GOTM-02: First Spoiler:

[beestar]

You essentially need a road, coastline, or river that connects your capital to theirs. I too found that it took a long time to get trade routes up and running. I actually had to send a worker into American territory to build the last few sections of road that would connect London and Washington and give me foreign trade routes. I suspect all the jungle is what made the AI so slow to develop them. As for the 'critical connection' I suspect that Mansa built a road to another civ who was already hooked up to several more, thus hooking you all together.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I did the same thing as you, used my open borders with Mansa Musa to send a worker into his territory, and link him with Persia. Not sure if this was what finally networked everyone together - could be, as you note, him building a link somewhere else.

 

[Elandra]

I decided not to look on your images just in case if they have some spoilish information and I am very early in the game.
However, I experienced something strange as well, I've seen a vertical line far from the land I explored that reveals some jungle tiles, it does not show entire squares, but at least it is clear what kind of terrain is there.



For whatever its worth, I noticed the same thing in my game. A strange vertical line of jungle or forest edging. I didn't correlate it to specific locations as it seemed to kind of jump around. I thought it was some kind of refresh error that placed a tiny slice of known land at random places: in other words, I was seeing a glimpse of what I already knew, just at the wrong spot. I didn't consider it a "peek" under the black rug. But it may very well be. I'll try to keep track if I see it in future maps. Does anyone know if it is unique to Lakes maps? (I've only ever played 2 Civ4 games: GOTM1 and GOTM2)

 

[Ribannah]

It seems to be. I saw it in several trial games before, and in this game as well. It is the dateline that by some bug is shown on the map. There was a dateline bug in Civ2, too, IIRC.

 

[Barn Owl]

I decided not to look on your images just in case if they have some spoilish information and I am very early in the game.
However, I experienced something strange as well, I've seen a vertical line far from the land I explored that reveals some jungle tiles, it does not show entire squares, but at least it is clear what kind of terrain is there.



For whatever its worth, I noticed the same thing in my game. A strange vertical line of jungle or forest edging. I didn't correlate it to specific locations as it seemed to kind of jump around. I thought it was some kind of refresh error that placed a tiny slice of known land at random places: in other words, I was seeing a glimpse of what I already knew, just at the wrong spot. I didn't consider it a "peek" under the black rug. But it may very well be. I'll try to keep track if I see it in future maps. Does anyone know if it is unique to Lakes maps? (I've only ever played 2 Civ4 games: GOTM1 and GOTM2)

I had the same thing on several occasions, but GOTM2 was only my 3rd Civ4 game and I hadn't experienced it before.

As to the game itself I underestimated the trouble I would get from Barbarians, lost 2 scouts and a settler early on and I was soon slipping ever further behind the other civs and just couldn't make it up. Still for my 3rd game and at a higher level than I'd played at before it was good experience.

 

[akots]

Compared to some people who managed to lose already after 1 or 2 hours of gameplay, it took me 4 or 5 hours only to get to 300BC where I meet the criteria of the spoiler. Have not built any wonders yet but will finish chopping Pyramids in a couple of turns and then plan on chopping the Oracle as well even though the marble is not hooked up. I have 6 cities and am at war with Spain being waged by a small swordsmen army, already captured Barcelona with horses nearby. Maintenance cost hurts but I can still run science around 50-60%.

Game is only beginning but I'm completely overwhelmed with how much time it takes to play. Last moth I was unable to submit due to lack of time but this month I started in advance and still have doubts if it is possible to finish or not.

I managed to keep barbarians out completely, have seen only two barbarian warriors and razed a barbarian city. Just keeping the fog cleared by 3 warriors (I wish they were scouts, then it would be possible to park them) moving constantly over Northen hills. A few other warriors were constantly patrolling in the south as well. I had a brief war with Aztec also waged by a single wondering warrior and the only purpose of this war sneaking a worker from them. Spain is very powerful indeed in terms that it has a lot and lot of units in the capital, I'm going to try to lure them out with some weak unit so that only a minimal number of defenders are left there.

Otherwise, seems like a funny map script. I guess I'm heading for a military victory. Sooner or later I'll get there hopefully.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Compared to some people who managed to lose already after 1 or 2 hours of gameplay, it took me 4 or 5 hours only to get to 300BC where I meet the criteria of the spoiler. Have not built any wonders yet but will finish chopping Pyramids in a couple of turns and then plan on chopping the Oracle as well even though the marble is not hooked up.

I doubt you're going to succeed at that. Most games seem to have the AIs build the Oracle by 500 BC. If they haven't built it yet in your game, they must be very close.

 

[akots]

Tough luck then, I'll chop something else. Swordsmen seem to be a good choice, I'll think about it.

Also, I'm playing in a window, after getting a CTD on a full screen, it seems to help and graphics are actually somewhat better at least on my LCD. Bad thing, the sound is choppy and sometimes even gone completely and certainly desynchronized.

 

[Perugia]

This is going to be interesting.... my first IVOTM and my first proper game of CIV as I upgraded from C3C in December but could not get it to work on my minimum spec PC. Luckily with the readme attached to v1.52 and reducing the graphic detail I got the game going.

I played many COTM but completed and submitted few due to the dreaded MM & Diplomacy screen effort needed to get a good finish but so I am really looking forward to IVOTM for ease of getting on with it.

I soon became hooked despite getting some lock ups (mostly on the AI turns)requiring reloads during IVOTM. Eventually I was enjoying the game so much that I decided to add 512Mb of memory to my measly 256Mb and increase the virtual memory file size accordingly. After the problems went away as long as I kept using the .ini file mods for full screen mode and memory saver.

Anyway now for a brief resume.....

I decided to settle in place and to go for a Cultural victory as this would allow me to concentrate on a core of just 3 cities which has synergy with the intention of the CIV designers to avoided te dreaded ICS (Infinite City Sprawl). Appologies to newbees but in C3 cultural victory was based on all your cities so it made sense to get as many as you could to maximise the number of cultural buildings and wonders.

London focussed on GP and supported them with the two good farms available from the starting position and later with a lighthouse. The plan was still to build as many cultural buildings and wonders as possible particularly AA wonders. I couldn't be sure but was pretty certain that old wonders would get a cultural benefit. In the end I was correct and the programmers have implemented the same 2x culture for old buildings as C3. (Not sure the actual date this cuts and wheterh epic is different from standard - I'd have to check my save files)

I also wanted to focus on Religion as this is a new concept. I decided to found as many as early as I could. I didn't really understand the trading implications of religion at the start. My plan was to build as many religious buildings as possible in my culture cities to earn culture. Wow! I can build 7 temples in this game not the lousy 1 allowed in C3. The I can build 7 cathedrals as well.

I also realised that great people are very useful and versatile. I could rush a much needed tech or building or I could provide a long term benefit to my worst performing culture city. I als saw that Great Artists could be used in the end game to ensure all 3 cities maxed out culture similtaneously.

So the plan was made.

The I founded on the spot and improved around London much as a lot of you people did. I went for an early worker and then mined the coast hill then was in place on the sheep as AH was learned. Then I went for agriculture and the wheat. Then I started on religion, missed out on the first one but got both Hinduism (London) and Judaism (York). York which was located west of the stone in a water poor area but I wanted those Pyramids and the location would later benefit from 2 wineries.

When we learned Judaism we responded yes to the revolution without thinking whether Hinduism would be better even though we had more Hindu cities than Jewish.

I had originally thought the Pyramids would allow all Civics and only realised it's usefulness had been toned down from CII. Still it was still very much worth it as I was able to get early Representation for that extra happiness and science.

I had several revolutions and never got more than 1 turn of anarchy but only ever changed 2 civics and had no more than 6 cities.

Notts was settled on the gems river. The best location we had but it had to play culture catch up so got most of the worker effort. I did a lot of chopping especially for wonders as these gave a whacking 90 hammers a time due to having both stone and marble connected.

Hastings was founded on the copper to get the marble and was supposed to be hooked up to our trade network along the coast. However, 3 turns before sailing was learned the copper got hooked up as the cutural borders of London and Hastings touched diagonally in the middle of the ocean. Hastings never amounted to much

Coventry our military city was founded next to the silk river north of York. Not a bad location but quite a bit of tundra in the fat cross. It was well placed no further than 3 tiles from nearly all the forest. Barracks and units were chopped out of there almost continually with the odd building thrown in.

Canterbury was founded in the jungle south of York to grab the gold and pigs.

Barbs were quite a problem at one point especially when they started getting archers and we only had warriors. We made sure we had some axes by the time the barbs got them. Never saw a single GH but went for a slow exploration.

At one point I sent all experienced exploration warriors and all axes home while a second wave of 0XP warriors was sent out to complete the task. These guys never had much of a barbarian problem as the AI had settled most useful land and we had open border agreements with all civs exept Montezuma by then.

I'm going to stop this now as I need my notes to be sure of dates. I can tell you that in 500AD I was not sure how to amass anything near 75,000 culture we had maybe 1500 at 30pt in each city.

 

[Ribannah]

I doubt you're going to succeed at that. Most games seem to have the AIs build the Oracle by 500 BC. If they haven't built it yet in your game, they must be very close.

I have noticed that the AI tends to choose Metal Casting as its free tech, and if you don't have it yet chances are good that you can trade for it. In that case, building the Oracle yourself is not gaining you much. Except when you want the culture or the gpp's, of course.

 

[jar2574]

I have noticed that the AI tends to choose Metal Casting as its free tech, and if you don't have it yet chances are good that you can trade for it. In that case, building the Oracle yourself is not gaining you much. Except when you want the culture or the gpp's, of course.

I like to grab Civil Service or Philosophy with the Oracle. Didn't manage it in my game though.

 

[Samson]

This is an interesting game for me, as I have never played on a map like this, nor have a played on 1.52 before. I have had great fun already.

It has been a while since I have not started with worker first and bronze working, so this is what I do. My wariour heads south west, finding the stone, gold and rice spot. That is my first city.

After bronze working I reaserch the essential worker actions, irrigation and pasture.

With forest chops I get a second worker and then a settler. Animals have appeared by the time I get the settler out, but I take a risk and send it out unescorted, and it survives.

I chop for stonehenge, before conecting up the stone. I build a few wariours in London, then a couple more settlers. I end up with the exact same city placement as Memphus [1]. The city near the stone and gold is my commerce city, the other 2 are units and London is settlers / workers (cos it has so much food it would grow beyond the happines limit otherwise).

I then prioritize Alphabet. I do this before Iron working, with hurts without being able to use the pigs or gems, but when I get it I catch up all other tech except Code of laws and polytheism. I then start expanding again, and this reduces to zero my reaserch capacity. I get iron working, but stagnate half way through construction. Gutted. If only I had gone for code of laws, that was a bad mistake and will probably cost me 10 - 15 turns by the end, perhaps more.

I make a table of my costs as I found more cities. Not all datapoints are included, but it gives you a good idea. Most of my cities were quite far from my capital. I only built cities if they had a food bonus, and most had 2 or 3 bonuses of 1 type or another. I hope it works, it need propertional font.

No. Cities |  Year  | City Maint. | Civic Up. | Increase
--------------------------------------------------------
4          | 160BC  | 12          | 4         |
5          | 160BC  | 15          | 7         | 6
6          | 80BC   | 22          | 11        | 
6          | 40BC   | 22          | 12        | 
7          | 40BC   | 28          | 14        | 8
8          | 140AD  | 35          | 16        | 
9          | 140AD  | 41          | 18        | 9 (close to capital)
I then conquered 2 cities, next founded is
12         | 730AD  | 103         | 46        | 
13         | 840AD  | 86          | 55        |

I had built some courthouses by the last one.

After I had built 9 cities, I had negative income at 0 science. I chop rushed a granery in each new city, improved the food resorce then spamed cotages. Once my income was just positive, I attacked spain for there 2 holy cities. These were defended by 2 and 3 archers, and fell with no trouble. Despite being conected to spain for some time, I had not got any religeion, so I concentrated on speading the religons about. This alowed me to run about 20% science, and I got construction and then code of laws in about 7 turns each, and a few courthouses allowed me to run 50% science.

The aztecs decided to attack the fatally injured spanish, and raized all their cities. If I could have afforded it, I could have taken the whole teretory, but as it is I got a couple of good city spots.

Now I can afford it, I started to think about war. Amarica was the most tempting target, with the piramids. The are however the only civ with the same state religon as me, and have ROP with all other civs. Aztecs are another obvoius target, as the hate me. The thought of 25% increase milatry prodction seals the fate of america, and it is not like anyone else is going to be able to threaten me.

For techs, I need to get banks to afford my new conquests, and knights would be useful, so I go for guilds then banking. By the time I get to banking I get it in 6 turns at 60% science.

I have all visable recorces except dyes, furs and ivory, all of which america has. I got the Hanging gardens, with boosted my pop on F9 from 2,619,000 to 4,089,000 in one turn. Soon after it reaches 10 million, at a time when my closest competetor has 1.5 million. I am close to the pop domination limit after only attacking 2 cities. I think I hav 17% of the land area. Though I have not completely decided, I think I shall go for domination victory.

A pick of my empire the turn I take washington, just my 3 civ capture.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111931&stc=1&d=1137446206
[1] http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110433&d=1136512898
[EDIT]Changed table
[EDIT 2] Added piccy.

 

[Flendon]

Well I kept a record of my major choices and recorded them in a diary like format for fun. I know I whined a lot about the combat. I realize I committed to some of the battles when I shouldn't have, but several of them I had odds that would have insured me an easy victory in my noble games.


4000 I started with sending my warriors towards the hill to see what they could find as I settled London immeadiately. I began my people training another warrior while researching Agriculture to quickly grow my population.

3960 Reach the hill - Glad I didn't move north!

3880 Silver! And is that a river beyond that forest?

3720 Silk to the West!

3680 Wine! I have a general idea of the location for my second city.

3600 Worker time.

3480 Going to try for polytheism even though I hear it is a gmable on Prince. Starting Mysticism.

2920 Meet Cyrus today. Seems like a nice chap! I'll do a little more exploring before I decide if he should live or not.

2840 Began another Warrior.

2480 Hello Mansa Musa. Should I kill you? Started another warrior; It should be done just as I grow.

2320 I think I'm going to marry some animals now for more food.

2280 Starting a settler now. Wish us luck in our new home!

2200 That Monty! What a clown. Like I would waste 50,000 slaves on him!

1875 Isabella! And I only just now noticed that I did not found Hinduism. How could I not notice that? I really need to put my wonder movies back on.

1750 Washington keeps giving me the evil eye. I've changed my mind on where to found my second city. It is going to take too long to get the iron working ready to make the gems profitable. Four desert and a mountain is alot to trade off for stone. I could put down on top of the rice to only have three desert, but I lose out on the benefit of farming it and the pigs. If I settled on that lowest wine i could access it early and only have two desert in my fat cross, but then I loss out on that pretty river! They did that just to torture us! I'm redirecting my settlers SW of the stone and researching Masonry. (note: I settled one square SE of the rice near the stone. This city is in the same location as Nottingham shown in Grogs screenshot on page one of this thread. My original plan was one east of where Grogs has York.)

1650 Another Warrior. I think it is time to consider getting some free cities.

1625 Why is Saladin always stroking his beard when he looks at me like that? That makes all six rivals! Founded York and began another Warrior.

1575 I'm turning out a warrior every three turns in London now. I Saladin is the weakest, well except for me, so I'm going to take a couple of my men down to 'borrow' some gold from him.

1475 Accidentally walk on top of some injured men of Saladins instead of declaring war last turn. Now they are healed Bah! Turning research to hunting and archers for defense. Ah it isn't showing odds for saladins nuetral units. I never noticed that before.

1400 Time for a barracks I think.

1100 Lost a stack of four warriors to a single archer today. WTF? I expected two maybe three to die, but all of them? I think i just lost the advantage here.

760 My troops are being slaughtered in what should be fair fights. What are these? Super soldiers? Going for Horseback riding. Considered Horseback riding, but I see no horses.I like Organized religion, but I think it may be too expensive for my first Prince game and Judaism is already founded. Maybe some cottages will help.

480 Why do I always under use my axemen so much? Researching Bronze Working.

300 Mansa Musa, currently in third, has offered me open borders. I think improving my friendship with some of the more powerful will be helpful.

220 2 archers and four warriors vs 2 archers, one with city def II, fully fortified and 20% city buildup. I'll wait one more turn for that other warrior to be ready.

200 Should have attacked, another archer was just built. 100% loses with no enemy injuries. Saladin won't talk peace. He seems to know that the RNG on my machine is borked.

20 Looks like those pigs near York are in the jungle and it was jsut too thin to see. Time to research Iron Working. I'm going to wait on Slavery, I don't think i will be producing anything but armies for some time and I don't need to sacrifice populace for them, yet...

200 Agreed to let that annoying Isabella roam my lands. Beating on the barbs to improve my chances with Salad.

240 Unit costs have halted my research. Last turn I lost 4 of my best units against untrenched barabarians. I have 9 archers sitting outside Medina. These units have drill II, cover or strength. I have to take Medina this turn or die trying. Did someone secretly change the patch level on my machine? Is this how combat works in prince? I've been playing with 1.52 for a few weeks and I have never seen combat like this. I am being utterly destroyed when I have a huge superiority. Not one enemy casualty.

380 Open borders with Cyrus. I'm just desperate to have a friend at this point.

430 Researching Priesthood/Monarchy, what do I have to lose?

440 Izzy sent a missionary to York. I've found god!

460 Pissed off Monty by refusing to kill Izzy. Can't afford a two fronted battle now. Besides her missionary is three moves from bringing judiasm to London.

490 Those pesky barbarians are one city short! I won a battle! I know it is going to hurt, but I kept Khazak. It is just one square off of where I planned to build later and has three population. I think I can turn it profitable as soon as I finish Monarchy. (note: This city is in the same location as Hun shown in Grogs screenshot on page one of this thread)


As of 500AD I have iron, gold, wheat and rice. As soon as I finish Monarchy I will have Wine, when York expands I will have copper and Khazaks expansion will give me cows. When my workers move back to York I will have pigs. I have seen horses, ivory, banannas, fish and silver, but don't expect to have access anytime soon. As soon as I can afford another city I will get gems and sheep. I'll have to do the math to see if the gems would pay for the city themselves. No sign of marble anywhere.

I've learned that I should have stuck to the strategy that was working on noble. I was worried going into this game, being my first prince, and tried to adjust according to many things I had read on these boards recently about winning on Prince. I had incorrporated some of these into my noble games already, but I took too big a bite for this game. I should have stayed peacful like I usually do. I am going to keep going, but have little hope to make a comeback. I'm used to being at least second and have 5-6 cities by this point in noble, here I'm in dead last.

 

[Shillen]

You essentially need a road, coastline, or river that connects your capital to theirs. I too found that it took a long time to get trade routes up and running. I actually had to send a worker into American territory to build the last few sections of road that would connect London and Washington and give me foreign trade routes. I suspect all the jungle is what made the AI so slow to develop them. As for the 'critical connection' I suspect that Mansa built a road to another civ who was already hooked up to several more, thus hooking you all together.

I also had to form the roads myself. I roaded into Saladin's territory to hook up to him. And I roaded up to Isabella's horse tile (that she hadn't connected yet but I knew she would soon). I think I was still lacking Washington and Mansa's trade routes for a while, though.

 

[KevinTMC]

Greetings all,

This is not a proper spoiler post--I do plan to get around to one later--but rather a technical/ethical/rules question. I am posting the question here because to properly describe the situation requires discussion of the locations of iron.

Here's the deal. I had played past 1000AD, and made sure I met all stated requirements, before starting to browse the spoiler thread. I therefore ought to have already known everying useful that could be expected to be revealed.

But no.

Through the awesome creative power of sheer stupidity, I did in fact manage to have something useful revealed to me as I read through the first few pages.

You see, I had become convinced that the diabolical GOTM game-setters had left England bereft of iron. I hadn't spotted any of it anywhere in my territory, no sir; and I couldn't convince anyone to trade me some. Well, thought I, they're making it hard on peaceniks like me this time...there's nothing for it but to buck up and declare war on Saladin. He's got some iron right next to that city just to the south.

So I did conquer the city, and had just hooked it and its iron up to my trade network when I started reading the spoiler thread, and learned that there ought to have been iron...right next to London!

Oh, the humanity!

I immediately figured out what was going on here. Obviously I was the victim of a bizarre, extremely localized computer glitch, because there's no way I could possibly have been so dumb as to have overlooked...

...err...

...yup, there it was. Adjacent to London. Sitting right under a farm I had built, back before I had discovered Iron Working.

Now in my specific situation this time, I don't see how this course of events presents any problems according to the letter or spirit of the GOTM rules. I learned about the iron in London just as I was gaining the use of it from elsewhere anyway; and I have not traded my extra iron to anyone at any time. I suppose there has been a benefit gained from changing my London iron farm to a mine; but this does not prey on my conscience much.

But what if I hadn't just gained control of an alternate source of the same resource? Would I be expected to continue playing as if I hadn't had my stupidity revealed by the spoiler thread? Could I find myself disqualified from the GOTM altogether? Proper guidance (along with any necessary admonitions) from the GOTM staff would be much appreciated.

-- Kevin​

 

[DaviddesJ]

I'm not staff, but I think that once you qualify for the spoiler thread, you're allowed to use whatever information you learn from the thread in your game. (Except for those postings which violate the spoiler guidelines and which will therefore be removed; you should avoid reading those, just as you would avoid reading spoiler discussion of the GOTM posted outside the spoiler thread.)

In the specific case, I don't think there's anything wrong with checking the spoiler thread to see if you've overlooked anything. Of course, spending the same amount of time just examining the map yourself would probably accomplish even more....

 

[Memphus]

My vote goes with DaviddesJ as well, once you qualify anything new you pick up is OK. And also feel the same way on the limiting factors

On a side note: doesn't a message pop up upon discovering a new resource?

I.E. in the upper left hand side
"A new source of Iron has been discovered by London"

But then again I miss those all the time

 

[KevinTMC]

Of course, spending the same amount of time just examining the map yourself would probably accomplish even more....

Um, yes. Yes it would.

If I weren't an idiot.

And you know how you can stare at something for long enough that you don't really see it anymore? (Certainly not like you saw it, and noticed everything about it, for the first time.)

Well, that certainly tends to happen to me in Civ...especially in Epic-length games.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

But then again I miss those all the time

I do too, and totally did here.

Err...I meant...those dumb messages fail to appear due to some obscure computer glitch, all the time. Curse you, Firaxis!

-- Kevin​

 

[DaviddesJ]

And you know how you can stare at something for long enough that you don't really see it anymore?

Sure. But if you press control-R to turn on the resource display, and then you zoom all the way out to the world view, it makes it very hard to miss a resource.
I do this every once in a while, on general principles, even aside from doing it on turns when I discover a new resource (through researching Bronze Working, Iron Working, etc.).

 

[beestar]

Sure. But if you press control-R to turn on the resource display, and then you zoom all the way out to the world view, it makes it very hard to miss a resource.
I do this every once in a while, on general principles, even aside from doing it on turns when I discover a new resource (through researching Bronze Working, Iron Working, etc.).

I miss those pop-ups revealing new resources all the time, too. I just leave Ctrl-R turned on all the time ...

 

[beestar]

240 Unit costs have halted my research. Last turn I lost 4 of my best units against untrenched barabarians. I have 9 archers sitting outside Medina. These units have drill II, cover or strength. I have to take Medina this turn or die trying. Did someone secretly change the patch level on my machine? Is this how combat works in prince? I've been playing with 1.52 for a few weeks and I have never seen combat like this. I am being utterly destroyed when I have a huge superiority. Not one enemy casualty.

Is Medina defended by archers? Those are some pretty tough odds.

Archers don't make very good city assault forces as I learned in a recent game, especially against defending archers who have bonuses from being (i) in a city, (ii) on a hill, (iii) fortified for multiple turns, and (iv) maybe having a few city defender promotions.

I find you pretty much need axemen, or preferably swordsmen, to defeat a city defended by archers. Unless you having massive numbers in your favour, e.g. 3-4 archers against a single defender.