Gengis Khan
Deity
Because he's in the Japanese territory, and would be when war was declared.
GK2- The Training Day Experiment
- Thread starter Gengis Khan
- Start date
denyd
Emperor
The rep hit comes from having a unit in the AI territory when you declare war on that AI. It's treated like a sneak attack and will damage your rep to the rest of the AI's in contact with victim.
coletite
Warlord
I did not know that! Thanks a lot!
denyd
Emperor
DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
@scout - I had a flashback to one of your earlier posts when I saw your troop layout.
Where are our MW (stick horses are easy to draw).
With stick swordman
and paper cutout defenders who is leading our forces? David Copperfield?
Where are our MW (stick horses are easy to draw).
With stick swordman
and paper cutout defenders who is leading our forces? David Copperfield? Q1:
some math here (well, I cheat, I havent researched math yet, but as scout said it, "we have writing", and Calculator and CivIII manual
Statistics :
The strongest defense Japan has is Regular Spearman
I take the bonus defense is 100% (wall + city on hill) and hope it is right
Units Defenders:
Warrior : 1/2/1
Spearman : 1/4/1
Swordman : 3/4/1
Our best attacking unit Vet Swordsman : 3/2/1.
There are 6 cities on monarch level (I assume) at most guarded by 2 units so total defender 12 units. assuming with RNG
To make sure we got them quite fast we need at least 15-18 units, at least 4 swordsman attacking a cities, and then rest to heal the injured (2 would stay on the city as MP), 11+ other swordsmen go to another city.
We have two barracks already, and it can produce 2 vet warriors each 2 turns. We have 4 vet warriors. At least we need 12 turns.
Q2: Agree with Alerum and Scout. NE with fish and whales (Seafood everyone)
Q3: SW of Incense
Q4: I dont see any contra, grab the lands even it would be unproductive.
1. the jungle may produce a lot of citizen after we cut the trees and mine them.
2. We monopoly dyes.
3. Even its unproductive, the worst I could see, they would still producing 1 warrior each 10 turns for 1 productive shield or 1 worker each 20 turns.
Q5:Scout South : Hold the choke point as long as possible
Scout on Japan :Before the war : disband them to avoid rep hit if he is still on Japan. But I prefer we use him and take him on the galley with a settler (even suicide galley).
Q6: I will search Philo at the lowest min. rate. I will sell poly and take the gold from him for upgrading or alliance with Zulu. Xman wont trade to anyone anyway, moreover, xman has more money than 365, it means that is the best deal we could get for philo.
Q7: I am expecting bot Zulu and Xerxes would research map making since they are expantionist and commercial (both want the Light House wonders), and we may trade with them with monarchy (we need GLH too)
I doubt after that we could get any tech from Zulu, by that time we would at war with Zulu. From persia we may get 2 more techs, but since he is alone, his research will be slow as well.
@DJMGator : we dont use MW, we will use them for the next war.
some math here (well, I cheat, I havent researched math yet, but as scout said it, "we have writing", and Calculator and CivIII manual
Statistics :
The strongest defense Japan has is Regular Spearman
I take the bonus defense is 100% (wall + city on hill) and hope it is right
Units Defenders:
Warrior : 1/2/1
Spearman : 1/4/1
Swordman : 3/4/1
Our best attacking unit Vet Swordsman : 3/2/1.
There are 6 cities on monarch level (I assume) at most guarded by 2 units so total defender 12 units. assuming with RNG
To make sure we got them quite fast we need at least 15-18 units, at least 4 swordsman attacking a cities, and then rest to heal the injured (2 would stay on the city as MP), 11+ other swordsmen go to another city.
We have two barracks already, and it can produce 2 vet warriors each 2 turns. We have 4 vet warriors. At least we need 12 turns.
Q2: Agree with Alerum and Scout. NE with fish and whales (Seafood everyone
)Q3: SW of Incense
Q4: I dont see any contra, grab the lands even it would be unproductive.
1. the jungle may produce a lot of citizen after we cut the trees and mine them.
2. We monopoly dyes.
3. Even its unproductive, the worst I could see, they would still producing 1 warrior each 10 turns for 1 productive shield or 1 worker each 20 turns.
Q5:Scout South : Hold the choke point as long as possible
Scout on Japan :Before the war : disband them to avoid rep hit if he is still on Japan. But I prefer we use him and take him on the galley with a settler (even suicide galley).
Q6: I will search Philo at the lowest min. rate. I will sell poly and take the gold from him for upgrading or alliance with Zulu. Xman wont trade to anyone anyway, moreover, xman has more money than 365, it means that is the best deal we could get for philo.
Q7: I am expecting bot Zulu and Xerxes would research map making since they are expantionist and commercial (both want the Light House wonders), and we may trade with them with monarchy (we need GLH too
)I doubt after that we could get any tech from Zulu, by that time we would at war with Zulu. From persia we may get 2 more techs, but since he is alone, his research will be slow as well.
@DJMGator : we dont use MW, we will use them for the next war.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83599
Is a link to the thread on the inner workings of the military advisor - would give you a better idea of what you are facing, particularly if you watch the change as you upgrade your swords. My rough calculations give Japan as having a maximum of 18 regular spearmen or 13 veterans, (this is worse case as other units would be easier to defeat).
Is a link to the thread on the inner workings of the military advisor - would give you a better idea of what you are facing, particularly if you watch the change as you upgrade your swords. My rough calculations give Japan as having a maximum of 18 regular spearmen or 13 veterans, (this is worse case as other units would be easier to defeat).
Gengis Khan
Deity
Hmm, still no Shogun or Solar and they're up next........ you still out there guys?
shoguntaka
Warlord
Ooooh! I'm up! Sorry about my quietness, I'm in the Final Exam week, but I'll play it tonight.
1 question: Is it worth upgrading the regular swordman? (I don't think so, they're best left acting as MP).
1 question: Is it worth upgrading the regular swordman? (I don't think so, they're best left acting as MP).
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@shogun:if you upgrade him, don't use him as an MP. A regular sword is still pretty dangerous, especially against a redlined spear... I don't think it would hurt to upgrade some regular warriors that aren't needed for MP duty. Just lead with the vets...
Gengis Khan
Deity
It's all good, I definatly understand exams.
Do me a favor & take a stab at those questions before you play. Don't worry, on that quiz you can't fail & the curve is really really low.
Do me a favor & take a stab at those questions before you play. Don't worry, on that quiz you can't fail & the curve is really really low.
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
hehehehe... grading on the curve... a low curve... saying something about rest of the class Gangy?
And I think Shougun meant to keep them as regular warriors for MP duty.
And I think Shougun meant to keep them as regular warriors for MP duty.
shoguntaka
Warlord
Gengis, I already started playing before you asked me to answer these questions, sorry 
[0]:
Control Freak pointed out that Niagara Falls could be 3-turns worker factory if it grows to size 6. So I switched its production to warrior for MP purpose.
Mauch Chunk switched to wall from worker, it's growing slowly, and we don't know when/if the Persians might attack us :O
Instead of over-expanding and building more corrupted cities, we need to connect our cities together, so I switched settler at Salamanca to worker. It can be 2-turns worker factory. Grand Rivers can do the settler-building.
I decided we should keep researching on Monarchy, since we're religious and as soon we get it, we can switched to it and enjoy the full benefit of FP surrounded by mined hills.
[IBT]:
The Japanese is trying to sneak a settler through us.
A Persian warrior is escorting a settler.
[1]:
Niagra Falls: warrior -> temple, it'll be a large city soon.
Allegheny: warrior -> warrior
Oil Springs: warrior -> spearmen (it's producing at 3spt)
St. Regis: warrior -> warrior
Moved a warrior to block the sneaking settler/warrior pair.
[IBT]:
Japanese settler trying to find a hole to get in.
[2]
Salamanca: worker -> worker
Settled Tyendenaga at #1, near the whale
Japanse warrior (inside our land) is blocking the other settler's route to site number 2, so I skipped its turn, waiting for the warrior to move out.
[IBT]:
Trespassing Japanese warrior moved north, still blocking the route...
[3]
Allengheny: warrior -> yet another veteran warrior (very productive city, indeed)
I decided to change the direction of the waiting settler to site number 5 (Scoutsout's dotmap).
[IBT]:
Japanese settler gave up and moved west, they completed Oracle at Kyoto and they started building the Colossus.
Zulu started building the Pyramids.
Saw a barbarian horseman near Mauch Chunk
[4]:
Salamanca: worker -> worker
[5]:
Allengheny: warrior -> warrior
Cattaragus: Temple -> wall (it has over 50% corruption, bah!)
[IBT]
Barbarian horseman attacked Mauch Chunk and lost
[6]:
Salamanca: worker -> barracks (I think we have enough worker for now, plus Niagara Falls will be 3-turns worker-factory in the near future).
Grand Rivers: settler -> settler
Finally hooked up the horse using 3 workers, we can now build the Mounted Warior... But, however, Scoutsout and others doesn't want early GA, so...
Settled Khanawake (nifty name) at spot number 5.
You predicted it correctly, The Persians now knows Map-Mapking, and still haven't contacted Japan or Zululand. I tried to see how much they value their Map-Making:
Their Map-making for our Polythesis + 60 gold sum.
But I didn't trade for it.
[7]:
Allengheny: warrior -> spearmen (thanks for Allengheny productive ability, we're growing militaristically stronger than other nations! Now, we need more spearmen to protect our future swordmen...)
I decided it's time to hook up the Iron, so I sent three workers to road the mountain, and it'll take 3 turns to complete it.
Settled Caughnawaga at site number 4.
[8]:
Oil Springs: spearmen -> warrior
Ordering workers around.
[9]:
Nothing much.
[10]:
Niagra Falls: temple -> wealth (give it one more turn to grow, and then you can start buiding worker).
Oil Springs: warrior -> warrior (probably the last warrior it'll produce).
Both Japan and Zulu knows know Map-Making, and the Persians still do not know Polythesis. Good trading here for next player (SolarKnight, I think). Monarchy discovery is due in 2 turns as well.
We'll have both the dye and iron hooked within two turns, and we have excessive gold to pay for the upgrade for the warriors, and I suppose we can invade Japan very soon.
Let's Invade Japan!
[0]:
Control Freak pointed out that Niagara Falls could be 3-turns worker factory if it grows to size 6. So I switched its production to warrior for MP purpose.
Mauch Chunk switched to wall from worker, it's growing slowly, and we don't know when/if the Persians might attack us :O
Instead of over-expanding and building more corrupted cities, we need to connect our cities together, so I switched settler at Salamanca to worker. It can be 2-turns worker factory. Grand Rivers can do the settler-building.
I decided we should keep researching on Monarchy, since we're religious and as soon we get it, we can switched to it and enjoy the full benefit of FP surrounded by mined hills.
[IBT]:
The Japanese is trying to sneak a settler through us.
A Persian warrior is escorting a settler.
[1]:
Niagra Falls: warrior -> temple, it'll be a large city soon.
Allegheny: warrior -> warrior
Oil Springs: warrior -> spearmen (it's producing at 3spt)
St. Regis: warrior -> warrior
Moved a warrior to block the sneaking settler/warrior pair.
[IBT]:
Japanese settler trying to find a hole to get in.
[2]
Salamanca: worker -> worker
Settled Tyendenaga at #1, near the whale
Japanse warrior (inside our land) is blocking the other settler's route to site number 2, so I skipped its turn, waiting for the warrior to move out.
[IBT]:
Trespassing Japanese warrior moved north, still blocking the route...
[3]
Allengheny: warrior -> yet another veteran warrior (very productive city, indeed)
I decided to change the direction of the waiting settler to site number 5 (Scoutsout's dotmap).
[IBT]:
Japanese settler gave up and moved west, they completed Oracle at Kyoto and they started building the Colossus.
Zulu started building the Pyramids.
Saw a barbarian horseman near Mauch Chunk
[4]:
Salamanca: worker -> worker
[5]:
Allengheny: warrior -> warrior
Cattaragus: Temple -> wall (it has over 50% corruption, bah!)
[IBT]
Barbarian horseman attacked Mauch Chunk and lost
[6]:
Salamanca: worker -> barracks (I think we have enough worker for now, plus Niagara Falls will be 3-turns worker-factory in the near future).
Grand Rivers: settler -> settler
Finally hooked up the horse using 3 workers, we can now build the Mounted Warior... But, however, Scoutsout and others doesn't want early GA, so...
Settled Khanawake (nifty name) at spot number 5.
You predicted it correctly, The Persians now knows Map-Mapking, and still haven't contacted Japan or Zululand. I tried to see how much they value their Map-Making:
Their Map-making for our Polythesis + 60 gold sum.
But I didn't trade for it.
[7]:
Allengheny: warrior -> spearmen (thanks for Allengheny productive ability, we're growing militaristically stronger than other nations! Now, we need more spearmen to protect our future swordmen...)
I decided it's time to hook up the Iron, so I sent three workers to road the mountain, and it'll take 3 turns to complete it.
Settled Caughnawaga at site number 4.
[8]:
Oil Springs: spearmen -> warrior
Ordering workers around.
[9]:
Nothing much.
[10]:
Niagra Falls: temple -> wealth (give it one more turn to grow, and then you can start buiding worker).
Oil Springs: warrior -> warrior (probably the last warrior it'll produce).
Both Japan and Zulu knows know Map-Making, and the Persians still do not know Polythesis. Good trading here for next player (SolarKnight, I think). Monarchy discovery is due in 2 turns as well.
We'll have both the dye and iron hooked within two turns, and we have excessive gold to pay for the upgrade for the warriors, and I suppose we can invade Japan very soon.
Let's Invade Japan!
DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
Yeah I know. I just wanted to see stick horses
.Sidebar: When I lived in Vegas, my apartment application had a section on pets with a small box that said picture of pet. Since I didn't have any photos on me I drew a stick cat in the box and turned in my app.
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
Nice set Shogun... don't know about not settling until we can't expand anymore, but the production of our army came along very nicely there.... We really should take another choke point in the jungle so we can cut it out for our MW easily.
Mistfit
Deity
(Delurk)
Don't you want to get your scout moving out of Japans territory?
I can't be sure but it looks like it is 5 turns or so inside their territory. Unless you plan to disband it. I hate doing that is seems such a waste if it soes not go towards a city or something.
(back to perpetual lurking)
Don't you want to get your scout moving out of Japans territory?
I can't be sure but it looks like it is 5 turns or so inside their territory. Unless you plan to disband it. I hate doing that is seems such a waste if it soes not go towards a city or something.
(back to perpetual lurking)
SolarKnight
Guardian of the Balance
I'm here.
1) 6 Cities, 8-12 swords? maybe a few more, as the RNG usually doesn't like me, ETA, ASAP, possibly my turns if not then next player.
2) Probably to secure the last site on the choke with japan, to seal them into their own territory.
3) I agree with spot 3 as it will have the fish and the luxury, which will mean that although the city may never be huge, it will be able to generate commerce and shields to turn into science and units. It will also enable us to link the incense into our empire and reap its benifits. (top priority, happiness is going to be a neccesity during the war, to enable us to assimilate the enemy cities faster, and will also help when we decide to go into a more representative government.)
Site 4 looks good to me as well, it will have the hills and will enable us to connect up the roads between towanda and mauch chunk faster, this will enable us to send units down towards persia faster, and settle the jungle faster.
4) Pros: When x-man's time comes, we will be able to deliver our fury to him faster, meaning a shorter war.
Cons: More chance of his units getting to our cities, so greater chance of losing cities, though that would be dependant on the amount of units sent his way and the skill of the warmonger controling them
5) IMO we should get that scout out of their ASAP, i hate rep hits, and it will only be killed when war starts anyway. at this stage, i would have either disbanded the scouts or be getting ready to ship them to another continent.
6) Tough call on poly, we could go for it now and get the gold, or we could see what everyone else has tech - wise and trade tech for tech. I would be very temptet with the gold, but if the others are willing to let us have a couple of techs for it each, then i would do that, we don't want to fall too far behind the AIs.
7) One advance we could research soon is literature, i know the great library is off limits, but it gives us libraries to increase our culture and science, and it is also researched late by the AI normally, so we should be able to trade it for some of the techs we are behind by (if any) (max possible maybe as we dont know how close the ai is to it..
Techs the ai could have soon:Maths, HBR, MM, COL PHIL, etc. (The AI always seems to get these quicker than me on monarch.)
1) 6 Cities, 8-12 swords? maybe a few more, as the RNG usually doesn't like me, ETA, ASAP, possibly my turns if not then next player.
2) Probably to secure the last site on the choke with japan, to seal them into their own territory.
3) I agree with spot 3 as it will have the fish and the luxury, which will mean that although the city may never be huge, it will be able to generate commerce and shields to turn into science and units. It will also enable us to link the incense into our empire and reap its benifits
. (top priority, happiness is going to be a neccesity during the war, to enable us to assimilate the enemy cities faster, and will also help when we decide to go into a more representative government.)Site 4 looks good to me as well, it will have the hills and will enable us to connect up the roads between towanda and mauch chunk faster, this will enable us to send units down towards persia faster, and settle the jungle faster.
4) Pros: When x-man's time comes, we will be able to deliver our fury to him faster, meaning a shorter war.
Cons: More chance of his units getting to our cities, so greater chance of losing cities, though that would be dependant on the amount of units sent his way and the skill of the warmonger controling them
5) IMO we should get that scout out of their ASAP, i hate rep hits, and it will only be killed when war starts anyway. at this stage, i would have either disbanded the scouts or be getting ready to ship them to another continent.
6) Tough call on poly, we could go for it now and get the gold, or we could see what everyone else has tech - wise and trade tech for tech. I would be very temptet with the gold, but if the others are willing to let us have a couple of techs for it each, then i would do that, we don't want to fall too far behind the AIs.
7) One advance we could research soon is literature, i know the great library is off limits, but it gives us libraries to increase our culture and science, and it is also researched late by the AI normally, so we should be able to trade it for some of the techs we are behind by (if any) (max possible maybe as we dont know how close the ai is to it..
Techs the ai could have soon:Maths, HBR, MM, COL PHIL, etc. (The AI always seems to get these quicker than me on monarch.)
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
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