GOTM - 01: A New Beginning. Pre-Game Discussion

[ainwood]

Do we have an estimate on when the patch is due out?

Unfortunately, no.

My *guess* is that they will be quite keen to solve some of these bugs & crashes sooner rather than later. I would hope that we'd get one within a week or so, but its just speculation.

 

[Puppeteer]

Good catch on the desert S of the hills. Given that and leaving my tree-hugger idea behind I'm looking at 1E to settle now to maximize river grass and hills. There should be enough food to work all the hills, then the rest of the grass gets cottages. Chop and burn the forests!

For tech I'll want agriculture for farms pretty soon. We already have mining. I still want a granary early, and I think that will come before cottages or even roads.

This start looks so good that even if I see a coast just east or west I'll probably still settle 1E and make the 2nd city on the coast.

 

[Ambiorix]

Just a thought : can you see from the screenshot whether the river is running east-west or west-east ? That would tell you in which direction to find the ocean.
In any case we'll know once we start up the game (sine the river is animated).

 

[DisruptiveIdiot]

Just a thought : can you see from the screenshot whether the river is running east-west or west-east ? That would tell you in which direction to find the ocean.
In any case we'll know once we start up the game (sine the river is animated).

You might be able to see if you zoom in once the game starts. This will be my first GOTM =) However, I just "feel" that the ocean is to the south and west. It wouldn't look right if the river was flowing the other way.

I don't have any particular inclinations right now, it all depends on the surrounding terrain but it looks like eastward expansion will be the best thing to do.

 

[hendu]

Just a thought : can you see from the screenshot whether the river is running east-west or west-east ? That would tell you in which direction to find the ocean.
In any case we'll know once we start up the game (sine the river is animated).

Well looking at the erosion pattern of the river it looks like it is flowing west to east, but I don't know if that actually means anything in civ, I'll have to check when I get home.

 

[Shillen]

I see people mentioning letting their city grow a little before making a settler and/or worker to help with technology. Well that's not really the case anymore like it was in civ3. The palace now gives you 8 commerce right off the bat. So even if you were to work a commerce tile with your extra pop it would only have a slight effect on your research rate. I will probably build a warrior before a worker. Unlike what someone else said, I think exploration is even more important in civ4 than it was in civ3. Sure you can't trade techs right away, but you really need to find the perfect city locations. Civ3 was all about packing cities tightly around your capital using every tile possible. Civ4 is nothing like that. It's about having little to no overlap and claiming as many resources as possible. So you really need to know what's around you.

I will move my warrior to the hill first. I almost always move the initial warrior/scout to a hill if there's one in range on the first turn just to see the most tiles possible, even though my settler won't be using the tiles down there. I agree with the assessment of there being desert south of the hills, so moving south would be a bad idea, unless by some stroke of luck they turned out to be flood plains. So the choice is either to move the settler east or northeast. If I move NE I'd lose one of the silks but I'd probably pick up some more grasslands and lose some hills. My idea is to make it a super research facility with the silks, gems, and putting towns on all the 2 food grasslands. So I'm not sure if moving E or NE would work best to accomplish that goal.

I'll also make sure to found a religion early before my 2nd town is built to ensure that Rome becomes the holy city. Then I can build the shrine and spread the religion to make it an even better super research city. Add in the +8 commerce from the palace and then take the bureaucracy/representation civics and build the Oxford University/Great Library. I could see Rome pulling in more beakers than the rest of my cities combined. That's the plan anyway.

 

[ainwood]

I'll also make sure to found a religion early before my 2nd town is built to ensure that Rome becomes the holy city. Then I can build the shrine and spread the religion to make it an even better super research city. Add in the +8 commerce from the palace and then take the bureaucracy/representation civics and build the Oxford University/Great Library. I could see Rome pulling in more beakers than the rest of my cities combined. That's the plan anyway.

Plus getting a library early, appointing a scientist and going for a great scientist to build an academy.

 

[KizilKar]

Aw man. When is the patch coming out? I really want to play this GOTM. It sounds like fun.

 

[remconius]

Ok guys, I made the screenshot in the map editor and ran a few scenario's. Worker from the start, or wait till size three. Worker first wins it hands down, check the thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137386

I built my first warriors after about 19 turns instead of normal 15 due to worker forest chop. So I had 4 warrior very soon to explore.

I tried a settler first game and REX to 4 cities, then started pumping praetorians. I kicked a$$ all over the place as they can easily handle fully fortified archers. But as you can imagine my economy was run into the ground; losing lots of gold. This kind of strat can only work if you build lots of cottages early on to support the war effort and science. You do need iron though, and as it is gotm we could very well be without.

 

[tolbox]

I agree with Remconius on the fact that praetorians sweep out everything in the classical era. You'd better get ready for early warmongering...
So I consider getting iron working very quickly, maybe say agriculture ( to farm wheat), bronze working, iron working...
As for the starting position, moving 1 tile East doesn't make you lose a turn and settling in grassland worth the try...

 

[Puppeteer]

I played a bunch last night; similar setup but random civ, and I got the Germans. Had a somewhat comparable starting area to this 4otm. (Actually most starts seem to be on river with a mix of grass, plains, hills and resources.) In that game I turned out to be on a rather small continent with one other civ, so I panicked and went for an all-out land grab. I felt like I was playing catch-up most of the game but definitely won the power game on my continent and was #2 of the civs I met after getting caravels.

After that game I see that a REX strategy is still viable, although not in the same form as Civ3. Maybe it's a SEX strategy: Strategic EXpansion. Given a high food start with the possibility of high commerce (river and/or plenty of grassland for cottages) such as this 4otm start I think I'll start trying harder to grab more area earlier. To do that I will place a priority on farming river grass tiles and putting cottages on other grass tiles. The river plains tiles will probably get farmed, too. I'll still want one city with some high hammer tiles available to make military; Rome can be that city or maybe city 2 depending on the location.

I'm beginning to see that food is flexibility in Civ4 much more so than in Civ3.

@remconius thanks loads for the comparison! Given that Caesar starts with roads (I think) and mining the worker will have something to do right away, but even if he didn't it might still be worth starting with a worker. And good catch on the 8c for the palace and early pop effect on research! You're right, there's not really a reason to wait on the worker. Thanks!

 

[tolbox]

In that game I turned out to be on a rather small continent with one other civ

So do I!
With the same setup, I got a 3 continent's world: 2 smalls and one bigger containing 4 civs. I took romans and did the same as you .
Did your practice game also had 3 continents?

 

[hendu]

I have yet to complete a game of civ4, I've been trying to work out strategies. So I've been playing a few turns, loading from a save, trying something new, till I figure out what the right movers are.

I've learned a lot, including what works for one leader doesn't work for another. I found city sprawl doesn't work very well for most leaders, but for Rome (which I've been playing since the 4otm was announced) city sprawl does't hurt you. City placement is still key, building junk cities don't help, but distant cities (especially if they are on the coast) don't cripple you financially.

I've gotten the best results from doing like reconius said. Build a worker and clear-cut the capitol. Like I said I haven't played the game to absolute victory, I may be hurting myself later, but the early boost I think justifies it. To me the 30 hammers in the first few turns mean a lot more than the mid-late game advantage. My second city (probably), gets to keep their forest.

As far a technologies I'm going to speculate a little. Since we start on a river, I think I'll go agriculture, bronze working, iron working. Not getting wheel feels weird, but if you can build the second city on the same river (hopefully where the river meets the ocean), then roads don't seem crucial. The other games I started I went for Hinduism, but not starting with mysticism, I think foregoing religion early is probably best. Hopefully one of my next door neighbors will found Hinduism or buddism, and we can just take it over with Praetorians.

Right now, I'm planning on founding Rome on the hill I'm on (I plan on going to war early and think the def. bonus will be important), I'll start building a worker and then warriors till Rome hits 3, then a settler, clear cutting with the worker (once I get bronze working). I really wish that corn was on the river .

I'll take a warrior along the river in each direction and hopefully find some goody huts, and a mystic civ. If I don't have iron near me, and if I don't have a religious founding neighbor, I think I'll have a very less than impressive game and end up founding a bunch of cities on the coast (wherever that is).

I'm not an expert, and have only been playing a little over a week on civ4 and really never got into civ 3, I played civ1 in high school and civ2 in college. So I probably made some errors in my post (feel free to correct me), but I feel I'm picking up the game pretty quick and am looking forward to the "4otm".

-hendu

 

[shumble]

I haven't bought the game yet, but this GOTM looks like a lot of fun. I have to wait until this semester ends since I don't want to buy CIV IV too close to finals. I might not get good grades and my wife will probably not be too happy if I don't sleep for a week.

It would be fun though to get in on the first GOTM in the new series. Puts everybody on sort of an equal footing so the end results will be interesting.

 

[HounddogLGS]

I think that starting postion looks great- better than most that I've come up with. Good defensive postion, health bonus, plenty of capacity for growth, production, and commerce, and in range of all visible resources. Too bad Rome doesn't start with a scout- that'd be my first move, then a worker.

when is the savegame going to be released??

 

[DaveMcW]

Don't worry about the late-game effects of clear cutting. You can build Workshops to restore the shields if you really need them.

In a core city with plenty of food, building cottages on top of forest is probably the best long-term investment.

 

[AlanH]

when is the savegame going to be released??

When there's a patch to deal with the game-breakers. I suggest you read the thread!

 

[Shillen]

Don't worry about the late-game effects of clear cutting. You can build Workshops to restore the shields if you really need them.

With a loss of food in the early-mid game and a loss of shields in the late game. Workshops are inferior to forests.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Looking at this I can see more strategy than I used to use. Cookie cutter doesn't work as well as it used to, though I think each leader has his strengths which can be a little cookie cutter for them. Have to see with time.

So, try for religion, go straight to IW or get Pottery and get those cheap granaries going. I think I'll forgo the religion for now, but the debate between finding where the iron is vs. early granaries is tough. Both have strong merit.

Start worker right away or get to size 2. With the barbarians in Civ4 it isn't as easy a choice. In the only game I've played so far my first warrior saved my first worker from barbarians. Don't know how odd that is. I'm thinking worker first, then lots of warriors until I hit size 3-5. Have no idea when to build that first settler, but I think it isn't earlier than size 3.

For initial moves, my warrior will go to the hill. I rather see more than see close as it wouldn't affect my settler move anyway. I don't like 1S as there might be desert down there, but I think 1E is prudent for the extra shields Rome will generate from the mined hills. If it were a plains/hill instead of the grassland/hills I'd consider settling in place for the extra hammer to start. Of course, there will be 3 squares we get that we can't see, but they don't look bad and may be useful.

I'd definately like to consolidate my continent. I did that my one game (with Saladin) on this level and though I was poor, I was able to recover and maintain the tech lead. By the time I started fighting other continents I was so advanced they rolled easily. I like the fact that captured cities can build culture. I found this useful to get to 10 culture quickly for expansion. Great for domination and could be skipped for conquest while still capturing LOTS of cities.

Oh, where, oh, where could our little patch be. Oh, where, oh, where could it be.

 

[kojimanard]

For those coming directly to the forums, there is a report on the CFC main page that a patch will be released next week.