DaviddesJ
Deity
beestar said:
I find the resource "bubbles" cover up too much, if I leave them on all the time. I wish they were a bit smaller. The way they pivot around to reveal the map underneath is sometimes useful, sometimes irritating.
GOTM-02: First Spoiler:
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
I find the resource "bubbles" cover up too much, if I leave them on all the time. I wish they were a bit smaller. The way they pivot around to reveal the map underneath is sometimes useful, sometimes irritating.
I must have missed that ctrl+R in the instructions. Thanks! I too miss half those pop ups myself. I even missed the fact that the pigs I had in York were in jungle until i tried to build a farm without ironwork. Sometimes one thing will cover another like that. I say don't feel bad. You meet all the requirments. If it was that cut and dry they would not allow any spoiler.
@beestar - Yes I know they make very good defenders, but I have had good fortune previously (in 1.52) with superior numbers attacking defending archers. Only one had garrison though they had been dug in. At one point I did have 3 attackers for each defender with more promotions including some with cover and others with city attack. I am focusing on defense and building up axemen/swordsmen until I am sure I can be sure of my chances.
I know combat is a lot different than Civ III. What really upset me is that with 2 to 1 odds I did no damage at all in one fight and only knocked them down by 10% in another. From past experience I was sure I would knock out at least one in each of those battles. It was having four major battles with superior numbers and and losing each one utterly that was frustrating.
@beestar - Yes I know they make very good defenders, but I have had good fortune previously (in 1.52) with superior numbers attacking defending archers. Only one had garrison though they had been dug in. At one point I did have 3 attackers for each defender with more promotions including some with cover and others with city attack. I am focusing on defense and building up axemen/swordsmen until I am sure I can be sure of my chances.
I know combat is a lot different than Civ III. What really upset me is that with 2 to 1 odds I did no damage at all in one fight and only knocked them down by 10% in another. From past experience I was sure I would knock out at least one in each of those battles. It was having four major battles with superior numbers and and losing each one utterly that was frustrating.
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Hi Flendon,
In Civ4, you need to pay attention to the specific bonuses that unit types get against certain other types or in certain situations. These can make a huge difference.
In Civ4, you need to pay attention to the specific bonuses that unit types get against certain other types or in certain situations. These can make a huge difference.
Jesusin GOTM2. Objective: Conquest (domination could be faster, but I want to try for once). First game on Epic.
Settled in place for a GP farm. Producing worker. Research: Agriculture for the worker. Then AH. Worker farmed corn and pastured.
Exploration: very bad luck, I lost a Warrior as he found a Goody containing 2 barbarian warriors. The problem is I was on a +75% defense tile, so he should have killed both easily. A Spanish warrior made my next warrior unable to explore (city protection). So my exploration was severely hampered.
Techs: Agri-AH-BW (revolt to slavery while having a single city)- Myst-Wheel-Sail-Pott-Wri. I ignored religion.
The most important decision: It´s 1800BC, my second city is 5S1E. I have no archery, copper south wouldn’t allow me to use the gold. Should I go for archery? I decide to settle 3rd city on top of NE Copper, so it is quickly connected as I expect the barb hordes coming soon. It is a bad place for a (3rd) city.
My best city was Alamana, settled by barbs, W of capital, where others enjoyed it too. Tried to “lend” a worker from arabs that was connecting horses. It run away and then 2 came together with an archer, well done AI!
1000BC stats: 3cities, 7pop, 2worker, 1Axe,3War. Copp, 0Lux, 2health. 14fpt, 7hpt, 8bpt,+8gpt, 3cpt. Box: 59f, 53h, 241b, 49g, 208c. 1Ligh, 1Gra, 2 Barr, 1 Obe. 10Techs: 5 1st tier,3 2nd, 1 3rd. 1t to Wri. No religion. 6 hours real-time. Whip was widely used in capital, as it is so food-rich. Not too much deforestation.
1AD stats: 6cities, 20pop, 5worker, 1Swo, 9Axe,2 War. Iron, Copp, Stone, almost Marmol, 1Lux, 5health. 16fpt, 34hpt, 30bpt,-3gpt, 11cpt, 0GPPpt. Box: xf, xh, xb, 55g, 595c, 0GPP. 0WW,0NW, 2Barr,4Gra, 2lighth, 2Libr, 4Obe. 12Techs: 5 1st tier,4 2nd, 1 3rd, 2 4th. No religion. 13 hours real-time.
In 200AD I had the Pyramids and revolted to representation. This was huge.
Settled in place for a GP farm. Producing worker. Research: Agriculture for the worker. Then AH. Worker farmed corn and pastured.
Exploration: very bad luck, I lost a Warrior as he found a Goody containing 2 barbarian warriors. The problem is I was on a +75% defense tile, so he should have killed both easily. A Spanish warrior made my next warrior unable to explore (city protection). So my exploration was severely hampered.
Techs: Agri-AH-BW (revolt to slavery while having a single city)- Myst-Wheel-Sail-Pott-Wri. I ignored religion.
The most important decision: It´s 1800BC, my second city is 5S1E. I have no archery, copper south wouldn’t allow me to use the gold. Should I go for archery? I decide to settle 3rd city on top of NE Copper, so it is quickly connected as I expect the barb hordes coming soon. It is a bad place for a (3rd) city.
My best city was Alamana, settled by barbs, W of capital, where others enjoyed it too. Tried to “lend” a worker from arabs that was connecting horses. It run away and then 2 came together with an archer, well done AI!
1000BC stats: 3cities, 7pop, 2worker, 1Axe,3War. Copp, 0Lux, 2health. 14fpt, 7hpt, 8bpt,+8gpt, 3cpt. Box: 59f, 53h, 241b, 49g, 208c. 1Ligh, 1Gra, 2 Barr, 1 Obe. 10Techs: 5 1st tier,3 2nd, 1 3rd. 1t to Wri. No religion. 6 hours real-time. Whip was widely used in capital, as it is so food-rich. Not too much deforestation.
1AD stats: 6cities, 20pop, 5worker, 1Swo, 9Axe,2 War. Iron, Copp, Stone, almost Marmol, 1Lux, 5health. 16fpt, 34hpt, 30bpt,-3gpt, 11cpt, 0GPPpt. Box: xf, xh, xb, 55g, 595c, 0GPP. 0WW,0NW, 2Barr,4Gra, 2lighth, 2Libr, 4Obe. 12Techs: 5 1st tier,4 2nd, 1 3rd, 2 4th. No religion. 13 hours real-time.
In 200AD I had the Pyramids and revolted to representation. This was huge.
I founded on the spot. I went for Worker/BW start. I got Stonehendge but missed oracle by a couple turns. After missing Oracle and therefore Confucianism, I use the Stonehendge city generated a GP to get Christianity.
By this time I was beginning to think of going for a Cultural Victory. Lack of IW was not helping my happiness situation. I had to divert from the top techs to get IW and Monarchy to fix that. After that I went back to the cultural techs.
I also missed the Pryamids. The gold from the lost wonders did allow me to keep my research at a reasonable level, though.
Note about the images: I turn on the unit icons to illustrate the position of units outside my border areas. I only had an occasional incursion. I should have had a few more but other than a couple pillaged resources nothing major happenned.
Spoiler log thru 1AD :
By this time I was beginning to think of going for a Cultural Victory. Lack of IW was not helping my happiness situation. I had to divert from the top techs to get IW and Monarchy to fix that. After that I went back to the cultural techs.
I also missed the Pryamids. The gold from the lost wonders did allow me to keep my research at a reasonable level, though.
Spoiler log 1AD thru 520AD :
Note about the images: I turn on the unit icons to illustrate the position of units outside my border areas. I only had an occasional incursion. I should have had a few more but other than a couple pillaged resources nothing major happenned.
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tomasson_lb89
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3
Sucking so hard!! But It's Fun!!
hey all,
i am tomas, tomasson lundsberg. i just got this game a week ago and downloaded my first gotm but man this is so tough. i am not yet in 1 ad (180 bc) and already i am last in score. is prince the hardest level all the time or what!!! Damn! But anyway I am enjoying and learning a lot from the game. Well I think the worst part of it all was my city placement. Now I am too late grabbing new cities and to my left is Montezuma and to my right is Saladin. Grr, and I can't even declare war (no copper access though city close to it but city doesn't have culture to get it!! Naughty Nottingham!!). I don't have any wonder even. What should I do now? Please give me some tips!!!
I have not yet gained the southern copper or the western pigs and such. should get them as i am building obelisk in nottingham. i am thinking of going military now but without copper it will be hell. plus there is no horse anywhere. did creator remove it intentionally or what? but anyway no blame though - very fun game. losing can be fun, hehe. if its competitive that is!!
i think one of the fundamental flaws with my approach is i played too fast. i did the worthless micromanagemernt part ok (nice imrpovements and trade networks) but the real deep city placement thinking part wrong. comes from playing too many rts i think. i have so little patience anyway im gonna finish this game and go for another gotm somewhere! can you tell me if there are other sites which hoist such gotms.
my friend tells me i need to concentrate more and play with deeper thinking. i don't think i really would think deeply for a game (c'mon its not work!! games are supposed to be relaxing; but this gotm is kinda above my level LOL) but seems like some good strategic thinking is very important. also shows how good a 'STRATEGY' game civ 4 is. first to this series and this is so good aha!!!
btw thanks to everyone for this game. i am yet to read your posts (spolier for me) but i think its quite fun. however I thought more people would play gotms. i am pretty sure more than 1 million ppl bought civ 4, in fact CLOSE TO 2 MILLION SO WHY ONLY 623 ENTRIES FOR THE FIRST GOTM IS IT TOO TOUGH OR SOMNETHING? dONT TELL ME , I DO FIND IT TOUGH BUT WHAT IS THE FUN IF IT IS EASY?? ENJOyINg MY SURVIVAL. WILL KEEP UPDATED!! (sorry caps lock got pressed))
hey all,
i am tomas, tomasson lundsberg. i just got this game a week ago and downloaded my first gotm but man this is so tough. i am not yet in 1 ad (180 bc) and already i am last in score. is prince the hardest level all the time or what!!! Damn! But anyway I am enjoying and learning a lot from the game. Well I think the worst part of it all was my city placement. Now I am too late grabbing new cities and to my left is Montezuma and to my right is Saladin. Grr, and I can't even declare war (no copper access though city close to it but city doesn't have culture to get it!! Naughty Nottingham!!). I don't have any wonder even. What should I do now? Please give me some tips!!!
I have not yet gained the southern copper or the western pigs and such. should get them as i am building obelisk in nottingham. i am thinking of going military now but without copper it will be hell. plus there is no horse anywhere. did creator remove it intentionally or what? but anyway no blame though - very fun game. losing can be fun, hehe. if its competitive that is!!
i think one of the fundamental flaws with my approach is i played too fast. i did the worthless micromanagemernt part ok (nice imrpovements and trade networks) but the real deep city placement thinking part wrong. comes from playing too many rts i think. i have so little patience anyway im gonna finish this game and go for another gotm somewhere! can you tell me if there are other sites which hoist such gotms.
my friend tells me i need to concentrate more and play with deeper thinking. i don't think i really would think deeply for a game (c'mon its not work!! games are supposed to be relaxing; but this gotm is kinda above my level LOL) but seems like some good strategic thinking is very important. also shows how good a 'STRATEGY' game civ 4 is. first to this series and this is so good aha!!!
btw thanks to everyone for this game. i am yet to read your posts (spolier for me) but i think its quite fun. however I thought more people would play gotms. i am pretty sure more than 1 million ppl bought civ 4, in fact CLOSE TO 2 MILLION SO WHY ONLY 623 ENTRIES FOR THE FIRST GOTM IS IT TOO TOUGH OR SOMNETHING? dONT TELL ME , I DO FIND IT TOUGH BUT WHAT IS THE FUN IF IT IS EASY?? ENJOyINg MY SURVIVAL. WILL KEEP UPDATED!! (sorry caps lock got pressed))
Redbad
should have shaved
tomasson_lb89 said:
When having no copper, look for iron. There are horses to the south.
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
Going for a cultural victory.
The Opening (aka The Chopping)
I heavily abused the strategies of CET and chop-and-swap. To be sure I don't mess up, I always use [Alt+C] [\] [space] as my chop command.
3240BC: Worker #1
3200BC: Bronze Working
2800BC: Worker #2
2800BC: Agriculture
2760BC: Warrior
2680BC: Warrior
2480BC: Worker #3
2360BC: The Wheel
2280BC: Settler
2080BC: Worker #4
2000BC: Pottery
2000BC: Warrior
1950BC: Worker #5
1925BC: Worker #6
If you look carefully some trees have survived around London. But that is because I am going to chop Stonehenge soon.
Research
My first research goal was to grab all the worker techs.
Bronze -> Agriculture -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Iron Working
Then I unlocked the early wonders.
Mysticism -> Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Writing -> Code of Laws (free from Oracle) -> Animal Husbandry -> Masonry
Then I went for the late religions and the free Artist.
Monotheism -> Theology -> Alphabet -> Drama -> Philosophy -> Music
The Big 3 Cities
I wanted my culture cities to have high commerce potential, but production (mines and forests) was important too. That way they could build temples and cathedrals and wonders at a decent rate.
A couple high-food sites were too good, and I made them GPP factories instead.
London - Stonehenge (1225BC)
Nottingham - Oracle (900BC)
Canterbury - Pyramids (200BC), Parthenon (60AD), Sistine Chapel (460AD)
I picked Code of Laws as the free tech so I could start Artist production immediately. I made sure Stonehenge and Oracle never produced a useless prophet because they were always behind the GPP curve.
The Support Cities
It's painful trying to build all the cathedrals with only 9 cities, so I expanded aggressively. I didn't have many barbarian problems, since I quickly placed settlers and captured cities before the barb axemen appeared. My settlers were escorted by axemen, and I would chop a new axeman once the city was built. I didn't bother with barracks because I had no plans to attack the AIs. I used a couple swordmen to capture barb cities.
Attached are some images of my expansion.
The Opening (aka The Chopping)
I heavily abused the strategies of CET and chop-and-swap. To be sure I don't mess up, I always use [Alt+C] [\] [space] as my chop command.
3240BC: Worker #1
3200BC: Bronze Working
2800BC: Worker #2
2800BC: Agriculture
2760BC: Warrior
2680BC: Warrior
2480BC: Worker #3
2360BC: The Wheel
2280BC: Settler
2080BC: Worker #4
2000BC: Pottery
2000BC: Warrior
1950BC: Worker #5
1925BC: Worker #6
If you look carefully some trees have survived around London. But that is because I am going to chop Stonehenge soon.
Research
My first research goal was to grab all the worker techs.
Bronze -> Agriculture -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Iron Working
Then I unlocked the early wonders.
Mysticism -> Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Writing -> Code of Laws (free from Oracle) -> Animal Husbandry -> Masonry
Then I went for the late religions and the free Artist.
Monotheism -> Theology -> Alphabet -> Drama -> Philosophy -> Music
The Big 3 Cities
I wanted my culture cities to have high commerce potential, but production (mines and forests) was important too. That way they could build temples and cathedrals and wonders at a decent rate.
A couple high-food sites were too good, and I made them GPP factories instead.
London - Stonehenge (1225BC)
Nottingham - Oracle (900BC)
Canterbury - Pyramids (200BC), Parthenon (60AD), Sistine Chapel (460AD)
I picked Code of Laws as the free tech so I could start Artist production immediately. I made sure Stonehenge and Oracle never produced a useless prophet because they were always behind the GPP curve.
The Support Cities
It's painful trying to build all the cathedrals with only 9 cities, so I expanded aggressively. I didn't have many barbarian problems, since I quickly placed settlers and captured cities before the barb axemen appeared. My settlers were escorted by axemen, and I would chop a new axeman once the city was built. I didn't bother with barracks because I had no plans to attack the AIs. I used a couple swordmen to capture barb cities.
Attached are some images of my expansion.
Attachments
tomasson_lb89
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3
Redbad said:
yea redbad i saw the horses close to barcelona but as of yet don't have enough military muscle to take them over.
davemcw, i really like your chop strategy (took me a while to figure out chopping produce shield) but if you chop too much don't you suffer from health problems? how do you work that out? build aques or use food (pig, corn)?
UPDATE from my game: Ok now I've another city thx to the barbs. Iam steadily gaining some momentum and have a decent army. however still a long way to go if i want to survive in this game. i will strategically attack some enemies to gain resources like horse. now i've iron (430 bc) and with it hopefully my military will be more effective.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Those resources that are marked by a red circle in a white ball, e.g. sheep, wheat, fish on above map, give you health points reducing health problems in your cities.
It seems to me that happiness is usually a bigger problem than health (at least I got such impression based on these two games). Forests do not affect the balance much. In my game my population was limited by happiness, not by health, although I chopped everything.
Talking about chopping and health – you are not limited by chopping forests only in your territory. If you want to leave workable forests in the vicinity of your city go outside of your territory and chop there. Just do not forget that there might be wide animals or worse.
It seems to me that happiness is usually a bigger problem than health (at least I got such impression based on these two games). Forests do not affect the balance much. In my game my population was limited by happiness, not by health, although I chopped everything.
Talking about chopping and health – you are not limited by chopping forests only in your territory. If you want to leave workable forests in the vicinity of your city go outside of your territory and chop there. Just do not forget that there might be wide animals or worse.
tomasson_lb89
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3
my perception concerning forest chopping is also changing. except for a few exceptions in most cases forest chopping can actually speed things up drastically. the benefits probably outweigh the harms. in fact rushing settlers and getting them over to '+' resources can really offset the cutting loses in health. my conservation of forests was an idea 'gleaned' from velociryx's articles over at apolyton. however since then especially while playing this gotm my perception has changed. anyway, i guess i'm yet to settle on a definite strategy on chopping... judgement is the key i guess. actually in this gotm i still have vast swaths of forests left around my cities and am not sure what to do - chop them for a good wonder or leave them as is - or use them for improvements. i really need to have a 'competitive' advantage' in this game.
ufff, this gotm is so long. i still have 400 turns left, and we only have 6 days left! i am not one who plays for long hours!
Hope I can finish the game.Okay dave, I have a couple of questions.
First off what does cet stand for. My guess was chop every turn but i've never heard it before. Second, with your rapid expansion, I know you are taking a huge hit in city maintenance. Thus, the 30% science bar in your screenshots. Were you not worried about techs b/c of your culture win goal?
*edit*
My two cents on chopping. (monarch difficulty) If my city has access to freshwater, or a harbor, or I'm expansive, I usually chop everything. Otherwise, I leave 2 or sometimes 4 choice forests.
First off what does cet stand for. My guess was chop every turn but i've never heard it before. Second, with your rapid expansion, I know you are taking a huge hit in city maintenance. Thus, the 30% science bar in your screenshots. Were you not worried about techs b/c of your culture win goal?
*edit*
My two cents on chopping. (monarch difficulty) If my city has access to freshwater, or a harbor, or I'm expansive, I usually chop everything. Otherwise, I leave 2 or sometimes 4 choice forests.
CET stands for Chop Every Tree. It was the title of one of the strategy guides around here. From my reading here and experience I go with a strategic chppoing strategy myself. I try to leave myself some trees for the mid game when possible and with luck some of the empty squares will have forests regrow in them. From my experience for a forest to regrow it must have at least 1 forest square next to it and I think the more squares the better the odds, but I'm not sure yet. I will usually leave 2-4 trees in my city depending on other health resources and the production goals of that city. And from the OCC (One City Challenge) game I am playing now I can say that you get hammers for forests 7-8 squares out (didn't count exactly I think it was 4 outside my radius I stopped getting anything), but it reduces with each square.ajil said:
ExplodingFist
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2005
- Messages
- 22
Do you have to finish the game in order to submit?
I started early enough for this GOTM2 and I'm currently in the 900 ADs and doing ok. But real life has got in the way and my calendar is full. I might not finish the game in time being epic and all. So I just wonder if I can/should send in my game in whatever state it is come submission date. I know I would not be able to compete, but it might have some value for statistical analysis as far as opening strategy. I know you guys have done that in the past with GOTM.
I started early enough for this GOTM2 and I'm currently in the 900 ADs and doing ok. But real life has got in the way and my calendar is full. I might not finish the game in time being epic and all. So I just wonder if I can/should send in my game in whatever state it is come submission date. I know I would not be able to compete, but it might have some value for statistical analysis as far as opening strategy. I know you guys have done that in the past with GOTM.
You can retire from the game, I think, and if you make a save and you get a Civ4Replay file in your \My Games\Sid Meier's Civ4\Replays directory you can upload these two using the "Retired" option in the pop up menu on the submission page.
hendrikszoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
- Messages
- 60
At first I have to say that my favorite traits are Philosophical and Financial. The Philosophical trait supports Great People farming and the Financial trait increases your income. Both, Great People and Gold, can be transformed into Research Beakers. So a very fast research, which is essential for my games, is possible.
Because Elizabeth combined my two favorite traits, I choose her for my HoF attempts (it were only attempts). For these attempts I also choose a Lakes map. So in my opinion a really high score was possible on this map.
I can only underline what Civ Steve and bradleyfeanor said in the Cheat thread. And most of it (goal, strategy) is to decide in the first turns. Also the early "little decisions" resulting from the choosen strategy are more important than decisions at the end of the game. To understand me correctly: also wrong decisions at the end of a game can lead into a disaster. But wrong decisions - maybe based on a wrong strategy - in the beginning have sustainable consequences. E.g. the wrong choice of the place for your capital can take all chances to win a Medal or a Speed Award. Because setting an overall goal, finding the best strategy to reach it and decisions, especially early decisions, are so important for the whole game, I will give this time a very detailed analysis of my first turns.
Fixing of Goal and Strategy
Because milking is soooo easy,
I tried it again. The advantage of this goal was that I could check if the improvements I outlined in my second 4otM1 spoiler really fit. To correct a misunderstanding: In my opinion I didn't milk my 4otM1 game, I only tried to milk it, but I failed.
Because not everybody read every post, I will again outline this strategy:
- Attack of other Civilizations starts with Knights (Guilds)
- Fast research to get Biology as soon as possible
- After Biology, Military Tradition (Cavalry) is next research goal
- Stop of conquer when around 50% of the world is occupied
- Building of Farms on all Plains and Grassland tiles and Windmills on all Hill tiles
- When score stops growing, claiming a conquest victory by wiping the last AI from the map.
Different goals can lead to completely different strategies. You can see this when you compare this strategy with the one of DaveMcW who is going for a Cultural Victory. But also at least at the beginning the ways to different goals can be identically. So if my goal would be an early Domination, Conquest or Spaceship Victory I would use the same strategy I will explain in the following. To win the Culture Award this strategy is not very helpful and the second part maybe prevent a Diplomatic Victory. At least it makes it very difficult to reach a Diplomatic Victory.
Founding the Capital
The first important decision - in my eyes it is the most important one of the whole game - you have to make, is the decision concerning the placement of your capital. Before every decision, you should try to get as much information as possible. So the first unit I move is always the Warrior - or the Scout - and never, never the Settler. Before I decide anything concerning my capital, I have to decide in which direction my Warrior will go. If there is a Hill which can be reached by one move - like in 4otM1 - then I prefer - only prefer, because there are very few situations thinkable in which I would act in a different manner - to send the Warrior on the Hill.
In this game there was no Hill reachable by one move. So the decision was a little bit difficult. The tiles North, South and Southeast of the Warriors position are Lake tiles. To move Northeast or East would not give any further information. So only three possible moves were reasonable: Northwest, West, Southwest. In the North you could see Ice and Tundra. So in the North a good place for the capital was very unlikely. But in the South you can see three Plain Hills - later I realized that one of them is a Dessert Hill - and I believe their advantages (better defence, additional Shield) are well-known. And there is also a disadvantage of the Settler's starting position: it is - after chopping the Forests - a little bit "Hammerless". So I send my Warrior Southeast in the hope to find something on one of the two Hills (the Western and the middle one).
But on the two Hills was nothing, only a Plains Stone Hill in the Southwest came in sight. But this Plains Stone Hill was too far away, had no fresh water and was surrounded by Desert tiles. So I decided to settle in place getting the advantages of the Wheat and the Sheep.
Technologies to Research
The decision concerning the Technology which you should research first, depends on the environment of your capital, the starting technologies of the Civilization you play and last but not least on your goal. So I have no exact rule like "always start with Agriculture, followed by Hunting, etc.". But because, as said above, fast research is essential for me, I have something like a general rule for milking games: First research target is always Writing.
But there are six different ways to research Writing. Because I forgot two of them in my 4otM1 spoiler, now I list them all:
1. Mysticism - Polytheism - Priesthood - Writing
2. Mysticism - Meditation - Priesthood - Writing
3. Fishing - The Wheel - Pottery - Writing
4. Agriculture - The Wheel - Pottery - Writing
5. Agriculture - Animal Husbandry - Writing
6. Hunting - Animal Husbandry - Writing
In this case the decision was very easy. To get the full benefit of a Wheat tile you need Agriculture and to get the full benefit of a Sheep tile you need Animal Husbandry. So the first technology to research was Agriculture, followed by Animal Husbandry and Writing. To get the Library which becomes available with Writing you have - especially in this environment - to accelerate the build-up by chopping some Forests. So next Technology to research would be Bronze Working.
I like it to get The Wheel early, but on this map it made no sense to research it by myself. I would get it very cheap and very early - after the research of Alphabet - from one of the AIs.
First Units
I remember a discussion concerning what should be the first priority: a Worker or Population growth of the capital. To train a Worker - or a Settler - at first will stop the Population growth for a long time. Nevertheless I believe on nearly all maps this disadvantage will be compensated in a very short time by the improvements built by the Worker. Especially on this map, to train a Worker at first was a "must" for me. Second trained unit was a Warrior. I didn't train this Warrior for defence reason or to explore the map. This Warrior got another job. Later I will explain it. The third unit was again a Warrior. This Warrior was garrisoned in London to prevent "We fear for our safety..." unhappiness.
Citizen Distribution
After all I wrote above (fast research is essential), this decision seems to be clear: The tile where my Citizen will work can only be one of the Lake tiles (2 Food + 3 Gold). But it is not so easy as it looks like. There is a strong dependence between Research and Population. Normally a higher Population allows a faster Research. This game is a good example to explain this inner game mechanic.
The City Squares of London consist of three Lake tiles (2F,3G), one Ocean tile (1F,3G), one Plains tile (1F,1H), one Forest/Grassland tile (2F,1H), one Plains/Wheat tile (2F,1H) and one Grassland tile (2F). To make my writing a little bit more easy I will use from now the following terminology: If an alternative A is definitely and in every respect better than an alternative B, I will say "A dominates B". So in this case a Lake tile dominates an Ocean tile - 2F,3G is without any doubts better than 1F,3G - and the Forest/Grassland respectively the Plains/Wheat tile dominates the Plains and the Grassland tile. So there is only a decision between two alternatives - 2F,3G or 2F,1H - necessary.
Now maybe some players will say "Two and three is five and five is more than three. So I will use one of the Lake tiles." But it is not so easy. Nobody - besides he is really weak in arithmetic - would say "Two ten dollar notes and three one dollar notes are more than two ten dollar notes and a five dollar note." And we are in a similar situation. We should not compare apples (Gold) and oranges (Hammers).
To explain the context I will use a comparison of two procedures. The rule of procedure A is very easy: Let work your Citizens every time on the tiles where the sum of Food, Gold and Hammers is maximized. Using this rule, the first Citizen works on one of the Lake tiles.
For procedure B doesn't exist an easy rule like for procedure A. Procedure B is the procedure I used in my game. I have to explain it decision by decision. I started with the Wheat/Plains tile. In 3400BC I changed to one of the Lake tiles. This change I have to explain.
Without the change the Worker would have been trained at the end of 3280BC and could make his first move in 3240BC. In the same year (3240BC) he would have started to irrigate the Wheat tile. He would have finished this job in 2960BC and would have been able to start the build-up of the Pasture in 2880BC. But at this time there are three turns necessary to research Animal Husbandry. With the above mentioned change my game play became much more balanced. The Worker became available in 3200BC (one turn later than without change) and started immediately to irrigate the Wheat. Next trained unit was a Warrior.
In 3120BC I changed again the working place of my Citizen. New working place was the Sheep tile (3F). With this change I reached a perfect balance: Animal Husbandry was researched in the same turn when the Worker stand on the Sheep tile, ready to build the Pasture (2840BC). When the Wheat tile was irrigated (2920BC) the Citizens working place was changed again. because the irrigated Wheat tile (5F,1H) dominates the Sheep tile, his new working place was the irrigated Wheat tile. From this moment for Citizen distribution the rule of procedure A was used.
Next technology to research was Writing. In 2840BC the Population of London increased to two. Following the rule, the working place of the new Citizen was one of the Lake tiles. In 2720BC the first Warrior was trained in London. Now followed the training of the garrison Warrior. In 2640BC the Pasture was built. The working place of the second Citzen became the Sheep tile. In 2600BC the third Citizen (working place: Lake tile) and in 2400BC the fourth Citizen (also Lake tile) were born.
In 2240BC Writing was discovered and the research of Bronze Working started. Also the build-up of the Library has started. After reaching a Population of five (2200BC) the Citizen distribution was completely changed. A further increase of Population would not make any sense, because at this time the Population of Londons was restricted to five. Every additional Citizen would beome a resisting Citizen. So the new Citizen distribution was: First, second and third Citzen worked on a Lake tile, fourth and fith Citizen worked on an Ocean tile. With this distribution Bronze Working was discovered in 1925BC, one turn before it was discovered when I would have used procedure A.
The results are summarized in the three following graphics. The first graphic shows the cumulated Research (Beakers), the second one the cumulated Food (Breads) and the last one the cumulated Production (Hammers). In all three graphics the red function shows procedure A (2F,3G) and the green one procedure B (2F,1H).
The result is very interesting: The Food is more or less the same (the four Breads difference doesn't matter because the Population should not further grow). But there is a sinificant difference in Research (29 Beakers) and Production (15 Hammers). In both aspects procedure B is the better procedure. With procedure B I got Bronze Working one turn earlier and the first trained Warrior was available five turns earlier. The second trained Warrior doesn't matter because he is only used as Garrison Warrior.
It is possible to find out the best procedure by using some paper sheets and a pencil. I did it in another manner: After the launch of the Pre-Game discussion thread I started a game with the same settings. Before I made the first move I started the WorldBuilder, used it to generate somewhere an identically starting position like the one shown on the starting screenshot and saved the game. This saved game was the basis for all my tests. So I could predict the appearance of my first Great Scientist (1450BC) very exactly (predicted 1425BC; see my post in the Pre-Game discussion thread). The difference of one turn is explained like following: Using a robbed worker it was possible to finish the chop of the last Forest needed to complete the Library one turn earlier -> Libary finished one turn earlier -> Two Scientist available one turn earlier -> Great Scientist available one turn earlier.
There is one thing, I do not really understand: e.g. in 2000BC in London I had a total research of 24 Beakers and London was the only city I had at this time. But at the end of the turn the cumulated Research Beakers increased from 144 to 174 and I have no idea where the six additional Beakers came from. These "ghost" Beakers didn't appear only in 2000BC. They appeared in different numbers all the time. It started 4000BC with one "ghost" Beaker. After the research of Agriculture the number of "ghost" Beakers increased to three and so on.
Worker Robbery
Building Workers - or Settlers - lead to a stagnation of Population growth and Population growth is the key of the game. So Workers are very, very worthful and the following question is self-evident: How can I get Workers without stagnation of Population growth? The answer to this question is also obvious: You have to rob them from other Civilizations.
I robbed Workers in a lot of test games and it seems that it is at least in the low und middle difficulty levels (until Monarch) more or less riskless. Because of the slow development in Civ IV, before 2000BC the AI will not have enough units for a counter attack. There is only one small risk: If the exploring Warrior of the attacked Civilization is close to your homeland and you have only one Warrior to defend your city/ies then it is possible that this unfriendly Warrior will destroy some of your improvements. But it seems to be a really small risk. It happened never in my test games.
After twelve or fifteen turns you can make peace and send again a Warrior close to the AI city to wait for the next Worker. If the attacked AI has one or more Archers it is possible that your Worker Robber, the Warrior, is killed before he can escape. The Worker will always escape because he his faster. In the case you have lost a Warrior to get peace is not so easy. The attacked AI wants to get something (City, Technology, etc.). For me this is not a problem because I research Alphabet very early. So in the worst case - Warrior killed - I get a valuable Worker for a worthless technology (Remember: the attacked Civilization is very backwarded).
Differently from Civilization III in Civilization IV the performance of a robbbed Worker is the same like the one of a Worker trained by yourself.
To get additional Workers is not the only advantage. After loosing two Workers the respective Civilizations are very backwarded. So later it was very easy to wipe them from the map.
In this game I robbed four Workers, two from the Americans and two from the Arabians. The starting Warrior and the first Warrior I trained were used to rob the Workers. To find capitals of other Civilizations very fast, you can not use circle exploration. You have to send your Warriors in one direction.
Last point: You should not do this in games where your goal is a Diplomatic Victory.
Research Path
3520BC Agriculture
2880BC Animal Husbandry
2240BC Writing
1925BC Bronze Working
1425BC Alphabet
1400BC The Wheel (from AI)
1400BC Mysticism (from AI)
1400BC Hunting (from AI)
1400BC Pottery (from AI)
1375BC Archery (from AI)
1225BC Iron Working
1125BC Polytheism
1400BC Masonry (from AI)
1050BC Priesthood
940BC Sailing
800BC Code of Laws
780BC Civil Service (from The Oracle)
700BC Literature
440BC Metal Casting
440BC Mathematics (from AI)
260BC Meditation (from AI)
240BC Currency
1AD two turns to Philosophy
This time I decided to take Civil Service for free. Because of Elizabeths Philosophical trait Philosophy was not so important like in 4otM1.
I really built two Cottages on the two river tiles inside the capital squares. At the end of the game the Towns developed from the Cottages were replaced by Farms.
I founded my second research center (York, 1550BC) close to the Gems. The next two cities were founded on the Marble (Nottingham, 920BC) and the Stone (Hastings, 760BC). Additionally I conquered a Barbarian city (Sarmatian, founded in 1000BC, captured in 180BC).
Wonders, Great People and Revolutions
1450BC Merit Ptah (born in London, used for Academy in London)
860BC Xi Ling Shi (born in London, used for Academy in York)
800BC The Oracle (completed in York)
780BC Bureaucracy
660BC Conversion to Confucianism
560BC The Great Library (completed in London)
540BC The Pyramids (completed in Hastings)
520BC Representation
220BC Nabu-rimanni (born in London, joined London)
1AD Status
At the end of my first spoiler I publish the status at 1AD comparing it this time with my status in 4otM1:
To compare the Beakers I have normalized them on the base of 4otM1. Comparing my 4otM2 results with my 4otM1 results at 1AD, it seems to be obvious that my start this time was not so good than the one of the game before (4otM1 start dominates 4otM2 start). But I say it again: you should never compare apples and oranges.
Because Elizabeth combined my two favorite traits, I choose her for my HoF attempts (it were only attempts). For these attempts I also choose a Lakes map. So in my opinion a really high score was possible on this map.
bradleyfeanor said:
I can only underline what Civ Steve and bradleyfeanor said in the Cheat thread. And most of it (goal, strategy) is to decide in the first turns. Also the early "little decisions" resulting from the choosen strategy are more important than decisions at the end of the game. To understand me correctly: also wrong decisions at the end of a game can lead into a disaster. But wrong decisions - maybe based on a wrong strategy - in the beginning have sustainable consequences. E.g. the wrong choice of the place for your capital can take all chances to win a Medal or a Speed Award. Because setting an overall goal, finding the best strategy to reach it and decisions, especially early decisions, are so important for the whole game, I will give this time a very detailed analysis of my first turns.
Fixing of Goal and Strategy
Because milking is soooo easy,
I tried it again. The advantage of this goal was that I could check if the improvements I outlined in my second 4otM1 spoiler really fit. To correct a misunderstanding: In my opinion I didn't milk my 4otM1 game, I only tried to milk it, but I failed. Because not everybody read every post, I will again outline this strategy:
- Attack of other Civilizations starts with Knights (Guilds)
- Fast research to get Biology as soon as possible
- After Biology, Military Tradition (Cavalry) is next research goal
- Stop of conquer when around 50% of the world is occupied
- Building of Farms on all Plains and Grassland tiles and Windmills on all Hill tiles
- When score stops growing, claiming a conquest victory by wiping the last AI from the map.
Different goals can lead to completely different strategies. You can see this when you compare this strategy with the one of DaveMcW who is going for a Cultural Victory. But also at least at the beginning the ways to different goals can be identically. So if my goal would be an early Domination, Conquest or Spaceship Victory I would use the same strategy I will explain in the following. To win the Culture Award this strategy is not very helpful and the second part maybe prevent a Diplomatic Victory. At least it makes it very difficult to reach a Diplomatic Victory.
Founding the Capital
The first important decision - in my eyes it is the most important one of the whole game - you have to make, is the decision concerning the placement of your capital. Before every decision, you should try to get as much information as possible. So the first unit I move is always the Warrior - or the Scout - and never, never the Settler. Before I decide anything concerning my capital, I have to decide in which direction my Warrior will go. If there is a Hill which can be reached by one move - like in 4otM1 - then I prefer - only prefer, because there are very few situations thinkable in which I would act in a different manner - to send the Warrior on the Hill.
In this game there was no Hill reachable by one move. So the decision was a little bit difficult. The tiles North, South and Southeast of the Warriors position are Lake tiles. To move Northeast or East would not give any further information. So only three possible moves were reasonable: Northwest, West, Southwest. In the North you could see Ice and Tundra. So in the North a good place for the capital was very unlikely. But in the South you can see three Plain Hills - later I realized that one of them is a Dessert Hill - and I believe their advantages (better defence, additional Shield) are well-known. And there is also a disadvantage of the Settler's starting position: it is - after chopping the Forests - a little bit "Hammerless". So I send my Warrior Southeast in the hope to find something on one of the two Hills (the Western and the middle one).
But on the two Hills was nothing, only a Plains Stone Hill in the Southwest came in sight. But this Plains Stone Hill was too far away, had no fresh water and was surrounded by Desert tiles. So I decided to settle in place getting the advantages of the Wheat and the Sheep.
Technologies to Research
The decision concerning the Technology which you should research first, depends on the environment of your capital, the starting technologies of the Civilization you play and last but not least on your goal. So I have no exact rule like "always start with Agriculture, followed by Hunting, etc.". But because, as said above, fast research is essential for me, I have something like a general rule for milking games: First research target is always Writing.
But there are six different ways to research Writing. Because I forgot two of them in my 4otM1 spoiler, now I list them all:
1. Mysticism - Polytheism - Priesthood - Writing
2. Mysticism - Meditation - Priesthood - Writing
3. Fishing - The Wheel - Pottery - Writing
4. Agriculture - The Wheel - Pottery - Writing
5. Agriculture - Animal Husbandry - Writing
6. Hunting - Animal Husbandry - Writing
In this case the decision was very easy. To get the full benefit of a Wheat tile you need Agriculture and to get the full benefit of a Sheep tile you need Animal Husbandry. So the first technology to research was Agriculture, followed by Animal Husbandry and Writing. To get the Library which becomes available with Writing you have - especially in this environment - to accelerate the build-up by chopping some Forests. So next Technology to research would be Bronze Working.
I like it to get The Wheel early, but on this map it made no sense to research it by myself. I would get it very cheap and very early - after the research of Alphabet - from one of the AIs.
First Units
I remember a discussion concerning what should be the first priority: a Worker or Population growth of the capital. To train a Worker - or a Settler - at first will stop the Population growth for a long time. Nevertheless I believe on nearly all maps this disadvantage will be compensated in a very short time by the improvements built by the Worker. Especially on this map, to train a Worker at first was a "must" for me. Second trained unit was a Warrior. I didn't train this Warrior for defence reason or to explore the map. This Warrior got another job. Later I will explain it. The third unit was again a Warrior. This Warrior was garrisoned in London to prevent "We fear for our safety..." unhappiness.
Citizen Distribution
After all I wrote above (fast research is essential), this decision seems to be clear: The tile where my Citizen will work can only be one of the Lake tiles (2 Food + 3 Gold). But it is not so easy as it looks like. There is a strong dependence between Research and Population. Normally a higher Population allows a faster Research. This game is a good example to explain this inner game mechanic.
The City Squares of London consist of three Lake tiles (2F,3G), one Ocean tile (1F,3G), one Plains tile (1F,1H), one Forest/Grassland tile (2F,1H), one Plains/Wheat tile (2F,1H) and one Grassland tile (2F). To make my writing a little bit more easy I will use from now the following terminology: If an alternative A is definitely and in every respect better than an alternative B, I will say "A dominates B". So in this case a Lake tile dominates an Ocean tile - 2F,3G is without any doubts better than 1F,3G - and the Forest/Grassland respectively the Plains/Wheat tile dominates the Plains and the Grassland tile. So there is only a decision between two alternatives - 2F,3G or 2F,1H - necessary.
Now maybe some players will say "Two and three is five and five is more than three. So I will use one of the Lake tiles." But it is not so easy. Nobody - besides he is really weak in arithmetic - would say "Two ten dollar notes and three one dollar notes are more than two ten dollar notes and a five dollar note." And we are in a similar situation. We should not compare apples (Gold) and oranges (Hammers).
To explain the context I will use a comparison of two procedures. The rule of procedure A is very easy: Let work your Citizens every time on the tiles where the sum of Food, Gold and Hammers is maximized. Using this rule, the first Citizen works on one of the Lake tiles.
For procedure B doesn't exist an easy rule like for procedure A. Procedure B is the procedure I used in my game. I have to explain it decision by decision. I started with the Wheat/Plains tile. In 3400BC I changed to one of the Lake tiles. This change I have to explain.
Without the change the Worker would have been trained at the end of 3280BC and could make his first move in 3240BC. In the same year (3240BC) he would have started to irrigate the Wheat tile. He would have finished this job in 2960BC and would have been able to start the build-up of the Pasture in 2880BC. But at this time there are three turns necessary to research Animal Husbandry. With the above mentioned change my game play became much more balanced. The Worker became available in 3200BC (one turn later than without change) and started immediately to irrigate the Wheat. Next trained unit was a Warrior.
In 3120BC I changed again the working place of my Citizen. New working place was the Sheep tile (3F). With this change I reached a perfect balance: Animal Husbandry was researched in the same turn when the Worker stand on the Sheep tile, ready to build the Pasture (2840BC). When the Wheat tile was irrigated (2920BC) the Citizens working place was changed again. because the irrigated Wheat tile (5F,1H) dominates the Sheep tile, his new working place was the irrigated Wheat tile. From this moment for Citizen distribution the rule of procedure A was used.
Next technology to research was Writing. In 2840BC the Population of London increased to two. Following the rule, the working place of the new Citizen was one of the Lake tiles. In 2720BC the first Warrior was trained in London. Now followed the training of the garrison Warrior. In 2640BC the Pasture was built. The working place of the second Citzen became the Sheep tile. In 2600BC the third Citizen (working place: Lake tile) and in 2400BC the fourth Citizen (also Lake tile) were born.
In 2240BC Writing was discovered and the research of Bronze Working started. Also the build-up of the Library has started. After reaching a Population of five (2200BC) the Citizen distribution was completely changed. A further increase of Population would not make any sense, because at this time the Population of Londons was restricted to five. Every additional Citizen would beome a resisting Citizen. So the new Citizen distribution was: First, second and third Citzen worked on a Lake tile, fourth and fith Citizen worked on an Ocean tile. With this distribution Bronze Working was discovered in 1925BC, one turn before it was discovered when I would have used procedure A.
The results are summarized in the three following graphics. The first graphic shows the cumulated Research (Beakers), the second one the cumulated Food (Breads) and the last one the cumulated Production (Hammers). In all three graphics the red function shows procedure A (2F,3G) and the green one procedure B (2F,1H).
The result is very interesting: The Food is more or less the same (the four Breads difference doesn't matter because the Population should not further grow). But there is a sinificant difference in Research (29 Beakers) and Production (15 Hammers). In both aspects procedure B is the better procedure. With procedure B I got Bronze Working one turn earlier and the first trained Warrior was available five turns earlier. The second trained Warrior doesn't matter because he is only used as Garrison Warrior.
It is possible to find out the best procedure by using some paper sheets and a pencil. I did it in another manner: After the launch of the Pre-Game discussion thread I started a game with the same settings. Before I made the first move I started the WorldBuilder, used it to generate somewhere an identically starting position like the one shown on the starting screenshot and saved the game. This saved game was the basis for all my tests. So I could predict the appearance of my first Great Scientist (1450BC) very exactly (predicted 1425BC; see my post in the Pre-Game discussion thread). The difference of one turn is explained like following: Using a robbed worker it was possible to finish the chop of the last Forest needed to complete the Library one turn earlier -> Libary finished one turn earlier -> Two Scientist available one turn earlier -> Great Scientist available one turn earlier.
There is one thing, I do not really understand: e.g. in 2000BC in London I had a total research of 24 Beakers and London was the only city I had at this time. But at the end of the turn the cumulated Research Beakers increased from 144 to 174 and I have no idea where the six additional Beakers came from. These "ghost" Beakers didn't appear only in 2000BC. They appeared in different numbers all the time. It started 4000BC with one "ghost" Beaker. After the research of Agriculture the number of "ghost" Beakers increased to three and so on.
Worker Robbery
Building Workers - or Settlers - lead to a stagnation of Population growth and Population growth is the key of the game. So Workers are very, very worthful and the following question is self-evident: How can I get Workers without stagnation of Population growth? The answer to this question is also obvious: You have to rob them from other Civilizations.
I robbed Workers in a lot of test games and it seems that it is at least in the low und middle difficulty levels (until Monarch) more or less riskless. Because of the slow development in Civ IV, before 2000BC the AI will not have enough units for a counter attack. There is only one small risk: If the exploring Warrior of the attacked Civilization is close to your homeland and you have only one Warrior to defend your city/ies then it is possible that this unfriendly Warrior will destroy some of your improvements. But it seems to be a really small risk. It happened never in my test games.
After twelve or fifteen turns you can make peace and send again a Warrior close to the AI city to wait for the next Worker. If the attacked AI has one or more Archers it is possible that your Worker Robber, the Warrior, is killed before he can escape. The Worker will always escape because he his faster. In the case you have lost a Warrior to get peace is not so easy. The attacked AI wants to get something (City, Technology, etc.). For me this is not a problem because I research Alphabet very early. So in the worst case - Warrior killed - I get a valuable Worker for a worthless technology (Remember: the attacked Civilization is very backwarded).
Differently from Civilization III in Civilization IV the performance of a robbbed Worker is the same like the one of a Worker trained by yourself.
To get additional Workers is not the only advantage. After loosing two Workers the respective Civilizations are very backwarded. So later it was very easy to wipe them from the map.
In this game I robbed four Workers, two from the Americans and two from the Arabians. The starting Warrior and the first Warrior I trained were used to rob the Workers. To find capitals of other Civilizations very fast, you can not use circle exploration. You have to send your Warriors in one direction.
Last point: You should not do this in games where your goal is a Diplomatic Victory.
Research Path
3520BC Agriculture
2880BC Animal Husbandry
2240BC Writing
1925BC Bronze Working
1425BC Alphabet
1400BC The Wheel (from AI)
1400BC Mysticism (from AI)
1400BC Hunting (from AI)
1400BC Pottery (from AI)
1375BC Archery (from AI)
1225BC Iron Working
1125BC Polytheism
1400BC Masonry (from AI)
1050BC Priesthood
940BC Sailing
800BC Code of Laws
780BC Civil Service (from The Oracle)
700BC Literature
440BC Metal Casting
440BC Mathematics (from AI)
260BC Meditation (from AI)
240BC Currency
1AD two turns to Philosophy
This time I decided to take Civil Service for free. Because of Elizabeths Philosophical trait Philosophy was not so important like in 4otM1.
I really built two Cottages on the two river tiles inside the capital squares. At the end of the game the Towns developed from the Cottages were replaced by Farms.
I founded my second research center (York, 1550BC) close to the Gems. The next two cities were founded on the Marble (Nottingham, 920BC) and the Stone (Hastings, 760BC). Additionally I conquered a Barbarian city (Sarmatian, founded in 1000BC, captured in 180BC).
Wonders, Great People and Revolutions
1450BC Merit Ptah (born in London, used for Academy in London)
860BC Xi Ling Shi (born in London, used for Academy in York)
800BC The Oracle (completed in York)
780BC Bureaucracy
660BC Conversion to Confucianism
560BC The Great Library (completed in London)
540BC The Pyramids (completed in Hastings)
520BC Representation
220BC Nabu-rimanni (born in London, joined London)
1AD Status
At the end of my first spoiler I publish the status at 1AD comparing it this time with my status in 4otM1:
Code:
4otM2 4otM1
Cities 5 9
Population 19 50
Workers 7 10
Warriors 5 2
Swordsmen/Praetorians 1 4
Axemen 2 2
Work Boats 0 1
Barracks 0 2
Granaries 1 1
Lighthouses 0 3
Academies 2 2
Libraries 3 5
Courthouses 1 3
Temples 1 1
Monasteries 1 2
National Epic yes yes
The Pyramids yes yes
The Great Library yes yes
The Oracle yes yes
The Parthenon no yes
Research Beakers 6200 7000
Game Score 506 1136
Very good writeup hendrikszoon. 
I can't wait for your second spoiler. (I have no doubt you'll blow my score out of the water.)
I don't know if you read the Technology Research Explained article in the strategy article forums. There are modifiers to how many beakers you gain based on how many of the pre-requisite techs you know and how many other AI's know the tech you're researching. So I don't know if you were accounting for that or not.
edit: One other thing. While the captured workers can escape the AI you stole them from easy enough, it's a little less than easy getting the worker back to your cities without running into barbarians. How did you manage to get all 4 of them back? Did you escort them, bust fog with multiple units to make a path for them, or just get lucky? The one worker I stole was one part fog busting and one part luck.
I can't wait for your second spoiler. (I have no doubt you'll blow my score out of the water.)hendrikszoon said:
I don't know if you read the Technology Research Explained article in the strategy article forums. There are modifiers to how many beakers you gain based on how many of the pre-requisite techs you know and how many other AI's know the tech you're researching. So I don't know if you were accounting for that or not.
edit: One other thing. While the captured workers can escape the AI you stole them from easy enough, it's a little less than easy getting the worker back to your cities without running into barbarians. How did you manage to get all 4 of them back? Did you escort them, bust fog with multiple units to make a path for them, or just get lucky? The one worker I stole was one part fog busting and one part luck.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Shillen said:
I have no idea how Hendikszoon was doing this, but I do not think there is a problem. Workers have two movements. Avoid stepping on hills, forests and jungles and do just one step per turn unless you know that next step is free of barbs. Then if you meet a barb after first step you always have a chance to go back.
In civ4 workers are better barb-proved than in civ3.
hendrikszoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
- Messages
- 60
Thanks for the hint. I really didn't know this article.Shillen said:
In my first test games I tried it without escort. It was not a good idea. I lost around half of the captured Workers. So I escorted them. The disadvantage of this procedure is, it needs a long time to bring them back. In my game I have had some bad luck: At first I found America and not Arabia or Spain which were much closer to my capital. So a long time was gone until my first captured Worker (captured in 2640BC, arrival in England at around 1900BC) could start his work.Shillen said:
hendrikszoon, great writeup man. This is what I read the spoiler threads for. I didn't submit my game b/c of some bad luck, but I replayed the game a bunch of times and always wondered whether I should work the lakes or wheat/sheep first. I also used the worldbuilder to recreate the start, but I failed to properly record the results of my efforts like you did. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that I should keep a pencil and pad right next to my cpu for gotm purposes.
Also, I take it the apples and oranges of your 1ad stats is reffering to 4otm1 being on normal speed, while 4otm2 was on epic?
Also, I take it the apples and oranges of your 1ad stats is reffering to 4otm1 being on normal speed, while 4otm2 was on epic?
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