Going for Gold: Units

[ElliotS]

Ok, that makes sense. Any idea how to make late game units matter? Because they are also locked in the tech tree, right?

Honestly just make a modmod "Late game expansion" that does the changes you want. Then you and anyone else who wants it can play around with values so all VCs are fair.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I still think anti-aircraft units need some attention. The city siege promotion on them is weird, and the AI still like to use them against cities.

Can AA intercept aircraft that are outbound from a city they're swarming?

 

[CppMaster]

Honestly just make a modmod "Late game expansion" that does the changes you want. Then you and anyone else who wants it can play around with values so all VCs are fair.

That's the problem, I don't know what changes should be made to make late game units useful when we exclude changing tech tree or cost of techs.

 

[Owlbebach]

Tech tree is locked and not being changed any more.

G

Okay i'm fine with that, but maybe make them a bit cheaper? I mean i understand that they cost as much as Tank, but still. I just feel sad that this part of the game almost does not exist. You have Archers/Melee/Siege/Horse units throughout the whole game. And then you have only 40 turns to build and use Aircraft. It is literally 40 turns from first plane to the end of the game, i just checked my screens.

 

[Gazebo]

Okay i'm fine with that, but maybe make them a bit cheaper? I mean i understand that they cost as much as Tank, but still. I just feel sad that this part of the game almost does not exist. You have Archers/Melee/Siege/Horse units throughout the whole game. And then you have only 40 turns to build and use Aircraft. It is literally 40 turns from first plane to the end of the game, i just checked my screens.

40 turns in one game is not 40 turns in all games.

G

 

[Stalker0]

This is probably the peacenik in me but if I'm doing air strikes for 30 turns with a group of planes I feel I've used them plenty!

 

[Owlbebach]

40 turns in one game is not 40 turns in all games.

G

Well that was a game where i didn't prioritize science and did prioritize military techs . I kinda rushed into Flight actually. Frankly, it was a game where my use of Air was significantly above average.

Screen with a tech tree: https://i.imgur.com/AdRfuk0.png. In games where you do not focus on war - you either take Research Labs first and Radio 2nd or the opposite, but those two are highest priority for sure. Only after that you take Flight. Therefore you get to Air ~15 turns later.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

We haven't had aircraft all that long, irl. I'm fine with lengthening out the end game a bit -- a bit -- but "epic" and "marathon" speeds are where we go to do this already.

 

[crdvis16]

But then the culture leader simply takes all sites, doesn't he? That seems even worse to prevent snowballing.

What could help however is putting a limit on the number of archaeologists alive at one time (like for the Assyrian Siege Tower), then the tech leader wouldn't simply be able to send its archaeologists all over the world while spamming them. And there is suddenly an incentive to dig out the (closer) sites on own territory before sending out archaeologists to farer ones.

@Gazebo did you happen to see this post about slowing the archaeologist rush? Tying the number of archaeologists to something like the number of Museums in your civ or just using a hard cap of 2 or something could slow down the mad rush that occurs and that favors tech leaders. No idea if it's an easy thing code wise but a bunch of us thought it could be a good idea.

 

[Gazebo]

@Gazebo did you happen to see this post about slowing the archaeologist rush? Tying the number of archaeologists to something like the number of Museums in your civ or just using a hard cap of 2 or something could slow down the mad rush that occurs and that favors tech leaders. No idea if it's an easy thing code wise but a bunch of us thought it could be a good idea.

I've actually considered adding a cap of 1(!) at any time, adding a few free ones to a wonder (probably Louvre) and adding a variable to that rather bland World Congress resolution (the Historic Landmarks one) that increases the cap to 3, etc. Something to greatly slowdown the rush.

G

 

[CrabHelmet]

I've actually considered adding a cap of 1(!) at any time, adding a few free ones to a wonder (probably Louvre) and adding a variable to that rather bland World Congress resolution (the Historic Landmarks one) that increases the cap to 3, etc. Something to greatly slowdown the rush.

G

What if the cap was 1 per Public School?

 

[Gazebo]

What if the cap was 1 per Public School?

New code. Nope.

G

 

[CrabHelmet]

New code. Nope.

G

Huh, fair enough. 1 just seemed a bit miserly to me. What could it be attached to as a scale without using new code?

 

[Stalker0]

I agree that 1 is too low. Even 4-5 isn't a bad limit. I mean I'm used to spamming 10-15 of them if I'm going the full rush and that's on a small map. I have no idea how many you standard size players are throwing down!

 

[Bromar1]

New code. Nope.

G

What about +1 max archaeologists on a social policy? I think it would be extremely thematic for industry

 

[lunker]

If we're thinking of tying Archaeologists to something, maybe we can make them cost Paper?

 

[chicorbeef]

I've actually considered adding a cap of 1(!) at any time, adding a few free ones to a wonder (probably Louvre) and adding a variable to that rather bland World Congress resolution (the Historic Landmarks one) that increases the cap to 3, etc. Something to greatly slowdown the rush.

G

So does the Louvre increase the cap (I hope not) or just provide 2 free Archaeologists that don't count to the cap (but later ones do)?
I would suggest that Historical Landmarks not raise cap because it's a really popular, easy-to-vote-through proposal. Just a base cap of 1 sounds interesting to me, tbh.

Knowledge Through Devotion could increase the cap by 1, not sure if you want to buff it though. We could even remove the Archaeologist faith-purchase and have it increase the cap to 2 as compensation.

 

[Stalker0]

If we're thinking of tying Archaeologists to something, maybe we can make them cost Paper?

Its an interesting idea. It gives a diplomatic player whose pushing early but wants to change tactics an option. Or, if many players are going the archeologist game, you can switch to focus on diplo units and get an advantage there.

And the number of units is roughly in line. I like it.

 

[Gazebo]

Its an interesting idea. It gives a diplomatic player whose pushing early but wants to change tactics an option. Or, if many players are going the archeologist game, you can switch to focus on diplo units and get an advantage there.

And the number of units is roughly in line. I like it.

And then CSD becomes a CBO dependency. Nope.

G

 

[pineappledan]

If it's not acceptable to have paper pull double-duty, then a different strategic resource could be given by museums and wonders (ie. the Louvre). Each museum could provide a resident scholar resource. Maybe it could be called a "grant"?

Maybe Industry could give some additional Grants, or maybe one of their policies could increase archaeologist improvement speed?