That's right, but it is way harder to combine now, i mean before you could take Evangelism and Churches at the same time, now you need to wait for Boro and enhance after
Going for Gold: Enhancer Beliefs
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
Actually they do because of culture into tourism conversion.
Thats why i play Pangea only hehe
A cap on the scaling founders and enhancers is feasible. Should it be natural (I.e. tied to a game attribute) or fixed? I could have it limited to the number of owned cities, for example. A fixed one would probably be easier to explain.
G
In fact i remember maybe 2 years ago oor so founder did not scale based on followers and i have to say that it was a pretty good model in terms of balance and playstyle. Like the old WoT that was a very heavy boost early on but absolutely useless later, and some others that were useless early and very strong later.
I think balance-wise it might be a very good idea
ElliotS
Warmonger
I would do "Max 15 Foreign Cities" or whatever the correct number is. AKA You can always use all your cities.
Not having a scaler at all had its own balance issues, as it often resulted in a power spike for religious founders (if the bonuses were too low, they fell off too early - if too high they spiked too much).
G
Txurce
Deity
The main argument I see for scalers is that it'll work better with different maps and numbers of civs.
It could even be different for different beliefs. For example, I think Elders could cap at like 15 and include controlled or foreign cities. I think it should be 15 for any map size, Divine Inheritance doesn't get stronger on larger maps, so these shouldn't get a direct buff either.
Ceremonial Burial could just affect your own. I'm not sure if you need to cap friendly cities, because each one increases your culture costs, naturally offsetting itself. Its when you If I recall correctly, the reason these were changed was because they all really benefited tall more than wide, so linking it to controlled friendly cities is a good fix, but its okay to a few go by foreign cities too (so long as its capped). Its the yields for cities/followers that you don't control which gets out of hand.
Did you see my post in the founder thread?
Txurce
Deity
The more Gazebo work on VP, the tougher it gets. Something I believe that has yet to be discussed is the effect of adding a fifth religion. It has had the desired effect of diluting the awesome power of founding. But it also dilutes the effect of Pacifism and, to a lesser degree, Clericalism on happiness. Combined with the recent aggressive spreading tendencies of more civs than ever, I find that maintaining a decent number of like-minded cities is a never-ending task (sorta like competing for an AI's favorite CS).
My questions for all are:
1. Should any of the beliefs be adjusted in light of the extra religion's effects?
2. Should there be a stronger counter to the AI's heavier-than-ever flood of missionaries?
My questions for all are:
1. Should any of the beliefs be adjusted in light of the extra religion's effects?
2. Should there be a stronger counter to the AI's heavier-than-ever flood of missionaries?
phantomaxl1207
King
It does make the more passive Religious Pressure much more attractive if you don't plan on conquering your heretic neighbors.
My thought on Pacifism, Ritual, and Scripture: Pacifism seems the strongest of the three as it gives a side-bonus of happiness - but the others have the sole purpose of spreading religion faster, and it is not at all obvious that they do it better than any of the other choices (which also generate Faith that can be used for Missionaries), and have no side-bonus.
20% further away for Ritual quite frankly isn't very far, and even if it does reach more - the spread for distant cities is next to nothing anyways. This basically can only help India, and even then I'm wondering whether I'd pick something else anyways.
Scripture sounds nice with the Spy bonus, but it's not like Spies show up when you actually get this enhancer and are in the religion-spreading race.
My thought: If you combine Ritual and Scripture together into one belief, you might have a belief that's competent for something.
Clericalism also strikes me as fairly weak. The happiness bonus is not nearly enough to help a Warmonger, a non-Warmonger doesn't need it, and a 25% bonus to CS yields is meaningless as those yields trickle downwards as the game goes on. I'm not sure why I would ever pick this.
Combine Pacifism and Clericalism into one belief as well and again you might have a competent singular belief, but again I'm still not sure I'd pick it even then.
20% further away for Ritual quite frankly isn't very far, and even if it does reach more - the spread for distant cities is next to nothing anyways. This basically can only help India, and even then I'm wondering whether I'd pick something else anyways.
Scripture sounds nice with the Spy bonus, but it's not like Spies show up when you actually get this enhancer and are in the religion-spreading race.
My thought: If you combine Ritual and Scripture together into one belief, you might have a belief that's competent for something.
Clericalism also strikes me as fairly weak. The happiness bonus is not nearly enough to help a Warmonger, a non-Warmonger doesn't need it, and a 25% bonus to CS yields is meaningless as those yields trickle downwards as the game goes on. I'm not sure why I would ever pick this.
Combine Pacifism and Clericalism into one belief as well and again you might have a competent singular belief, but again I'm still not sure I'd pick it even then.
phantomaxl1207
King
The AI makes very good use of Ritual. I can't say it is weak when because of that.
If you are unsatisfied with Scripture - you are probably doing it wrong. It IS obvious that it do it better, MUCH better. Scripture should be taken when you want to spread your religion as much as possible. Scripture has amazing synergy with Holy Law for example.
Can't say about Ritual, it never felt appealing to me, but you should take into accounts that 20% further away actually increases area of your pressure (amount of cities that you can reach) by 44%. This means that more of your cities will generate pressure on every city of your neighbours.
If they are combined that will by crazy OP.
Well it has the trade route bonus as well... What if it gave a free trade route at industrial era?
Legen
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 1,454
I don't think it needs it. It's easy to underestimate how hard religious pressure can stack once you convert another empire to your religion, or once you stack Fealty + 2 building beliefs.
Natural city pressure isn't just there to convert other cities, it's also your defence against opposing conversions. These two beliefs do a good job at protecting you when dealing with multiple religious rivals.
Natural city pressure isn't just there to convert other cities, it's also your defence against opposing conversions. These two beliefs do a good job at protecting you when dealing with multiple religious rivals.
tu_79
Deity
Agree. Pressure can convert a few of pagan cities, but its main use is resilience. You can let other religions in, build anything that religion has to offer, and let pressure recover your city.
CrabHelmet
King
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2017
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- 732
Is there any reason to take anything over than Sainthood if you don't think you have a real prospect of spreading your own religion? I don't think Sainthood is overpowered per se, I just find it strange there is only really option (to my mind) for insular religions.
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