I can be at war with no difficulties unless it becomes a prolonged war.

However, my concern is that we have been building based on Monarchy, including using MPs. When we switch, we'll just need to make sure we don't go broke! These are only my fears, however, which is why I am here!

[edit] BTW- I downloaded that utility that keeps tabs on trading opportunity, happiness, etc. What a lifesaver! The fact that it beeps whenever a city is in danger of rioting is great. Do people usually save the game before ending the turn in order to make sure everything is in order or just rely on the info from the beginning of the turn?

 

[alerum68]

It would seem that the powers that be would have switch to Republic from Monarch. If we do this there are a few things we'll have to do during anarchy, or right after we switch.
The main thing is move all but border and coastal cities MPs out and towards the front line to be slaughtered. We don't want them anymore, and should only keep enough for basic defense and send most out as an attack force. We may need to disband some units even, but most should be able to be sent to the grindind mill. Of course, this will increase WW, but it will end the war quicker so it should balance out.

Does anoyne know how many cities we have over size 6? Not that many if I recall correctly. Support cost are going to be a fraction of Monarchy, so until we finish the war we can count on all cash going towards our military, which means our tech pace will be set to minimum... probably going to have to put an unhappy citizen to a sci-guy at one point, and run sci at 0, with luxury taking up most of our cash.

 

[TimBentley]

I downloaded that utility that keeps tabs on trading opportunity, happiness, etc. What a lifesaver! The fact that it beeps whenever a city is in danger of rioting is great. Do people usually save the game before ending the turn in order to make sure everything is in order or just rely on the info from the beginning of the turn?

[In the process of delurking from my previous status as a lurker in this thread]
I usually rely on the info from the beginning of the turn. However, if something significant has changed (e.g. government change, moving military police, trading technologies, perhaps even fighting in a representative government (might affect war weariness)), it might be wise to save and recheck everything using the utility or simply check stuff manually.
[Now returning to my previous status as a lurker]

 

[Mistfit]

To help Government discussion:

Edit:
This may be a n00b question but from the above graph I cant really see an advantage to Republic. Does corruption go down a bunch? If not I see no reason for it.

 

[GJ]

Edit:
This may be a n00b question but from the above graph I cant really see an advantage to Republic. Does corruption go down a bunch? If not I see no reason for it.

IIRC Republic has about the same net effect that it did in Civ 2: every square that was producing at least one commerce now produces one more. Either that, or it's a multiplicative effect.

According to the Civilopedia, where economic production is concerned, Monarchy is Despotism without the caps on production, and Republic is Monarchy with extra commerce.

I'll try to figure it out in the game I've got going right now.

 

[Mistfit]

Thanks GJ

My question concerns the size of the city. According to the graph in the CFC there is no difference in cost due to the size of a city.

Does anoyne know how many cities we have over size 6? Not that many if I recall correctly. Support cost are going to be a fraction of Monarchy, so until we finish the war we can count on all cash going towards our military, which means our tech pace will be set to minimum... probably going to have to put an unhappy citizen to a sci-guy at one point, and run sci at 0, with luxury taking up most of our cash.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

This is exactly why we want to go into each government. Remember this is a training game. While each government may not be ideal for our situation, we're going to explore all the possiblities.

Our goal with this game was not to make you into robots who play exactly like Bugsy and Gengis. The idea was to give each of you experience in all facets of the game. If you know and understand the pros and cons of each choice you can make, you will be a much better player, able to adapt your game to all sorts of situations that you may face.

This may not be the best time to switch over to republican government, but if you are going to see how a republic operates in both war and peace, we'll need to switch soon.

 

[Mistfit]

This may not be the best time to switch over to republican government

I did not realize there was a good time to be a Republican

 

[GJ]

(Edit: actually, let's go ahead and keep the political stuff elsewhere)

The reference to city size is a C3C rule. In C3C Republics, towns give 1 support, cities 3, and metros 4, and units past the support limit cost 2 gpt instead of just one. In vanilla, all units cost one per turn. (Democracy keeps this rule in both versions.)

 

[scoutsout]

Easy boys.... there's a place on this site for political jabs... this ain't it.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Remember that you when you pledge allegiance, it is "to the REPUBLIC for which it stands" Despite what you hear in the media everyday, we live in a republic, the USA is NOT a democracy. There is a huge difference.

 

[alerum68]

Something tells me that Scouts a good ole fashioned Republican. (Sorry, couldn't resist... no need to answer Scouts)

As for the unit support cost being different in C3C then Civ3... well, I didn't notice that before, but it doesn't change the fact that our military is very large for republic goverment.... (I think republic goverments having low unit support is crazy... look at the Romans!)

I just finished playing my sets of turns on the SGOTM, and without giving any spoilers away, I can say this... We were at war with someone, and were republic, and WW was KILLING us. They only had a few cities left, but all gold went to unit supports, and our research was cut down to nothing. Our cities weren't productive at all because we needed to hire so many specialist, as well as running lux at 40%.... as soon as the war was over, the goverment choice was great... we're able really start building at that point, but still had the problem of WW. It just seems like a bad idea to switch BEFORE a war, not AFTER a war. Again though, if we do this, make sure that all units are sent to the front line.... only keep units on coastal cities and at our 2 choke points.

Everyone else should be sent to do war with the Persians, and hopefully be killed off to just a few units. How long are we required to stay in Republic? Truthfully, I'd love to stay in it until we get ready to go to war on the other contient.... which we haven't even met yet. We need to make contact ASAP!!! In fact, I'm going to change at least 5 coastal cities to galleys for exploration... to bad we don't have Carvels yet.

 

[alerum68]

Remember that you when you pledge allegiance, it is "to the REPUBLIC for which it stands" Despite what you hear in the media everyday, we live in a republic, the USA is NOT a democracy. There is a huge difference.

Cross post there...

Very true... Democracy is what most of the greek city states used... and they were only able to use it because they were small in comparison to modern times. Democracy in it's true form is impossible... nothing would ever get done, and it's only 1 step higher then anarchy. And yes, I'm a firm believer in restoring the Pledge to it's original form.

An example would be this... Democracy is when everyone has a say on every choice to be made. A republic only votes on the elected officials, and those people make the choices. A bit simplistic, but it works.

 

[GJ]

I just finished playing my sets of turns on the SGOTM, and without giving any spoilers away, I can say this... We were at war with someone, and were republic, and WW was KILLING us. They only had a few cities left, but all gold went to unit supports, and our research was cut down to nothing. Our cities weren't productive at all because we needed to hire so many specialist, as well as running lux at 40%.... as soon as the war was over, the goverment choice was great... we're able really start building at that point, but still had the problem of WW. (...)

Or we could just win in a hurry

Is our goal necessarily to boot the Persians off of the continent entirely? We could also consider a war with more limited goals that would merely cripple Xerxes without eliminating him entirely. Presumably, such a campaign would take less time, so we wouldn't have as big a war weariness problem. Later if we need the land he's sitting on, we can swing back and finish knocking him out.

Granted, it's not a pretty solution, but it might keep us from being dragged into complete ineffectiveness.

Thoughts?

 

[alerum68]

Or we could just win in a hurry

Is our goal necessarily to boot the Persians off of the continent entirely? We could also consider a war with more limited goals that would merely cripple Xerxes without eliminating him entirely. Presumably, such a campaign would take less time, so we wouldn't have as big a war weariness problem. Later if we need the land he's sitting on, we can swing back and finish knocking him out.

Granted, it's not a pretty solution, but it might keep us from being dragged into complete ineffectiveness.

Thoughts?

Our goal is to complete and totaly destroy Persia and use his old lands to settle a second core by building our FP in... Damn, can't remember the city, but it was a good location... anyone remember? It's been a while since we talked about it, but that was and still is the goal. In fact, the goal for as long as I can remember is to make this contient ours completely. I'm just suprised we're not seeing any other civs from the other contient yet.

 

[GJ]

It has been a while since we talked about it (taking Persia - ed.), but that was and still is the goal.

(edit mine)

Alright, I'm clear. I'll admit to being too lazy to look back in the thread for it Hopefully we'll be able to manage the war without war weariness becoming a serious problem. I'm not too experienced in the field, so I'll be learning as I go. But hey, that's the point of being in the game, isn't it

 

[denyd]

A long term question for the players:

Japan is gone and the Zulus are fading fast. You've probably got close to enough troops to start (and maybe) take over the Persian lands.

Then what????

Whatever the answer is, what can you start doing now to make your plan easier to a achieve?

 

[Mistfit]

Alerum, here is the PER area centered on Susa. The tile S & SW of it are Mts. Leaving it on Susa and ringing at 5 I was able to get 3 of 4 cities included. However it will leave a tight ring 7 area, due to E and SE coast.

@alerum Susa was our prefered choice for FP

 

[alerum68]

A long term question for the players:

Japan is gone and the Zulus are fading fast. You've probably got close to enough troops to start (and maybe) take over the Persian lands.

Then what????

Whatever the answer is, what can you start doing now to make your plan easier to a achieve?

Well it depends on which victory condition we want to go for at this point... Space Race? Just stay where we are and build up towards it...

Conquest / Domination? We need to push out a few more settlers, (Not many I'd think), as well as make naval plans because we will need most of the other contient, or some of it I should say.

Culture? I think it's a bit to late to start on a Culture win.

Histograph? hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

I'm guessing this game is going for a Conquest / Domination win so in that case we should prepare for a naval landings.... ie - building galleys, and lots of them!

 

[Mistfit]

I assume differently than Alerum I think that Space Race is the way to go since it will take us up through the Modern Era (more learning experiances).

But I think we should do some naval build up because I want to try some of scouts nifty Marine tricks on the other continent.

Remember this is just speculation. The easiest condition right now would be domination