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GOTM-02: First Spoiler:

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by ainwood, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Yes, I was surprised from your description that you were able to hold off the barbarians. Did you just let them pillage your improvements? (I don't see how you could move out of your cities to fight them.) Maybe you have enough more experience with me in the game that you know how to park your archers where the barbs will stupidly attack them. My problem with this is that if you don't get it 100% right, if they do what you don't expect, it can be a total disaster.
     
  2. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

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    MA
  3. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Yes, but he said he only has archers, to fight barbarian axemen, which is more difficult. And this map doesn't really have very many chokepoints like that one: the barbs can come from most directions, in the early (up to 1 AD) phase before most of the map is settled.

    I agree that one archer there might be able to handle that entire front. But it seems to me that you would need several more, around your perimeter, to handle all threats. At least.
     
  4. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Missouri
    One of the best methods I've found to stunt the barbs is by sending units out and fortifying them on hills. Send them out past your border in order to keep as many tiles in view as possible. Obviously this only works in the early game.

    Using this I didn't have many problems with barbs at all. I did leave a couple lesser units parked in the tundra on hills for the majority of the game.
     
  5. CaptainEO

    CaptainEO Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    27
    Haha yeah... I got so tired of barbarian axemen coming in from the tundra north of London, I sent two warriors up there to cordon off the area.
     
  6. Venom3

    Venom3 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
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    13
    I hooked up my Iron ASAP and spammed alot of archers/axemen from there basically. I really should have put up that 3rd city... that way I prolly would have ended up with 1/2 again what i had at the end of my peaceful expansion phase.

    That being said, I'm within striking distance of machinary from there which allows for macemen, something that is able to deal with not only barbarians but any Ancient Age unit the other civs have. You'll see from my next writeup that it wasnt easy going keeping around for that little bit but I was hoping that the quick beuacracy made it worth it (especially when I finally get around to cottage spamming at my capital)

    although the extended culture borders I had did allow more response time than I would normally have had
     
  7. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Sure. But you're talking about surviving until well past 1 AD with only a handful of archers. I was attacked by many barbarian archers before then, and a few axemen too. I don't see how a handful of archers would have been nearly enough. I'm wondering if there's a difference in your game (perhaps something outside our control) that accounts for this working better for you.
     
  8. Memphus

    Memphus Deity

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    Well I had a total of 4 archers fortified in hills/trees early who got upgraded from warriors they beat so could handle axemen for a perimeter, but then Needed a back up axe for the northwest corner as because lots of barbs were comming that way.
    The complete at net at 1ad is:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3539418&postcount=24


    But your right DaviddedJ if they had gotten past I was done for, since most of my cities had only one defender (my capital just a warrior :mischief:)
     
  9. Venom3

    Venom3 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    at that point I had not seen a single axemen. A few archers had been seen but that was about it. I had open borders with every civ but America and they were all happily wandering through my territory which helped keep the barbarian spawns down. The large borders would have helped keep the spawns to a minimum and I also had several warriors fortified in the tundra to the north to stop them appearing up there as well.

    but you're right, perhaps it is just luck or a factor outside our control that caused it. I still have the 1AD autosave of my game if you'd like to have a look for yourself and see if you can work a reason out.
     
  10. Dreef

    Dreef Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
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    I went directly from warriors to axemen. I went an alternate route and just beat the fog back as far as possible. Very little barb spawns because I left them so few places to spawn. Was straight to war with those axemen anyway, they didn't even get to kill any barbs.
     
  11. Drugged_Unholy

    Drugged_Unholy Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
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    264
    Finally had time to do this, what with finishing the RB adventures and surprising the AI with the spanish inquisition.

    Opening Moves

    Settled on the spot
    Decided to go for hunting first so i could build scouts. I let London grow and build warriors and scouts until about size 4, then build a settler, chopped a worker, and built barracks to prepare for the onslaught of barbs.

    Events

    Had bad luck with barbs and animals, and thus didn't explore as well as I wanted to, however i realised that I wanted to expand south for the gems and focused my efforts on doing so. The barbs proved to be annoying, but i didn't lose anything more than warriors and archers in defending my land. It did slow me down. Eventually I ended up with 4 cities, as spain took the barb cities I wanted, and settled in the ice for the silver. I can probably flip these 2 cities from spain, but i suspect i will be using war to expand soon.
    The aztecs are the only civ I have bad relations with, because i cancelled deals when asked to by the americans. i managed to trade my way to top of the tech table.

    My city placement was like this



    My plan is to found a religion as i need the happiness, and prepare a force to take out spain, whilst keeping the americans as life long allies.
     
  12. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    I decided about 500AD to go for the cultural victory, noting the nice commerce my big three cities was generating, and the presence of 4 domestic religions. I thought at the time that I would also settle for redcoats as my best units...

    Key decisions:

    Building worker and researching food techs first to get London food bonuses fired up.

    Researching Wheel, Bronze, and Masonry next to keep workers busy (London having so much food made building workers less onerous, though squeezing in military was tricky, and I often had to take citizens off the food bonuses to avoid unhappiness).

    Settled second city at the stone, missing the fogged cow nearby by one tile. :mad: This eventually became my Heroic Epic city and built nearly all my military post redcoat. Picked up hunting and archery to bolster defenses.

    Third city by the gems. Took awhile for London culture to let it work its sheep. Noticed that this city had lots of forests, with a good mix of flat and hills + river = wonder city. Chopped pyramids here with help from stone supply. This city become my National Epic GP factory, with help from later Hanging Gardens and a Great Engineer fueled Great Library.

    Once I was in Respresentation from Pyramids and Writing was researched, I hired two scientists in London (powered by the food bonuses) to get Academies up. Eventually got five, though only one in this initial push to take advantage of the palace's eight commerce.

    Fourth city went in the middle of the southwest jungle, grabbing 3 food bonuses. This became my third legendary city, as all the jungle became cottages.

    At this point, I held off on further city founding to shore up my economy (London was also busy feeding scientists, so was suboptimal to build settlers).
    After getting Iron Working to clear jungle, got Alphabet to trade tech. Nothing great available at first, so cleaned up some prereq techs with 2/3 turn research, then traded for Math, Mono, and Metal Casting (nice with gems!), beelined for Currency to bolster economy, and tried for Code of Laws to get religion. Missed it by a turn, which was actually the best thing that could have happened, as Isabella taught me her religion (Hinduism) and we became VERY good friends, despite the fact that around 500AD I was settling border cities to put lots of cultural pressure on her resources.

    After Currency came in, I conquered the nice barb city to the far east (future Ironworks site), and settled another to grab the marble, copper, and fish to the northeast of London around the lake. Resources became available via trade, and cities were allowed to grow to a decent size as I prepared for a run on Liberalism...

    Oh, and Isabella took the nice barb city to the northwest in my game too! Ended up flipping it.

    Looking at the 500AD save, I had forgotten, but Isabella did declare on me around 500AD, and we engaged in a bit of mutual pillaging before making peace. I got her religion shortly thereafter and all was forgotten. Barbs were also a challenge - another reason I paused at four cities.
     
  13. Sybot

    Sybot Faceless Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
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    226
    Location:
    England
    The story so far...

    I decided to go for a diplo, seeing as GOTM1 was very military based. First I went for an early religion, to spread round to make friends. Monty got Buhdism (sp?) and Mansa got Judaism, but I was able to get Hinduism. Unfortunatly Monty's unstable mind combined with me being a heathen caused him to declare war on me. He was ridculously easy to fend off, the largest force he sent was an Archer and a Warrior together.

    My strategy is to place cottages wherever possible. Already I have a couple of villages churning out cash. My research first aimed for a religion, then to Archery (since I'd read that barbs were a bigger threat on slower speeds) then to Pottery for Cottages, a brief detour to Agriculture to make use of the wheat, then Bronze and Iron Working and finally towards Alphabet.

    I was so glad when the iron popped up right next to London, as just a few turns earlier I had noticed a stash of copper just a little too far from my cities to use. Thanks to that iron, I was able to get my first Axeman out in time to fend off the barbs and Monty.

    As the first phase comes to a close, I have signed a peace deal with Monty giving him Writing, signed Open Borders with everybody else, an I am preparing to raze a barb city. Once I have Literature I will go for the Great Library, while researching Code of Laws and Currency to allow me to expand faster.

    My empire in 250 AD:

     
  14. Ribannah

    Ribannah Fighter Druid

    Joined:
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    Castle Gobs
    Do Barbarians Grow On Trees? :cool: :mad:

    I have never seen that many, and that while I did post lookouts outside my borders. In 920BC, one of them was attacked by an entire stack of at least 5 barb Warriors that popped up out of nowhere. Or hero managed to kill 3 before he got trampled. There must also be a secret barbarian compound on the northpole because so many came out of the snow right north of London. Soon after, they came with Axemen, and we were fortunate to have the cash to upgrade our Warriors (science was halted as we were waiting for the Libraries to come online), or surely we would have lost half our realm.

    As it is, the English Woodsman II units are running from one corner of the empire to another to fend off the hordes. They are managing, but couldn't prevent some pillaging. Exploring the unknown had to be postponed, but we have seen borders of all the rivals.

    Meanwhile, Mali destroyed a closeby barb city, but a few turns later it was already there again in the same spot southeast.

    There was a very short war between Spain and Aztecs during which nothing happened that the game considered worth announcing.

    Despite the continuous barbarian threat, we are doing quite well. :)

    Exploration
    Our initial Warrior went west, popped a hut for 81 gold in 3640BC and another for a free Warrior in 3200BC. We sighted no more huts. Between the two of them, these Warriors killed a lot of animals, and they got to Woodsman II in 2560BC and 1650BC. Later, they got upgraded to Axemen.
    Contact with the AI came easy enough. Mali was the last one we met, as early as 1950BC. We signed Open Borders with everyone and managed to trade for a good number of techs, probably because at the moment we have no religion yet.

    Religion
    The three early religions were grabbed by three different AI's which I guess is not bad for us. Buddhism went in 3520BC, Hinduism in 1650BC and Judaism in 940BC. We are presently researching Code of Laws and are quite confident that we can get Confucianism, which comes with a free Missionary.

    Civics
    England turned Representation and Slavery in 520BC, for only one turn of anarchy.

    Great people
    Moses appeared in York in 260BC and is, historically quite correct, standing on the stone, waiting to see what the holy city will be. Some claim that he has found some rules of living written on that stone, but the English are not sure what to believe yet. :)

    Towns
    4000BC London, on the starting tile (wheat,sheep,iron)
    2040BC York, in the southwest (rice,pig,stone,gold)
    1625BC Nottingham, in the west (corn,cow,2xwine,silk)
    1275BC Hastings, in the south (copper,2xgems)
    380BC Canterbury, in the northeast (fish,marble,copper)
    240BC Coventry, in the east on Lake Mali (sheep,crab,whale)

    London
    4000BC Founded
    3240BC Worker
    2840BC =2
    2600BC Warrior, =3
    2160BC Settler
    1975BC =4
    1875BC =5
    1700BC Settler
    1575BC Worker
    1325BC Settler
    1200BC Work Boat
    920BC =6
    560BC The Pyramids
    460BC Granary
    440BC =7
    300BC =8
    200BC Library, =9
    100BC Work Boat
    60BC =10
    1AD building Lighthouse

    York
    2040BC Founded
    1750BC =2
    1675BC Obelisk
    1650BC Warrior
    1375BC Worker
    1225BC Warrior
    1125BC =3
    1025BC Stonehenge
    960BC Warrior
    540BC Settler
    340BC Granary
    300BC =4
    140BC =5
    40BC Library
    1AD building Worker

    Nottingham
    1625BC Founded
    1350BC =2
    1250BC Warrior
    1050BC =3
    640BC =4
    540BC Granary
    480BC =5
    400BC Settler
    300BC =6
    200BC Library, =7
    80BC Barracks
    60BC =8
    1AD building Axeman

    Hastings
    1275BC Founded
    1050BC Warrior
    880BC =2
    860BC Warrior
    360BC Granary
    340BC =3
    100BC Library
    1AD =4, building Walls

    Canterbury
    380BC Founded
    1AD =2, building Lighthouse

    Coventry
    240BC Founded
    1AD building Work Boat

    Technology
    4000BC Fishing, Mining
    3480BC Agriculture
    2760BC Animal Husbandry
    2000BC Bronze Working
    1825BC Mysticism
    1650BC The Wheel
    1450BC Masonry
    860BC Iron Working
    760BC Pottery
    600BC Writing
    60BC Alphabet, Sailing (America), Hunting+Polytheism (Arabia)
    40BC Priesthood+Archery+Monotheism (Arabia), Meditation (Mali)
    1AD researching Code of Laws (Mali has Metal Casting to trade for)



    Situation in 1 AD
    Score: England 531, Mali 414, Arabia 400, Persia 362, Aztecs 336, America 329, Spain 321
    Cities: 6 (10,8,5,4,2,1)
    Population: 22,06% (Arabia 15%)
    Land: 8,06% (Persia 8%)
    Units: 5 Worker, 5 Warrior, 3 Axeman, 1 Work Boat, 1 Great Prophet
    Buildings: 1 Barracks, 4 Granary, 1 Obelisk, 4 Library
    Wonders: Stonehenge, The Pyramids
    Resources: corn, rice, wheat, fish, copper, iron, gems, gold, cow, pig, sheep, stone (within borders: crab, silk, marble, whale, wine)
    Tech: all ancient except Horseback Riding; Iron Working, Alphabet
    Gold: 69

    Playing sessions: 10
     
  15. CB Droege

    CB Droege I

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
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    Location:
    Loveland
    Uhgh... I got squashed between Saladin and Barbarians in 100AD. Like many, I simply had no way to defend against the axes that the barbs were sending my way.

    At the high point, I had three cities. London was placed one square north of the original spot to take advantage of the sheep from turn one. York was west to get the grapes, cows, rice, and stone all in one radius. I build Stonehenge pretty early, so that I wouldn't have to build obilisks in every city. I put Nottingham in the south to grab the gems, then discovered my mistake when the copper was revealed just barely too far away to mine with Nottingham.

    That's when Saladin declared war on me for no reason (Montazuma had already done this, and still haden't actualy attacked me, so I wasn't scared, but I should have realised that Saladin proly wouldn't declare war on me unless he had a plan. He took the fledgling Nottingham, on the same turn that a couple of barb Axemen took London (losing me Stonehenge and the Pyramids which I had built there) York simply wasn't good enough to get me back in the game. Any settlers I sent out were killed because I couldn't escort them with anything better than warriors, and waiting to research archery would have set me too far behind (besides that Saladin or the barbs would eventually have decided to take York.

    My mistakes:

    I ignored hunting in the early game because there was no fur or ivory nearby. This means that I also ignored Archery, and all of my military production relied on finding some kind of metal. That was a bad thing.

    I refused Open Borders with one of my neihbors. Since Isabell didn't like Saladin, I blew him off, so I wouldn't make her mad. This gave Saladin no reason to keep peace with me, when he decided that he wanted my gems.
     
  16. whb

    whb King

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    702
    Wow, that's 10 times the care and dedication I showed in this part of the game. (Or 10 times the will-power at resisting one-more-turn syndrome!) :)
     
  17. Ribannah

    Ribannah Fighter Druid

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
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    2,449
    Location:
    Castle Gobs
    I nonetheles made quite a few mistakes. For instance, I mistimed hooking up the marble because I didn't know it took longer on tundra tiles, and found out too late that we could no longer build the Oracle. I certainly have not shaken off Civ3 habits either but I'm learning. :)
    Score is good but the empire is neither balanced nor focused (looks in admiration at Shillen's report ...) and basically I have no clue how to proceed from here. I have not played a game of Civ4 far beyond this point yet.
     
  18. beestar

    beestar subdeity

    Joined:
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    I played a number of test games before downloading the GOTM2 save, so I was ready for the barbarians. Unfortunately this start doesn't seem to be as successful as one of my previous ones, where I conquered Napoleon's Paris very early on. Ah well.


    Religions

    One thing I learned from my test games was that you can pretty much always beeline for Hinduism. The religious AIs tend to lock up Buddhism, but you can beeline to Hinduism, especially if you work a three-gold tile.

    This proved to be useful, because my neighbours Isabella and Saladin both converted to Judaism (Washington too, later). I was getting really nervous about being surrounded by an opposing religion, and I didn't want to wait until Judaism spread within my own borders, so I quickly swamped Cyrus and Mansa Musa with Hindu missionaries on my side. Fortunately that stuck for the rest of the game, so it became me / Persia / Mali against Spain / Arabia / America.

    Monty developed Buddhism super early and failed to spread it, meaning that EVERYONE hated him.


    Fear of Washington's Revenge, fear of being last

    I sent off my first three warriors to travel the world early on. One of them found Washington far away, with an unguarded worker. I couldn't resist doubling my work force, so I snapped up the warrior and then carefully escorted him back to London ... fortunately we ran just a bit faster than Washington's warriors and made it back safely. This seemed to permanently set back Washington.


    Prince makes me nervous because my score tend to start off very low relative to the other AIs. Fortunately, by 420BC I had picked up enough tech to vault me into the middle, or even second place, making things much more relaxing.


    Trade Routes

    I'starting to realize how critical trade routes are to bringing in revenue. This game was really weird, though. Until 770 AD, I only had trade routes with one civilization (Mali). It must have been something to do with the way I expanded. I finally made some kind of critical connection in 770AD and then finally got hooked up to the rest of the civs. I have a feeling they'd all been happily enriching each other with trade for hundreds of years before I met them ...
     
  19. Grogs

    Grogs King

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    929
    You essentially need a road, coastline, or river that connects your capital to theirs. I too found that it took a long time to get trade routes up and running. I actually had to send a worker into American territory to build the last few sections of road that would connect London and Washington and give me foreign trade routes. I suspect all the jungle is what made the AI so slow to develop them. As for the 'critical connection' I suspect that Mansa built a road to another civ who was already hooked up to several more, thus hooking you all together.
     
  20. Elandra

    Elandra Warlord

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    109

    My hand is right up there too! :) My little four-city empire had grand plans when the Barbarians and Isabella bulldozed me into defeat. :( It was fun until it ended!

    Regarding difficulty level, I'll make an unabashed plea for a freeze on difficulty increases for the next GOTM. Noble was gritting and fun; Prince was fun but disasterous. I really don't mind the defeat: I expected to lose. But I hoped to reach full expansion and get a taste of empire planning, where the fun really kicks in (for me, anyway). If we go up a level next time, the fun factor may go down a bit. :undecide: I'll still play and submit, since GOTM is my one-allowed-game-per-month in my own personal effort to stem the addiction. But still, I vote for Prince or less for February.

    To the staff: I'm not sure I submitted properly. I saw this post after submitting. (In fact, I'm beginning to judge my games by the time ratio: time spent playing versus time spent reading these threads!). I replayed the defeat turn from an autosave to get a save file to submit. Is that legit? Should I submit my last true save? Its from a few hundred years prior to my defeat, but I care more for having a legitimate submission than for the longer game. And what replay file do I submit? I had two to choose from and picked the most recent. Thanks in advance for your advice.
     

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