Global Steam Engine Agreement of 1850

[Bozo Erectus]

In the year 1850, the Great Powers gathered in Vienna and signed the Global Steam Engine Agreement. This agreement stipulated that non Western people around the world were not to be trusted with steam power and other technologies, because if they possessed them, they might begin to think that they were the equals of the West, and begin acting independently, in ways we didnt preapprove. Under the agreement, the only way these countries could have railways would be if they were built and operated by Westerners. These railways also had to be open to regular inspections, to ensure that no high technology was being transferred to the country. For over fifty years the agreement remained intact, but then with the outbreak of WW1, the various Western factions needed all the help they could get from their colonial possesions, so in return for full unwavering support, the agreement was abandoned and steam power and other technologies were allowed to move freely throughout the world.

Sounds pretty stupid doesnt it? If you could go back in time in this alternate history, youd tell them the whole thing was a waste of time, right? So what is it about nuclear non proliferation that makes any sense?

 

[warpus]

Trains kill stupid and/or unlucky people.

Nuclear weapons kill everyone.

 

[The Yankee]

I figure the hair that's split is between nuclear weapons and merely nuclear power. There are some countries with nuclear power (I imagine they let the IAEA peek at their reactors) without the weapons.

Though, if you're saying that steam power also used for things such as a navy or for the militarized use of the railways (which was a huge advantage at the time)...you'd have a good case to be made there.

But after all, more than the Great Powers signed the Nuclear Non-Profilieration Treaty. I think only a handful haven't.

 

[Tenochtitlan]

It is a matter of which side are you on.

 

[GenMarshall]

In the year 1850, the Great Powers gathered in Vienna and signed the Global Steam Engine Agreement. This agreement stipulated that non Western people around the world were not to be trusted with steam power and other technologies, because if they possessed them, they might begin to think that they were the equals of the West, and begin acting independently, in ways we didnt preapprove. Under the agreement, the only way these countries could have railways would be if they were built and operated by Westerners. These railways also had to be open to regular inspections, to ensure that no high technology was being transferred to the country. For over fifty years the agreement remained intact, but then with the outbreak of WW1, the various Western factions needed all the help they could get from their colonial possesions, so in return for full unwavering support, the agreement was abandoned and steam power and other technologies were allowed to move freely throughout the world.

So by that agreement, no non-Western Nations would not be allowed to have Steam Locomotives?

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Steam isn't a weapon.

Next!

 

[The Yankee]

Neither is nuclear power only used for energy and not weaponized. Steam locomotives (remember, 1850 here) allowed armies and people (and news, if you're an imperial power looking to quell a rebellion) to move much more quickly.

 

[GenMarshall]

Of course Steam can be used as a weapon of war, just in longistics. Steam Locomotives have been used in moving troops and supplies during the Civil War, World War I and II.

Unless one is thinking of creating a steam weapon that would be used to give people scalding burns would be silly

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Yes, thank you for recording my own foolishness for posterity... four... times... over...

 

[skadistic]

Wow a quadrouple post !!

Now the steam tech that was later given to non-western peoples was it ever used against the western powers after it was given to them? You can bet that if nuke tech is given to non-western nations it will be used as either a weapon of offence or as a black-mail tool.

 

[HawkeyeGS]

Yes well you don't exactly catch the city's nuclear ICBM to work everyday. There is a difference between a train and a nuclear weapon.

 

[Red Stranger]

The difference is that steam engine is no longer one of the most powerful tools, but nuclear weapons still are. When we develop some weapon much more powerful than nukes and can render nukes powerless, I wouldn't care if some crazy guy has nukes. For now I do.

Knowing what I know now, if we only have 1850's technology, I wouldn't want a non friendly power to have Steam Engines

 

[Zardnaar]

At the time it was high tech and allowed other countries to develop. In a way it was a nuke race of the 1800's. A country is under no obligation to share its tech with others.

 

[allhailIndia]

At the time it was high tech and allowed other countries to develop. In a way it was a nuke race of the 1800's. A country is under no obligation to share its tech with others.

True, but the NPT is more about telling other nations NOT to develop it.

Its more like, "We have it, you can get a teeny bit of it if you behave, but if you try to make it on your own, see what I'll do to you.."


Let us also not forget that this was the Golden era of colonization and a large number of Eastern nations were either under direct colonial rule or subject to European control in indirect ways.

The situation is not exactly the same now, as the NPT prevents other countries from even acquiring nuclear power without their permission and supervision. Perhaps it is justified given the earth-destroying capabilities of a nuclear weapon, but that still doesn't explain why the Big Five continue to maintain their nuclear weapons merely because they got there first.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Sounds pretty stupid doesnt it? If you could go back in time in this alternate history, youd tell them the whole thing was a waste of time, right? So what is it about nuclear non proliferation that makes any sense?

The NPT isn't comparable to your strawman.

First, any country is free to stay out of it and develop nukes to its leisure (Israel, India, and Pakistan have chosen this route.)

Second, a country joining the NPT gets access to the civilan nuclear expertise of the other countries. You sign away your freedom to develop nuclear weapons in return for something.

 

[Zardnaar]

Western Europe/America developed it. Bad luck for the rest of the world. Like most technology they got it eventually.

 

[Verbose]

Now the steam tech that was later given to non-western peoples was it ever used against the western powers after it was given to them?

Japan vs. Russia 1905.

 

[Savas cafe]

(...)First, any country is free to stay out of it and develop nukes to its leisure (Israel, India, and Pakistan have chosen this route.) (...)

correct phrase sould be ...First, any country allied to USA is free to stay out of it ...

 

[Phlegmak]

Sounds pretty stupid doesnt it? If you could go back in time in this alternate history, youd tell them the whole thing was a waste of time, right? So what is it about nuclear non proliferation that makes any sense?

Your analogy is meaningless. You're comparing apples and two ton bricks.

 

[Leonel]

Yes well you don't exactly catch the city's nuclear ICBM to work everyday. There is a difference between a train and a nuclear weapon.

I wouldn't mind taking one into downtown Portland.

YEHAW!!!

Seriously, someone needs to make a Strangelove emoticon with a smily with a cowboy hat sitting on a nuclear bomb.