GK2- The Training Day Experiment

[Mistfit]

I see that making a city and immediately disbanding it leaves improved territory behind, is this ever a useful technique? If I had some extra settlers, it might be tempting to use a few to improve the territory of a jungle area and THEN settle a city on another jungle tile. Of course, I generally don't have extra settlers lying around. (I presume using settlers this way would not be considered an exploit, since you are paying a heavy price to achieve that land improvement. Are their rep or happiness issues for disbanding our own cities?)

This is the summary from Cracker on using Settlers for forestry. I do not believe he ever suggested using settlers to clear a patch of jungle then disband the city. He did however suggest that using the workers ability to create a colony on a spot could be used outside of your territory to bust through a forrest or jungle. Note that this only adds roads. No other improvements. But workers cost much less then settlers.

Settlers are an underutilized resource to help maximize the benefit of early forestry operations. A settler can found a town and complete the save at least 31 turns of worker effort every time the settler is carefully positioned to take out a square of jungle terrain. Settlers can extend irrigation and roads through barriers of forest and jungle and save 17 to 31 turns of effort.

Using settlers to clear jungle or forest should not be the primary driving force that leads you to select where a new town is founded, but when your general strategy leads you to an area that includes jungle and/or forest squares in the proposed boundaries of a town, you should settle near forests if possible and settle in the edge of jungles when necessary.

Carefully avoid placing towns on top of one of the only forest squares in a proposed town location unless all the other possible locations have less food production potential.

Nice job answering those question Alerum

 

[DJMGator13]

Nice job answering those question alerum. I've added a few things to a couple of them as well.

6) You shouldn't revolt in an SG if it's near the end of your turns. Another reason not to revolt is being in a war where active battles are around your cities. Or if you want to keep "whipping" citizens to remove them from the population of captured cities.

Well stated reasons not to revolt, but if there has already been team discussion on revolting to a new gov then it should be done ASAP even in an SG. The only time I would not do it is on your very last turn, because the next player can do it in the preturn portion of their round.

10) Any form of representative goverment has EXTREME WW. There is no way to combat it, which is glad we took out our enemies before Republic became avaliable to us. We can switch after we finish this war.

If you have enough luxuries and marketplaces in your cities, you can fight wars in Republic. There are some things you can do to reduce WW, but the main one is using your luxury slider and having as many luxuries as possible. Other key to fighting in Republic is to capture cities quickly, limit units ending turn in opponents terrirtoy, not to lose any of your own cities and to do this quickly. Another key is if you can get them to declare war on you, then you actually earn reverse WW. Our Jumpmaster1B SG we have been fighting wars in a republic without much WW problems. The only problem we have had to date is when we broke a peace deal for a short 3 turn campaign to finish off a civ and capture a needed Wonder.

11) Units forted in a city will get 2hps no matter what verison. It's just hard to spot because you have so many regular units. Really though, go ahead and test and you'll see it's true. It does take 1 FULL turn to heal a unit in a city with a barracks too.

As a sidenote Armies heal much faster in C3C than in CivIII & PTW.

 

[SolarKnight]

Playing my turns now.

SK

Edit: as i haven't been participating in this thread for a while, I am going to post up my analysis of the save and my plans for my turnset.

I will try to justify my thoughts as much as possible, but I will try not to make my plan too long.

 

[SolarKnight]

Here are my thoughts, enjoy

Mlitary Priorities:-

1) Finish off persia, I hate having more than one war at once.

2) Upgrade any and all spears to pikes or above as and when neccesary.

3) Upgrade Mounted warriors to knights as and when necessry.

4) Either disband or upgrade any/all Warriors/Swordsmen as they are rapidly becoming obsolete and may eventually become a burden.

5) Once all military matters are dealt with, we may need to consider more workers, we have 35 cities and 38 workers, that maybe enough for now, but when rails come in we will need to produce more to get them installed asap.

6) Obviously produce enough settlers to settle any gaps in our lands, or to replace razed enemy cities


Other than that it's a matter of deciding which nation to conquer next.
Cultural Priorities:-

There are 19 cities needing border expansion, according to the culture advisor (have culture of 0).

Of these, I would prioritise the expansion of borders in cities nearest rival teams, and those cities with bonus or strategic resources in their radii.

This will mean that the cities captured from persia will need temples asap (mainly those on the border) to guard against flips.

Recently founded cities near persia and zululand will be second priority for temples as they will be needed to bring in any of the unclaimed land and resources into our territory and, to prevent the persians or any other team founding cities in our lands.

Worker Priorities:-

Our core looks to be reasonably well developed, As with the cultural priorities, the areas that need the most effort are the areas that have been recentley conquered or settled.

I think that the focus should be on bringing our outlying cities up to speed, and spreading irrigation to the areas that are going to need it as fast as we can, so the cities grow and become more productive sooner.

Improvement Priorities:-

Short - Term (Early Middle Ages)

Looks like we need a major marketplace drive throughout the empire, we only have 4 for the entire empire, ok, the early game isn't the best time to focus on markets and gold, but we may need the additional funds to support future wars, and we will definately need the luxury boost to sustain future representtive governments.

We will also need libraries soon if we want to start researching ourselves, these should then be complemented by universities, to ensure our research capabilities are adaquete.

(If we decide to be agressive, then we may not need research as much, but sooner or later we may need the boost these improvements provide).

I would also recommend courthouses in the more productive cities in the outlying portions of our empire, to get unit production up to speed.

Mid - Term (Late Middle Age - Early Industrial Age)

We are going to want to get banks and factories in to boost our economy, ensure we can support our growing armies, and to produce them faster in the first place. Stock exchanges will be nice, though they can be decided on when the time comes.

Long - Term (Modern Age)

This will depend on victory condition, If Space race or UN then the economy should be brought up to speed ith stock exchanges and research labs, or if conquest then (if we get that far) the above plus manufacturing plants if we need them.

Wonder Priorities:-

Disclaimer: This section is only if the team decides we want or need them,

Middle Age:-

It may be too late for sun tzus/leonardos, so we may want to consider smiths, or one of copernicus observatory/ Newtons college, or just set us up for a ToE prebuild to cement our tech lead or regain it as the case may be.

I/A:- ToE would be useful if we need to gain a lead over the AI technology wise, otherwise Sufferage or hoovers, depending on our needs.

M/A:- UN may be an essential one to gain as even if we dont want to win by diplomatic victory, we will not want anyone else doing so either.

other than that, I would say the Manhattan project (variant rules, playing with all of the weapons ) or the apollo program, the rest are all completely optional depending on situation.

Plan for my turnset:

Deal persia as much damage as possible.

build temples in borer cities, and bring those cities up to speed as soon as possible.

connect up all newly aqcuirred cities.

upgrade any units as neccesary (if possible).

build up as much infrastructure as possible i productive cities.

(That may be too many objectives, but it gives me something to aim for, and the team something to think about.)

Any Comments/Questions/Additions?

Turnset will be up Tomorrow night to give time for feedback.

SK.

 

[Bede]

SK's priority list with commentary by Bede (comments in italics)

In general, well though out and comprehensive.

Mlitary Priorities:-

1) Finish off persia, I hate having more than one war at once.

2) Upgrade any and all spears to pikes or above as and when neccesary.

3) Upgrade Mounted warriors to knights as and when necessry.

4) Either disband or upgrade any/all Warriors/Swordsmen as they are rapidly becoming obsolete and may eventually become a burden.

Useful as MP's or garrisons for captured cities so don't be hasty


5) Once all military matters are dealt with, we may need to consider more workers, we have 35 cities and 38 workers, that maybe enough for now, but when rails come in we will need to produce more to get them installed asap.

Workers are important throughout the game and you can never have enough. Two per city is not too many and you are going to need more than that for the foreseeable future as there is a lot of ground that needs improvement or adjustment.

6) Obviously produce enough settlers to settle any gaps in our lands, or to replace razed enemy cities


Other than that it's a matter of deciding which nation to conquer next.
Cultural Priorities:-

There are 19 cities needing border expansion, according to the culture advisor (have culture of 0).

Of these, I would prioritise the expansion of borders in cities nearest rival teams, and those cities with bonus or strategic resources in their radii.

This will mean that the cities captured from persia will need temples asap (mainly those on the border) to guard against flips.

Temples add upkeep and make no contribution to the health of the nation. The same contentment effect can be accomplished with a single MP at the same cost. If you need border expansion, use a settler. They cost less than temples. In rare instances you may need a bordsder expansion for a coastal city, but be careful. If it is to pull in a whale in a corrupt town it is not, repeat not, worth it. If the town is not corrupt then a library has more lasting benefits.

On the flip thing, if you are still at war, let em flip, then take 'em back. They won't be in such a big hurry to do it again. If you are not at war, SHORT RUSH A LIBRARY, the culture benefit is greater and the expansion comes sooner and if the town produces any uncorrupted spt you get a research benefit when you need it.


Recently founded cities near persia and zululand will be second priority for temples as they will be needed to bring in any of the unclaimed land and resources into our territory and, to prevent the persians or any other team founding cities in our lands.

As above, use settlers to consolidate borders. Cultural borders can be poached, first ring tiles cannot.

Worker Priorities:-

Our core looks to be reasonably well developed, As with the cultural priorities, the areas that need the most effort are the areas that have been recentley conquered or settled.

Nope. You have just enjoyed a Golden Age which seriously distorts out put from both improved and unimproved terrain. Also IIRC you have changed governments since the original improvements were made, and the city's purposes may have changed. Now is the ime to go back into the core and really trim the terrain. The outlying areas need connecting roads and irrigation to grow the population, and forests chopped to speed buildings. Mining and hill and mountain development can wait for rails as the marginal improvement in output is most often lost to waste and corruption.

I think that the focus should be on bringing our outlying cities up to speed, and spreading irrigation to the areas that are going to need it as fast as we can, so the cities grow and become more productive sooner.

Concur on irrigation. If it's flat, water it.

Improvement Priorities:-

Short - Term (Early Middle Ages)

Looks like we need a major marketplace drive throughout the empire, we only have 4 for the entire empire, ok, the early game isn't the best time to focus on markets and gold, but we may need the additional funds to support future wars, and we will definately need the luxury boost to sustain future representtive governments.

Concur. Don't forget courthouses in second and third ring cities.

We will also need libraries soon if we want to start researching ourselves, these should then be complemented by universities, to ensure our research capabilities are adaquete.

Again concur. Any town that produces more than four uncorrupted gold is a candidate for a library. There is sort of a chicken and egg conundrum here, however: marketplace or library first? It's pretty much a you pick 'em, as the income boost from a market indirectly applies to the science budget.

(If we decide to be agressive, then we may not need research as much, but sooner or later we may need the boost these improvements provide).

If the buildings are there you have far more flexibility in planning your research and timing the resulting improvements (wonders, or expensive buildings). Without them you have only the bigger hammer (money or might).

I would also recommend courthouses in the more productive cities in the outlying portions of our empire, to get unit production up to speed.

Mid - Term (Late Middle Age - Early Industrial Age)

We are going to want to get banks and factories in to boost our economy, ensure we can support our growing armies, and to produce them faster in the first place. Stock exchanges will be nice, though they can be decided on when the time comes.

Concur. Anytime you can build a "multiplier" building, do it. There are five critical multipliers in every game: markets, libraries, banks, universities, factories. Stock exchanges and research labs usually come later, when the outcome is no longer in doubt. Think of these building as your infrastructure artillery; just as bombardment makes your military more efficient, these building have the same effect on the economy.

Long - Term (Modern Age)

This will depend on victory condition, If Space race or UN then the economy should be brought up to speed ith stock exchanges and research labs, or if conquest then (if we get that far) the above plus manufacturing plants if we need them.

Wonder Priorities:-

Disclaimer: This section is only if the team decides we want or need them,

Middle Age:-

It may be too late for sun tzus/leonardos, so we may want to consider smiths, or one of copernicus observatory/ Newtons college, or just set us up for a ToE prebuild to cement our tech lead or regain it as the case may be.


I/A:- ToE would be useful if we need to gain a lead over the AI technology wise, otherwise Sufferage or hoovers, depending on our needs.

M/A:- UN may be an essential one to gain as even if we dont want to win by diplomatic victory, we will not want anyone else doing so either.

other than that, I would say the Manhattan project (variant rules, playing with all of the weapons ) or the apollo program, the rest are all completely optional depending on situation.

Plan for my turnset:

Deal persia as much damage as possible.

build temples in border cities, and bring those cities up to speed as soon as possible.


connect up all newly aqcuirred cities.

upgrade any units as neccesary (if possible).

build up as much infrastructure as possible i productive cities.

(That may be too many objectives, but it gives me something to aim for, and the team something to think about.)

Any Comments/Questions/Additions?

Turnset will be up Tomorrow night to give time for feedback.

SK.


overall.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I have one request. Please research Republic so that we can examine that government. That was one of our goals in the game, to go into every government.

 

[SolarKnight]

Thanks for the comments Bede and Bugsy, I will research republic during my turnset as soon as chivalry comes in.

Thanks for clarifying the situation regarding temples bede, I haven't played civ 2 seriously in years but I still have old habits from it, i really need to drop them, its probably why i haven't beat emporer yet.

thanks

 

[Mistfit]

Nice plans SK - Also nice write up Bede. I look forward to this getting going again

I would set up two to three towns that have high food potential and small shield potential to become worker pumps. These cities would be used to create workers to join into the cities in our two cores (thanks to Northern Pike for this technique, SGOTM2 Team Scout) With this technique cities around the forbidden palace and the palace can be raised to their full population potential quite quickly.

Bede, Gator, Denyd, Bugsy & any other Lurking Master: what do you think of this technique? I know that Scout has seen this in action so his opinion may be biased. Do you guys consider this an exploit? Do you think it is worth the hassle?

 

[SolarKnight]

I would personally say that worker pumps are no more exploitave than settler factories, though it is unlikely that the workers should be merged into cities straight away, as there is still a fair amount of work to do in improving the land, workers are the most powerful unit in our arsenal and we need as many as we can get.

just my thoughts

SK.

 

[DJMGator13]

We did it in our SGOTM2, but only to increase the pop of the city building the FP. Another thing to keep in mind is unless you have improved the land you may only have enough food to raise the city pop by 1 or 2.

Here are 2 banded exploits using workers that are in the GOTM rules.

Pop-rushing
In despotism and communism it is possible to use cities purely for unit rush building. Workers can be added to such a city and then the city can then use them to rush build units. This is disallowed, so do not create these kind of cities. Pop rushing one or two regular citizens to finish a building or to build a unit is within the rules and the spirit of the game. What is against the rules is joining workers to cities for the purpose of pop rushing.

Worker dogpile
Let all your workers join a city with a hospital and continue to build workers and let them join that city. There's no size limit so your city will become huge and you loose only one population per turn. All the workers become specialists and add to your score.

 

[JackRules]

SC (and others),

You might want to read Bamspeedy's article "AI Attitude Exposed" and the related thread in the War Accademy. It may be somewhat outdated but it explains a great deal about the effects your actions have on the other Civs in the game. Vey comprehensive and very enlightening.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_attitude.shtml

JackRules

 

[alerum68]

We did it in our SGOTM2, but only to increase the pop of the city building the FP. Another thing to keep in mind is unless you have improved the land you may only have enough food to raise the city pop by 1 or 2.

Here are 2 banded exploits using workers that are in the GOTM rules.

Pop-rushing
In despotism and communism it is possible to use cities purely for unit rush building. Workers can be added to such a city and then the city can then use them to rush build units. This is disallowed, so do not create these kind of cities. Pop rushing one or two regular citizens to finish a building or to build a unit is within the rules and the spirit of the game. What is against the rules is joining workers to cities for the purpose of pop rushing.

Worker dogpile
Let all your workers join a city with a hospital and continue to build workers and let them join that city. There's no size limit so your city will become huge and you loose only one population per turn. All the workers become specialists and add to your score.

I disaggree with how valid the first one of those "exploits" are. The dogpile one actually was fixed in a version upgrade... I believe there's a limit of 60 or there about. That rule is for an older version of the game, and doesn't work as well.

The first one... why is that an exploit? It's very realisitc. You're an ancient age goverment, and you just conquoured a town. You want a temple to worship your greatness, and you want it now! You have several of your workers near by, and you tell them to join that town and finish that temple NOW! even if it cost you your life.... gotta break a few eggs, and all that.

SK: Good direction with your turns.

 

[scoutsout]

I apologize for the length of this post. Most of these are follow on comments from prior discussion, but please, everbody read this first part:

A compliment, and an important point:​

@Alerum: I noted you did some heads-up tile-swapping between some cities during your turns. I think this is important enough that if there is anybody (playing or lurking) who does not understand tile-swapping, please post and I'll do a series of screencaps in the same manner as the "micromanagement" series that I posted many moons ago.

Now, some ramblings:​

SolarKnight:
Looks like we need a major marketplace drive throughout the empire

Mille Grazie, SK.

On Reputation and Attitude hits:​

SwedishChef:
I saw a post that said, “If our unit is in their territory when we declare war it will hurt our reputation,” I didn’t know that. How does this work? (Explanation or pointer to article would be great...)

Alerum:
3) The AI considers it a sneak attack. It's a very small rep hit, nothing like a ROP attack, but it does blemish our rep. Right now I think we're pretty spotless.

Correction: If you have troops in AI territory and get the "Move or Declare" message IBT, and then declare war, it is exactly the same thing as a RoP abuse Reputation hit. I learned this the hard way in GOTM30. I landed a bunch of Cav next to England's last city, got the "move or declare" IBT, declared war, finished England. Later on, I was in a MA v. somebody with "Tokugawa"... I was moving a large naval task force through Tokugawan territorial waters towards the enemy civ. I got the "Move or Declare" message from Tokugawa (my ally) proposed a RoP, and was told I could not get one because I had attacked England under a similar agreeement. I had never signed a RoP with England.

In Bugs1 I was planning to take the last remaining Aztec city... I don't recall if this was in the log or not, but on the turn I declared I fumbled a pike into Aztec territory, declared war, and then took the city that turn with some Knights. I recall PMing Bede with this...as I was concerned. As it turns out, we were able to maintain several RoPs throughout the game, and it apparently didn't hurt us.

Hypothesis: having troops in enemy territory IBT before the outbreak of hostilities makes a difference.

For discussion of gifts and AI Attitude, see: AI Attitude Exposed by Bamspeedy.

Alerum:
The rep hit with an ally for killing a civ confuses me too. I'm not sure what's going on with that. No rep hit for destroying a civ, unless with an allience, that I know of.

Rep hits for killing civs: Be careful you don't confuse Attitude with Reputation. You can have a spotless reputation, but AI that are furious with you. Some pointers:

1) If you sack (raze) AI cities with wonders, all (or most) AI will be "furious" with you, even if you've been warfighting "honorably". (See Bede02 :shakehead )

2) You can have an AI civ that is "gracious" towards you, but will not grant you a MA or RoP because your rep is tarnished. (See discussion above) or an ally that is furious with you (below).

If you are at war with any civ, it will generally affect the attitude of the other AI civs. Their attitude will either be better (allies) or worse (allied against you or neutral). If you and another AI civ are at war with a third, you will gain attitude points by killing enemy units, even if you are not in a Military Alliance. Check out Ghandi's attitude in Team Scout's SGOTM2 effort. Ghandi was at war with Russia, and he got gracious in a hurry when we hammered Russia. There was no MA there, just a mutual enemy.

A related note: In a personal epic game I once played, the Zulu were between me and Rome. Rome was at war with Zulu, and I wanted the Zulu lands. I had a gpt deal for a lux with Rome, but Zulu roads were part of my trade network. The deal was Rome's gpt for my Dyes. The deal had "expired" but was still active. As an experiment, I played this 2 ways to act as hammer against Rome's anvil:

1) Dialed up Caesar and signed a MA v. Shaka. I got the Alliance, but Caesar was now "furious" with me for breaking the dyes deal.

2) Dialed up Casear, took the dyes off the table, and signed the MA v. Shaka. Caesar was now a polite ally, and my reputation was preserved.

More assorted ramblings:​

On buying workers and RBCiv rules:

The 'rule' is not against buying workers off the AI, but overbuying AI workers. Also note that workers are much cheaper in than in . Here's the link to Realms Beyond Rules and intents. This is well worth reading. Understanding the rationale behind these rules is more important than understanding the rules themselves.

Some notes on revolting:

Unless playing as a religious civ, I never revolt during a Golden Age. Sometimes, revolting to Republic can bring on a recession and I may delay that, especially if playing Conquests and I've got a large military and no infrastructure. The cost of an overbuilt army is potentially painful in C3C Republic...

Some notes on jungle clearing:

I don't use settlers to clear jungle. I can't remember if it was one of Cracker's articles or Sir Pleb's (maybe Bamspeedy), but I remember reading a War Academy article in which the author recommended settling in the edge of jungles (clearing a jungle tile while leaving some useful tiles in the city's radius). I rarely do this. I site jungle cities based on what they'll look like after the jungle is cleared, worker turns be danged.

Alerum
Any form of representative goverment has EXTREME WW.

I beg to differ. I find Republic quite durable for all but the most extreme warmongering. Keys to fighting under Republic: fight decisively, and avoid protracted wars of attrition. As a general rule you can keep fighting under Republic if you are winning, but you do need to take a few breaks from warmongering. For more info, seeHow Does War Weariness Work? by Oystein in the War Academy.

Alerum
"wooden Spoon" is an award <snip>
...it's for the lowest "Jason" score, regardless of variant. So my virtual "I love me wall" looks like this:

 

[Bede]

An amplification on scout's comments:

...I find Republic quite durable for all but the most extreme warmongering. Keys to fighting under Republic: fight decisively, and avoid protracted wars of attrition. As a general rule you can keep fighting under Republic if you are winning, but you do need to take a few breaks from warmongering. For more info, seeHow Does War Weariness Work? by Oystein in the War Academy.

War weariness and unit upkeep costs play off against each other in the representative governments even when you have well developed cities at pop6 or above. As your military grows the military support consumes more of your budget so you find it harder to increase entertainment taxes and maintain research spending and pay maintenance on buildings.

War weariness is more than manageable in the representative governments if you meet three conditions: 1)limited war with single opponents to capture resources followed by defensive war, i.e. you never leave your territory; 2) you keep winning with minimal casualties; 3) your trade reputation is spotless.

All of the above means that Conquest victories take longer, you can complete Domination in a reasonable time frame.

GK1 provides a good example of a Monarch 5CC Non-oscillating War (NOW) game fought as a Republic from the time the government became available. Five cities with more than adequate defense meant one was never lost to an enemy (one exception early but we don't talk about that one). Lots of artillery were used so that when battles were fought they were decisive with mimimal casualties. And, the opponents kept changing as each was destroyed. Finally, our trading reputation was more than golden, so we could trade for whatever we needed (including per turn goods for a cash infusion) practically to the last battle.

 

[scoutsout]

The first one... why is that an exploit? It's very realisitc. You're an ancient age goverment, and you just conquoured a town. You want a temple to worship your greatness, and you want it now! You have several of your workers near by, and you tell them to join that town and finish that temple NOW! even if it cost you your life.... gotta break a few eggs, and all that.

The circumstance you describe does lie in a bit of a gray area Alerum. You're describing a "one-off" join/whip scenario. Odds are you would have to let the city accumulate at least some shields (even as a religious civ) and what you describe could be accomplished without the worker-joining.

The "exploitative" worker whip-fest comes in with corrupt cities and repeated worker-joining for the sole purpose of whipping. Let's say you've got one or two good floodplain city worker-pumps, and an outlying city with a barracks. The exploit would involve joining 2 workers to that city and whipping a spear or archer, then "rinsing and repeating". It is (or was) possible to get a fearsome archer rush going using these techniques in corrupt outlying cities (coupled with units produced in productive cities).

If you note in the SGOTM and similar rules, you are not to whip to the point that a city cannot sustain at least one content citizen. That one way this rule can be enforced. A whipped worker-dogpile town will only sustain one citizen - an entertainer.

If you are doing the following, you're engaging in an exploit:

1) If you are pumping workers from one city for the sole purpose of joining and whipping elsewhere.

2) If the city is only being managed as a whipping post for repeated whipping of units...

I view your scenario as non-exploitative, but on the slippery slope. If I had a size 2 city that was about to come under attack, and a couple of workers that were going to have to retreat out of harm's way, I see nothing wrong with joining a worker and whipping a spear, IF:

1) The workers were actually doing (or had done) work prior to the join

2) This is an isolated join/whip for a specific, urgent need; not part of a continuous cycle.

Please note that this is my opinion only, and may or may not comply with anybody's rules. Some people get downright dogmatic when it comes to rules, and others even apply 'rules' that do not have any basis in "Rules". If playing a competitive/comparative game, err on the side of caution. If playing a SG, consult with the leader/host. If playing your own personal game, "do what you will".

I find winning without exploits more satisfying, though I have my own (different) opinions on what is and isn't an exploit.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

My personal rule of thumb is: "If it feels like an exploit, it is an exploit." Yes, there are all sorts of ways to win in this game. But, if you win by using an exploit, to me it is like cheating at solitare.

When I played the Rise of Rome scenario in RBC3 or 4 with Charis, he had a rule that we couldn't take a worker that was built in a size 6 or below (town) and join it to a size seven or above (city). The idea was that in order to grow your population in a twon it didn't take as much food as it did to grow your population in a city. We could take a worker from one town to another or one city to another but not cross polinate.

 

[SolarKnight]

What tech path would everyone recommend? Path up to navigation and democracy to pass through both representative governments, or towards MT and cavalry.

 

[scoutsout]

My thoughts: "Take the High Road".

Research peaceful techs, go for Theology-Education. We'll talk then if we want to bee-line for Democracy or go for Navigation (to allow for overseas trading).

You guys already know the Monarchy-Military Tradition beat-'em-up game. Some of you guys might think you don't, but one-dimensional Knight/Cavalry tactics are no different from the tactics you guys have already used with your Mounted Warriors.

...not that we've fought our last Cavalry campaign. I think a little early industrial era Infantry/Artillery/Cavalry slugfest is in order...just so you guys get a feel for that kind of combat.

That's my $0.02. Bugs? Bede?

 

[SolarKnight]

Pre - Turn thoughts:

I summed up most of this in my plan, so ill be brief.

Tech situation:

3 turns from chivalry, will pursue republic next, as

requested by bugsy. then will choose tech

depending on group input andsituation.

Diplomatic Situation:

still at war with persia, need to finish this as soon as

possible.

at peace with all other teams.

Military Situation:

Plenty of mounties in the persian core, may need to

upgrade defences soon, will keep warriors and

swords around for mp duties (thanks bede).

Turn 1 AD 330:

Susa: Worker -> Pike.
Tokyo: Court -> Market.
Hlobane: Temple -> Pike (can be used to short rush

market if team wishes)

3 resistors vanish in tarsus, hire clown to help with

resistance.

Maunch Chunk: Courthouse -> Market.
Gourdium: Worker -> Market.
Kahnawake: Court ->Market.
Panama: Barracks -> Worker.

Persians start sun tzus.

Gandasetaigon founded 330AD

I lose one elite mountie and two vets before i realise

we need catapultts to harm persepolis, its too big,

the 50% defence bonus will be a pain in the ass.

Arbella is ours with 4 resistors and two slaves.

Turn 2 AD 340:

Akwesasne: Market -> Library.
Centralia: Court -> Market.

Pasargadae is ours with 4 resistors, and 2 slaves.

Turn 3 AD 350:

Chivalry comes in, set to republic.

Allegheny: Market -> Library.
Tonawanda: Market -> Library.
Tarsus: Worker -> Pike.
Tyendenaga: Harbour -> Market.
Caughnawaga: Market -> Library

palace expands.

Turn 4 AD 360:

Zimbabwe: Temple -> court.
Satsuma: worker -> Market.

Antioch captured and persian city near old zulu land

destroyed.

will have to leave it there for tonight, i have to go be

by my fiancees side, she is going to hospital

tomorrow.

Sorry guys. will finish tomorrow.

 

[alerum68]

sorry to hear about your fiancee SK.

Looks like good turns... one thing I'd do differently is change the entertainers over to taxman when possible. Entertainers aren't needed unless you have a really unhappy town. taxman produce 1 gpt