Going for Gold: Start Locations

[CrazyG]

I don't think you should change anyone to a hills bias. Its generally not a good start for someone who doesn't have synergy (pretty much only Inca does, Celts have a small boost). I wouldn't consider the Ottoman's unique forge a hill synergy, its too small to be significant.

By the way, does anybody know the value of city yield depending on the terrain (and the modifier from resources) ?

What I know about this is.......................
Settle on a hill= 2 food, 2 hammers
Settle on flat freshwater= 3 food, 1 hammer
Settle on flat land, no freshwater= 2 food, 1 hammer, 1 gold

The resource rules are tricky. I think the rule is that settling a resource will never decrease your yields. So look at settling on top of a gold resource.
You will always earn the culture.
You will earn the gold if its a hill, or if its freshwater. But if you are on flat land, no freshwater, you will still only earn 1 gold, not two.

Other examples/ things to note:
If you settle on grassland horses, you get no bonus. However, if you settle on plains horses, you get a free hammer.
Its generally really hard to get extra food from you settling position.
Settling on flood plain wheat does not give you 4 base food, not sure why. Its the only exception I've found.

Other resource boosts=
If a building increasing the yield of a resource specifically, the city will always receive this (granary, stables, stoneworks, luxury boosts, etc).
Example: A granary gives wheat +1 food. It will give the city +1 food if you settle on wheat. However, a boost to farms will not affect the city's tile itself, because it is not a farm.

If the monopoly gives +X food/culture/whatever, you get that.
The pantheons and other effects that award mines, pastures, plantations, quarries, camps, etc. will never count (its a city, not a plantation)
Spirit of desert will count (if you settle on a desert resource, you do get the bonus). I assume Tundra pantheon is the same but I haven't tested.

 

[randomnub]

Settle on a hill= 2 food, 2 hammers

Used to be like that, now it shows 3 hammers

Settling on flood plain wheat does not give you 4 base food, not sure why. Its the only exception I've found.

I think your city is considered founded on a plain desert tile, happens when founding/putting a GPI on oasis as well afaik.

 

[CrazyG]

Used to be like that, now it shows 3 hammers



I think your city is considered founded on a plain desert tile, happens when founding/putting a GPI on oasis as well afaik.

I don't think you can plant GPI on Oasis unless it changed last patch

 

[Moi Magnus]

Settle on a hill= 2 food, 2 hammers

Used to be like that, now it shows 3 hammers

That's one of th reason of my question. My knowledge was outdated, so I wanted a more up-to-date answer.

 

[Omen of Peace]

Settle on a hill= 2 food, 2 hammers

Used to be like that, now it shows 3 hammers

I filed a bug for this, #4494. But I think I did a bad job of explaining it, so it got closed.
@Gazebo could you take a second look please?

 

[tu_79]

I filed a bug for this, #4494. But I think I did a bad job of explaining it, so it got closed.
@Gazebo could you take a second look please?

I think it got closed because it's not a bug, it's a feature.

 

[CrazyG]

I think it got closed because it's not a bug, it's a feature.

If it is a feature, was it discussed at all, and what problem was it meant to address? Having all of them default to 4 yields was a good choice.

 

[tu_79]

If it is a feature, was it discussed at all, and what problem was it meant to address? Having all of them default to 4 yields was a good choice.

This change was made when farms were forbidden in hills. G did quite a few adjustments. More food on fresh farms, more hammers on hills, choppable jungle at calendar. Harder chopping. And he cleaned up specialist yields to be more focused.

 

[kawyua]

hills are so hard to deal with unless I'm the inca. >.< Not being able to build farms on freshwater hills anymore is stressful to know how to deal with. I have to try so hard to make them dedicated tiles for trading posts.

hill settling with 2 and 3 is lol. I have the excess production to go shrine->worker->monument (sometimes even worker ->shrine-> monument if I'm really food starved) to get the freshwater farm +2 set up as fast as possible, so food isn't that hard to come by. Unless of course the ENTIRE LAND is hills or tundra or whatever. those suck >.<

 

[Omen of Peace]

This change was made when farms were forbidden in hills. G did quite a few adjustments. More food on fresh farms, more hammers on hills, choppable jungle at calendar. Harder chopping. And he cleaned up specialist yields to be more focused.

I believe it's an even more recent change, from the April or May release that had a lot of tile yield issues.
Since it wasn't called out, I suspect it is not intentional. It makes settling on a hill much more desirable.

 

[Rekk]

Isn't settling on a hill the most desirable start location, above even settling on a river? What reasons would an immortal/deity player have to settle off of a hill?

 

[Owlbebach]

Isn't settling on a hill the most desirable start location, above even settling on a river? What reasons would an immortal/deity player have to settle off of a hill?

Lots. More resources, more food, better defensive position, river access (for tradition it is important). Though hill is usually better

 

[black213]

I personally feel like starting with resources is still far too good compared to any other yields.

 

[Owlbebach]

I personally feel like starting with resources is still far too good compared to any other yields.

This is actually true maybe in 80% cases at least

 

[black213]

What if that initial culture from the respective resources was to be shifted to the improvement yields? Would they still be too impactful? Just a quick thought.

 

[pineappledan]

What if that initial culture from the respective resources was to be shifted to the improvement yields? Would they still be too impactful? Just a quick thought.

thats exactly what already happened to the resources with science on them. It seems reasonable

 

[CrazyG]

Isn't settling on a hill the most desirable start location, above even settling on a river? What reasons would an immortal/deity player have to settle off of a hill?

I mean if I'm choosing between a hill in the middle of nowhere and a flat tile next to two Sugar tiles, I'm taking that flat tile.

I don't see why hills have 3 hammers though. Its just a free yield all game, and it makes a big impact early on.

 

[Gazebo]

I mean if I'm choosing between a hill in the middle of nowhere and a flat tile next to two Sugar tiles, I'm taking that flat tile.

I don't see why hills have 3 hammers though. Its just a free yield all game, and it makes a big impact early on.

It's a bug from the refactor, I left some errata in the CBO.

G

 

[Owlbebach]

What if that initial culture from the respective resources was to be shifted to the improvement yields? Would they still be too impactful? Just a quick thought.

Might be a good idea overall, but require rebalance of many resources, cause right now they are sort of balanced aroung it (i.e. Furs give early super tiles but a crappy resource long-term)

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Looking at the starting biases, I'd change the Inca's to Hills/Mountains. I've seen plenty of games where the Inca's capital lies far from any mountain range.