gmaharriet1.1

Okay... I'm a little confused on the courthouse thing myself... I thought they were pretty powerful in communism.

@Bede: If you're talking about building courts after the switch to communism... can we build them while mobilized? I was thinking we might want to mobilize the economy at some point... to kick this thing into high warmongering gear...

...and... as for this one:
Bede said:
....if the setup is typical scoutsout the micromanaging will be frightening (for the first turnsets or so)
...all I can say is pthpthpthpth! :p
 
scoutsout said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bede
....if the setup is typical scoutsout the micromanaging will be frightening (for the first turnsets or so)


...and... as for this one:...all I can say is pthpthpthpth! :p

All the more reason to make Bede do the micromanaging. :lol:

Don't think we could make courthouses in mobilization.
 
When the mice turned rats game happened, DocT was all over us to get courts up in the high commerce/shield cities before revolting. My understanding that courts are critical too. :confused:
 
lurker's comment: IIRC from the last time i was Commie, Courthouses are very powerful. And i am certain you cant build courthouses while mobilized. I tried in a PBEM game yesterday.
 
When you make the switch to Communism in C3C the big money comes from the increase in OCN and the free troop support and a properly located SPHQ. Courthouses may add a coin or two, but not so's you'd notice, and by using cops in the right places you get back that and more, anyway. They do make a huge difference in Civ3 1.29 and PTW, but the change in the corruption model in C3C makes them more useful in higher corruption government forms, or those where you get a commerce kicker from roads and such.

Now I haven't done the kind of analysis that will prove my contention to your aunt, so don't let the facts confuse me.
 
Spent 110gpt but picked up 119bpt by swapping tax collectors for science in some places and hiring cops in others. Beakerheads give 3bpt vs 2gpt for the tax collectors so if the objective is a science run then beakerheads are the better buy. The cops help too by regaining gold to run through any multiplier buildings. Takes a couple turns off the research to Electricity.

The Arabs are busy with the Hitties at Giza, so the Aztec cavalry gets pointed at Heliopolis and Memphis.



Steal Giza out from under Arab noses.


Memphis was easy.


Heliopolis is a little tougher.






Lessee, two turns in WLKTD day breaking out all over and Egypt still occupies a corner of "The Other Continent" :hmm:

Heal up some armies then charge, losing a cavalryman to a concerted longbow attack by Cleo





Got a boat load heading to take the Egytian capitol on an island. Sent some elites for some general farming...
Cleo has a caravel heading up the bay east of Heliopolis.


And the hot knife for the Arab butter:



And there is a smaller stack lurking in the mountains at Giza.

Took a little different tack than that suggested by the scout, and started on Industrialization so we can do Espionage, then Replaceables, then Communism, with a prebuild for the SPHQ at Kyoto I think while we are waiting for Communism.

If you see a town with one turn left to grow peel off a worker. The homeland cities need some terrain trimming. There are worker stacks cleaning up around the productive core now that most of the milnet is done. There is still some work to be done outside the core though.
 
Got it.

I'll take a look at the save and probably be back with questions. I just awakened and sipping first :coffee: . Warmongering is still a very weak point for me, so I'll need to study it a bit.

Interesting point about courts being really useful only in vanilla 1.29 for Commie.
 
I'd had the opportunity to see a couple of earlier saves in this game, as Scout was helping me do situational analyses. He didn't specifically say so, but I assumed he was originally going for a cultural victory with the warmongering as a means of grabbing more territory in which to build culture. I've never used Commie ever and not even Monarchy since about 9 months ago at Regent level. It seems the ultimate goal has changed, and I'm a bit confused on lots of details. So here come the questions...

If we don't want courts, are the ones being built now just placeholders for something else? If so, what?

Re peeling off workers in towns with only 1 turn to grow...all towns? no add'l scientists? just the less productive towns not building military?

There are some temples being built in towns which will grow shortly or could produce immediate workers. Do we really want temples for the border/culture expansions or do we want workers or scientists? or should the temples be swapped to libs? aquas? I'm assuming that some libs being built in currently 1-shield, 1gpt towns are in anticipation of being more productive in Commie.

3 war fronts immediately? finish off Egypt and attack both Arab-held Thebes and Arabian home territory (Najran?) at the same time?

Re going for Industrialization...factories to be built? or just a step toward Espionage? It won't complete on my turnset, but just a general question.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it appears that the more corrupt areas were being developed for growth (irrigation). If we are going to Commie, should development be switched to mining to make those areas more productive? What else should I be doing for MMing in towns for preparation besides railing?

I can't believe I just spent almost 3 hours looking at the game and coming up with questions.:eek:
 
Bear in mind... it's actually been a month since I looked at this game... and I can't promise that the "blood of my enemies" wasn't the only thing I was imbibing in at the time... :crazyeye:
gmaharriet said:
...I assumed he was originally going for a cultural victory...
Domination or Conquest. Conquest preferred. :D
If we don't want courts, are the ones being built now just placeholders for something else? If so, what?
Personally... I'd like the courts. If we later choose to mobilize the economy, CEs are not so useful...

Re peeling off workers in towns with only 1 turn to grow...all towns? no add'l scientists? just the less productive towns not building military?
I think Bede is talking about the more productive towns that are already maxed out in population. Peeling a worker as it's about to "grow" from size 12 is a great way to get workers without losing population.
There are some temples being built in towns which will grow shortly or could produce immediate workers. Do we really want temples
I'd like for each town to be able to access the full 21 tiles... Though many of the towns on The Other Continent will never use all of the tiles... once we go commie we'll want each city working the best available 12 tiles. If you want to swap some temples out...that's fine by me.
3 war fronts immediately? finish off Egypt and attack both Arab-held Thebes and Arabian home territory (Najran?) at the same time?
Finish off Egypt... keep enough Cav in the west to skirmish any longbows Arabia throws at you from the former Egyptian towns, and focus on taking Mecca and all the towns in between.
Re going for Industrialization...factories to be built?
If we're going to mess with industrialization... we might as well build some factories in our most productive towns... Though I was rather looking forward to a mobilized communist state in which every town was producing something for the war effort...A factory in Tenochtitlan makes sense...and the city with the Military Academy should get one too.
...it appears that the more corrupt areas were being developed for growth (irrigation). If we are going to Commie, should development be switched to mining to make those areas more productive? What else should I be doing for MMing in towns for preparation besides railing?
Trim the terrain as you see fit, but generally focus on rails...I had been setting up the corrupt towns to go long on food to support the Civil Engineers...

Now I'm going to have a peek at the save.
 
while harriet was using those 3 hours to think of questions, I made a picture of what I think Bede's plan is:



I looked at the save too. Build rails. Attack hard on the front. Leave a city undefended (within reason) if you need "just one more unit". Not sure this will last much into commie
 
scoutsout said:
Domination or Conquest. Conquest preferred.
Well, ya sure have a LOT of culture. ;) That should help against flipping.
Personally... I'd like the courts. If we later choose to mobilize the economy, CEs are not so useful...
I'll just leave them alone then.

I think Bede is talking about the more productive towns that are already maxed out in population. Peeling a worker as it's about to "grow" from size 12 is a great way to get workers without losing population.
Gotcha!
I'd like for each town to be able to access the full 21 tiles... Though many of the towns on The Other Continent will never use all of the tiles... once we go commie we'll want each city working the best available 12 tiles. If you want to swap some temples out...that's fine by me.
I'll prolly leave most of them as is for now.
Finish off Egypt... keep enough Cav in the west to skirmish any longbows Arabia throws at you from the former Egyptian towns, and focus on taking Mecca and all the towns in between.
Ok. :)
A factory in Tenochtitlan makes sense...and the city with the Military Academy should get one too.
Makes sense to me too.
Trim the terrain as you see fit, but generally focus on rails...I had been setting up the corrupt towns to go long on food to support the Civil Engineers...
Rails it is...we definitely need more.

Now I'm going to have a peek at the save.
Good idea!!! :lol:

PS: Just saw AK's post while typing this. Thanks for the pics. :) I'll try to get going on this soon.
 
Industry is a prereq for Espionage which we need for the SPHQ. Factories are needed at least in the MilAcad town, doesn't matter most anywhere else.

There is enough weight in the west to just tear those Arab towns apart, no need to fiddle with skirmishing with longbows. The Arab muskets all appeared to be heading home once the war with the Hittites was over.

And the Adm seems to have it right.
 
Methinks that the Venerable One resents building anything with maintenance costs. :)

For this phase, are cannons even necessary? Seems like cavs have enough speed and firepower to do the job, and cannons are just for mop-up.
 
Bede said:
There is enough weight in the west to just tear those Arab towns apart, no need to fiddle with skirmishing with longbows.
I'm starting turn 2 and came back to look at AK's map (terrible short-term memory). :crazyeye: We now have Najrit.

Looks like I'll be skirmishing, because I didn't attack in the west and the LB's are all headed for our nearest town. Think I have it covered, but will know soon. :eek:

@ SimpleMonkey I think you're right about the cannons. They're trailing behind with no rails in the area and don't have the 2-tile range of arty, so haven't been helpful. Think I'll stop building anymore for now. :)
 
THe cannon were there to soften up the first towns attacked so the cavalry could move right on and over the next one. Once that job was done they can rest on their laurels, head back home, or get disbanded to hurry up a build someplace.

Stacked longbows can make a mess of a cavalry force, BTW, so be watchful.

And if I am going to spend a penny I'd rather put it in a cavalryman's sabretache.
 
Bede said:
THe cannon... get disbanded to hurry up a build someplace.
Oh please... don't disband any cannon... they'll be useful as artillery pieces in the upcoming French campaign. Send 'em homeward for upgrading.
SimpleMonkey said:
Methinks that the Venerable One resents building anything with maintenance costs. :)
That he does.
Bede said:
And if I am going to spend a penny I'd rather put it in a cavalryman's sabretache.

SimpleMonkey said:
For this phase, are cannons even necessary? Seems like cavs have enough speed and firepower to do the job, and cannons are just for mop-up.
For the Arabian campaign... it's a straight-up Cavalry "Charge!"... with a little skirmishing against any counters.
Bede said:
Stacked longbows can make a mess of a cavalry force, BTW, so be watchful.
Which... is why I recommended keeping a skirmishing force in the west. Longbows that are interloping into our territory are easy prey for a skirmishing force... but I saw the number of longbows that Abu sent against Cleo...
gmaharriet said:
Looks like I'll be skirmishing, because I didn't attack in the west and the LB's are all headed for our nearest town. Think I have it covered, but will know soon. :eek:
You can't say I didn't warn you. :mischief:
 
Pre-turn Aztecs 1200ad - Move galleons toward our main continent to pick up cavs being built. Move a cav to Elephantine for MP and move the AC Army to Giza. MM a bit to get another 7gpt without slowing growth, builds or research. Move most of our military in Osaka to just outside the Arab borders of Najran. Hit <enter>

IT - Egypt drops off 1 reg LB at Hattusus. Texcoco cav -> cav, Tlaxcala cav -> cav, Xochicalco cannon -> cav, Nagoya uni -> cannon, Malinalco cav -> cannon. French and Persians start Bach's.

1. 1210ad - Unload our forces from boat on Egyptian capital island. Notice we have 2 galleons full of cavs sitting in Tlateloco and move them toward other continent (missed this pre-turn). Send 2 new cavs to Tlateloco. Railing. Flawlessly kill the Egyptian LB at Hattusus. Arab military has been moving back toward their main territory during last IT, but ask him to leave or declare anyway...unfortunately, he apologizes. (Our oh-so-wise Foreign Advisor suggests we trade Iron to him. :lol: ) So I declare and move our units next to Najran. Attack with A/C army, killing musket and promoting one of our A/C to elite. Use an elite A/C to take the city and Najran is ours, decide to keep it and move troops in for just this turn so Army can use rax to heal. There are 3 resisters and 1 taxman. Set to build worker.

IT - A HUGE bunch of Arab LB's head for Karhuyuk. France and Egypt sign a Trade embargo against us. Kyoto cav -> worker, Tenochtitlan cav -> worker, Teotihuacan cav -> worker, Tlateloco cav -> cav, Frankfurt market -> cannon, Tula cannon -> uni. Resistance in Najran ends.

2. 1220ad - Najran hires 3 more taxmen.

Battle for Avaris (Egyptian capital) - Attack with cav who is RL'd and retreats. At least 2 spears in there. Elite MDI takes out reg spear. Elite LB kills yellow-lined vet spear, and Avaris is ours. Both citizens are unhappy, so we have 2 more taxmen and start a harbor. Egypt is destroyed.

Battle for Medina - Leave Army in Najran to heal, send rest of troops to Medina. Vet cav kills LB and promotes to elite. Elite AC kills vet spear and another vet cav kills reg spear. Vet cav retreats to defending LB. Vet cav attacks LB and Medina is ours with 2 resisters. Set to worker and several taxmen. Leave healthy cav outside to protect wounded units with no movement left.

Battle for Thebes - Attack with one cav Army killing mustket then spear, and Thebes is ours with 1 resister, 2 workers and 1 treb. Set to worker with 3 taxmen. Lob rock at the LB's outside of town taking off 1hp. Finish 2 healthy LB's with other army and injured LB with elite cav...win, but no leader.

At Karhuyuk send cav Army to kill 2 of 9 LB's 2 tiles away, then retreat to defend town. Kill one more LB with an A/C Army, which is still at full health but only 1 movement left and across a river, so fortify. Kill another LB with a vet cav losing to hp's and retreating to rax to heal, leaving 5 reg LB's for next turn.

IT - LB kills one of our cavs outside Medina. Lots of LB movement around other towns. Resistance ends in Thebes and Medina. Kyoto worker -> cav, Tnochtitlan worker -> cav, Teotihuacan worker -> cav, Calixtlahuaca cav -> worker.

3. 1230ad - 5 reg LB's gathered outside of Thebes. Attack LB's with AC Army killing 2, then kill last 3 LB's with a cav army. Move slightly wounded 13/15 AC army into Thebes to heal. Kill last 2 LB's on mountain with 2 vet cavs, one promoting to elite. Move full-strength cav Amry to Pi-Ramses killing 2 reg spears, and Pi-Ramses is ours with no resisters, pop 1, and set to build temple. Fortify 12/14 Army to heal.

At Medina attack LB with elite AC, winning but no leader. Kill musket with vcav and win. Move A/C Army and several cavs within 2 tiles of Mecca.

IT - Lotsa Arab LB's and boats move around. Edo cav -> cav, Calixtlahuaca worker -> cav, Atzcapotzalco cav -> cav, Tlalmanalco Aqua -> harbor.

4. 1240ad - Move some vet cavs next to Kufah. 1st cav retreats, 2nd cav kills spear, 3rd cav retreats, 4th cav kills wounded spear and Kufah is ours with 3 resisters and 2 slaves and a treb. Set to temple with 3 taxmen. Kill one LB with vet cav outside city.

At Medina kill 2 LB's at the city gates with vet cavs, but no promos.

At Mecca kill vet LB in front of city, vet cav kills spear in Mecca and promotes to elite, another vet cav kills yet another spear and promotes, vet cav retreats to reg spear, vet cav kills spear, spear kills our vet cav, vet cav kills another spear, AC Army kills 2 more spears (how many can they have in there anyway???), vet cav kills spear and Mecca is ours with Magellan's Voyage, The GLight and 3 resisters. Set to worker and 4 taxmen. Kill 2 LB's outside Mecca with one promo to elite...then move all wounded to Mecca to heal.

IT - Get the simultaneous messages that resistance has ended in Mecca and that they are rioting...wonderful. Mecca now has 3 more taxmen. Arabs start Bach's.

5. 1250ad - Kill Arab LB outside Mecca with vet cav, getting promo to elite. Move all wounded units into rax, including our A/C Army still healing in Mecca. Move 2 Armies and several cavs nearer to Damascas for possible attack next turn. Also moved some units to the S/E coast to be sure to have enough military in cities if Arabs drop off any units, though I think they're pretty well gassed. Lotsa railing.

After notes: Mecca is at about 1.6% flip risk, but I took the chance of leaving our wounded in there for a 2nd turn. There are 4 healthy cavs outside to retake if necessary.

Empty galleons are sitting in Tlateloco waiting for newly minted cavs as they become available.

Industrialization is due next turn. Specialists are MM'd so that one less scientist would take it to due in 2. Other MMing notes...watch out for towns where I've stopped growth at 6 while waiting for an aqua or harbor to build and turned pop into taxmen. We currently have 529g in the kitty at +112. I usually don't know what to spend gold on, so there's gold available for rushes or upgrades for the next player.

Save attached. Pics to follow.
 

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  • Gma1.1_gma_Aztecs, 1250 AD.SAV
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1210 AD - Najran taken

1210 AD - French/Egyptian trade embargo

1220 AD - Avaris taken

1220 AD - Egypt is destroyed.

1220 AD - Trade embargo ends :lol:

1220 AD - Medina taken


more to follow...
 
1220 AD - Thebes taken

1230 AD - Pi-Ramses taken

1240 AD - Kufah taken

1240 AD - Mecca taken with GLight and Magellan's Voyage

1250 AD - New areas of our Empire

1250 AD - Remaining Arab Lands
 
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