GK2- The Training Day Experiment

150 BC (3) (Con’t)

Sword/spear 1W of Osaka moves 1 S
Worker 1W of Osaka roads
Worker 1W of Osaka mines
If you had awakened the workers first and used both of them to road, the road would have completed and then you would have a full three tiles to move your sword and your spear. The sword could have been placed in a position to attack Ulundi with the others. That would have given you three units to attack with next turn.

130 BC (4)

MW 2S of Mauch waits (workers will finish road before turn is over)
2 workers 2N of Panama build road
10 workers 2N of Panama move 2S, 1SW
Why not use a third worker to complete the road? Remember group your workers in six slave turns per tile.
Settler 2N of Panama moves to Panama (Hmm, changed my mind) moves 1N
Where are you going?
Galley near Intombe moves 2SW, ends turns (waiting until next turn to attempt suicide)
By moving 1w,1sw,1s you would have discovered six new tiles.

I would have set Zim to starve.

110 BC (5)
Vet sword defeats Impi at Ulundi (How funny! I know there is a redlined Impi still in Ulundi, but it shows a worker as a defender!)
Not sure what’s going on there. Probably a Impi in the galley that sailed in there earlier.
Galley near Intombe move 2W, 1NW (cross your fingers&#8230
Not sure what the 8230 stuff is. Why not head straight west? I realize you were trying to stay on a sea tile, but I’m pretty sure your risk of sinking is the same on sea or ocean. (Of course I could be wrong, lurkers?)
Settler 1N of Tonawanda moves to Niagra Falls
Where’s this guy headed? If you just want to get him across the river, you wasted a movement point by crossing early.
MW 1SE of Salmanaca moves 4S
You’re allowing the rivers to kill your movement. Stay on one side as long as possible before crossing.
MW 1NE of Grand River moves 2SE, 3S
Yes, just like that! You only lost 1 tile of movement by using your roads on one side of the river that time. Try to max imize your movement with repect to the rivers before engineering.
Settler at Kahnawake waits for galley
You could have had the galley over there last turn
3 workers 1NW of Tyendaga clear forest (should have done this before roading)
Took the words out of my mouth.
Lux to 20% to avoid rioting in Grand River
We now have 10 MWs, as cities finish MWs I will switch them to Markets
Two good decisions here.

To Be Continued…..
 
coletite said:
Bugsy: I have no idea why I didn't use the road to move those swords. Probably a lack of attention to detail. That is my biggest impediment right now.

You're probably right, but don't take this wrong. You are making a lot of good decisions, you just need to look at some little things to help take your game to the next level.
 
Part of the problem with the settlers was that I didn't know where they were supposed to be heading. It looked like they were heading for Persia, but I figured there would be more space in need of settlers on the Zulu side.

Yep, it's the detail that kills me. Although I do try to maximize my movements. Not sure what happened with all the river moves...
 
Coletite, you make a good point, you guys should give each other a good passdown. You also need to read the previous players turn log right before you play. I'll need to go back and find the last turn log to see if there was a passdown left. :rolleyes: What do you think? 10 or 20 pages?
 
Something I've started doing lately (fat lot of good it's done me in a couple of demigod games) is to take the previous turnlog and copy it over to a text file, so I can alt-tab over to it if I find something "interesting" left by the previous player.

I know in this game we've been putting a lot of serious detail into the turnlogs... and I hate to put something else on the team, but...

If you want to help the 'next better player'... put some of your thinking into your turnlogs. "This build in town X is a pre-build for Y" or "this unit could be used to do that on the next turn".

In other SGs, I've been accused of putting too much into my turnlogs... though the "next better player" might think I'm half crazy (and he'd be 'half right') they can normally figure out what I was thinking when I did what I did... even if it was incorrect thinking...
 
Bugs: Misfit's turnlog is on page 62. You're right a passdown report would be helpful. I'll have to check to see if I put one on my turnlog... I do know that we have a GL in Kahnawaga.

[edit] Cross posted with Scout: a lesson I have learned while I was lurking this thread- there is no "correct" or "incorrect," rather, every action is judged on its position of strength.
 
@Team

On the pass down report you should check out some of the turn logs in the SGOTM2. I know my team always ended our reports with notes and/or comments for next player, stressing key points. Keep in mind these logs are not as detailed as the ones required here but the "After Play Report" is an important part of SG's.

As a sidenote, I've started keeping a QSC timeline even in my personal epic games. Helps me to stay focused and helps to remind me to do things later.
 
The pass down report is a wonderful idea. I think in this thread it should almost be done as a separate post. With 20 pages of informmation between turns it can get awfully difficult remembering what was going on in the last turn and if the ideas of the last player were in one spot that could be copied off and read while the new player is playing it should help confusion. To be honest with you I don't even remember where those settlers were going. I think one of them was headed to the penisula but the Persians beat me to it. The other one...It has been to long for me to remember. I will do better on the next one.
 
denyd said:
Alerum68: Excellent points. Another reason for building the FP close to the capital (in C3C the distant palace move dosen't work), is to complete it quickly. If you're waiting for a GL to rush your FP, why not build in close to the capital brick by brick (then you've got it) and move your capital to the location you'd planned for the FP. Normally the capital costs a lot more than the FP, so you'd be getting more shields from the GL.

But one thing you forgot, we used RCP around the capitol. Therefor putting up a FP in our core & moving the palace elsewhere would throw off our rings. Normally(ie not in RCP) that's a very good strategy though.

Bugsy- 25% in sea, 50% in ocean. (seafaring reduces these in C3C a bit)
 
Gengis Khan said:
But one thing you forgot, we used RCP around the capitol. Therefor putting up a FP in our core & moving the palace elsewhere would throw off our rings. Normally(ie not in RCP) that's a very good strategy though.

That is why I have seen people build their rings centerd on the 2nd city, not on the palace city. Makes it easier to build the FP and then you can use a GLeader to relocate your palace.
 
DJMGator13 said:
That is why I have seen people build their rings centerd on the 2nd city, not on the palace city. Makes it easier to build the FP and then you can use a GLeader to relocate your palace.

It didn't make much sense to do it that way with this game since we had such a centralized location. a way I see around this is to move the Palace before we build the FP, and in our old capitol we can build the FP... of course, this pretty much required a MGL, so why not just rush the FP in the new core instead? Anyway, the only real option for us, to reduce corruption is to take the Persians old land.

I'll make sure in my next game though I look at RCP location more closely, but I don't see it being much of an issue since I normally play C3C now.
 
IMHO this seems like an exploit to me. Because one of the big advantages in my mind here is that you could plunk your capital in the middle of another civ and have no worries of culture flip because it is your Cap. I know this is just a game and I should use every advantage I can, but that one dosen't really sit right with me. Especially when Firaxis makes a change so you can't do this in an updated version of the game. To me they also consider this an exploit.
 
The true exploit is a remote palace move, but I don't think we should talk about that one, especially since it doesn't work in C3C.
 
alerum68 said:
The true exploit is a remote palace move, but I don't think we should talk about that one, especially since it doesn't work in C3C.

Another exploit that RBciv disallows is the "Free Palace Jump" which is done by abandoning your capitol city and having the Palce automatically jump, with proper planning you can control where the palace jumps. Building a new palace brick by brick or rushing it from a GLeader is not considered an exploit.

I'm sure we will get into a more detailed discussion of this later in the game. Denyd has already provided some basics on this matter and there are several War Academy articles, about it and about the "Rank Corruption Exploit" which is what Alerum was referring to.

(Note to Trainers and Prof. Scout sounds like we might have a future exercise here.)
 
IBT

Galley was lost
Mine’s still alive. Wouldn’t you like to know what it finds groucho

90 BC (6)
Overall a solid turn. I didn’t get a leader like you did.

70 BC (7)
Reg sword 1W of Hlobane waits to attack last if needed
Vet sword defeats Impi at Hlobane
Vet sword loses to Impi at Hlobane without even hurting it
Elite sword defeats Impi at Hlobane
Elite sword defeats Impi at Hlobane
Elite sword defeats Archer at Hlobane
Hlobane is ours! No resistors Start temple
A good job attacking with your vets first, and then with your elites. Remember to preserve your elites as much as possible
Galley moves to 1NW of Kahnawage, drops off leader, waits for Settler
What’s the plan for the leader

IBT
Persians want to trade world maps…no dice.
Start Feudalism at 40% (19 turns)
Smart decisions here.


50 BC (8)
Not much of note.



30 BC (9)
Settlers in Satsuma stay put
You might be able to use the one of the settlers to settle the west coast just south of Kyoto without a threat.

10 BC (10)

Uneventful. Thanks for the detailed turn log. It makes it much easier to shadow. I realize we may not be able to do that much longer.

You gents need to decide what you’re going to do with the leader.

alerum68-
coletite – Just played
GJ - Up
qm1- MIA (at sea?)
Mistfit- On deck
SolarKnight
 
Warning to GJ:

warning.jpg
 
OK, I guess this means it's time for my first ever:

Got it.

I'll pore over the save a little more this afternoon and try to start playing it this evening.

I assume that my immediate goal is to finish wiping out the Zulu...? Any thoughts on what I should do with the leader?

(almost immediate edit: thanks for the tip on Kyoto, Mistfit, I'll keep my eye on things there)
 
Well, As far as the leader goes our choices are:

Rush an improvement or wonder
I don't have the game available to me at the moment so I can't say if there is a great wonder out there available. (could someone check?)

Start an Army:
A MW army for our up comming war with Persia would be great IMO.
 
I think we might be best off with an army, looking at the save.

The only wonder available to us is Hanging Gardens (three content citizens in its city, one content in all our other cities). I've always thought of HG as a "nice to have" wonder. Its net effect is a commercial one; since there are fewer unhappy people, we can channel some of our commercial output that was going into luxuries into either taxes or science.

Pros: More money for us now; easier to manage the empire if we fight in republic (war weariness).
Cons: As our cities continue to grow, one more content citizen might be less significant. Wonders eventually expire. Aside from its indirect benefits, it does not help us win any wars.

The alternative is to build an army and use it to attack the Persians. The army would give us a powerful unit to help storm cities; if it wins a fight, we can then build the Heroic Epic and get more leaders more quickly.

Pros: The army has a direct effect towards winning the war; Heroic Epic will help us get more leaders later.
Cons: If we are going for immediate leader farming, the army is a disadvantage, because in regular Civ it cannot blitz, so we only get one attack out of it per turn. This might be especially important in view of the fact that we are using skirmishing tactics (we can only skirmish once with an army, but with the three units it contains we can do it three times). Heroic Epic is only useful mathematically if we have ~50 more fights with elites after it is built (see SirPleb's war academy article), and it won't help us get more leaders in the meantime (since we have to spend resources building it somewhere).

--

I guess it boils down to how we are going to achieve victory. I know space race has been discussed a lot; are we actually going to get into a race, or can we pound a civ or two into submission on the other continent before building the spaceship? If it is the latter, then we don't have to worry as much about the downsides to heroic epic (have to build it and then fight a lot to see a tangible benefit) because we will be at war later anyway.

I think I would build an army here for three reasons:

1. It has a direct effect on our ability to farm leaders later and will give us an ace (if necessary) when taking cities from the Persians.
2. I don't think the Hanging Gardens provide a significant enough benefit to be particularly useful, especially if we are in Republic after the war. (When war weariness is not a factor, we will have much more commerce available to us anyway, which would duplicate the benefit of the Gardens).
3. Keeping the leader around and hoping we will get a better wonder out of it later doesn't help us with our goals in the meantime. And since the other continent is probably ahead of us in techs (England finished the Great Wall [Construction] in 250 BC, so they would have had to have had the tech long beforehand), we may not get the wonders we want.

--

Edit: Silly me! I didn't check a coastal city. Great Lighthouse is available. The Persians are building that though...I'm almost tempted to see how close they are and if we can capture it from them later.

I would STILL rather have an army though. Looking at our map, we haven't yet been successful enough with suicide galleys to show that the lighthouse really is necessary for our expeditions.

Here we are balancing the ability to explore more quickly and easily with the ability to boot the Persians off our continent quicker. I think if we kick off the Persians fast enough and stick to Republic, we can get to a point where the Lighthouse wouldn't be a huge help in a relatively short amount of time. The thing to keep in mind is that we haven't done enough exploring yet to justify a dire need for the lighthouse. Since that's the case, I would rather consolidate our own lands and continue our hit-and-miss exploring efforts than use the leader to build a wonder that still doesn't directly affect our ability to knock out the Persians.

That was kinda hurried, hope it made sense.
 
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