GOTM-02 Second Spoiler

[Shillen]

I'm expecting a pre-1300AD conquest and maybe an even earlier domination. I could have won by conquest in 1415AD if I didn't stop and spend 40 turns milking. Also, if I hadn't planned to milk I would have turned research off at military tradition instead of going all the way to biology and beyond, allowing me to rush buy buildings and units.

My score breakdown:

The size of my cities on the victory turn:

 

[Memphus]

@Shillen or anyone else

My final Spoiler isn't up yet but I did get a Domination win in in the mid 1400's with a score just under 90K

Although I did trigger domination by mistake,
I am unfimilar with how to "milk", and would like to learn

At which point do you know you can continue to increase your score versus having it decrease due to the time multiplier?

Are there specific dates where the multiplier changes?

 

[Shillen]

You just hover your cursor over your civ name in the lower right of the screen each turn. If it starts to drop then you're done. My score was still rising rather rapidly when I won the game. As you can see most of my cities still have 10+ food surplus. I'm sure I could have gotten another 10k or more score if I hadn't captured the sistine chapel causing border expansions out of my control. I wish the game told you what wonders a city had before giving you the option to raze it or keep it. I know you can look at the city from the main map and see the building but it's not so easy to pick them out that way. Like I said in my report I always could have razed the sistine chapel city, but I just wanted to finish the game at that point and razing a size 20 city along with the unhappiness from declaring on Monte would have dropped my score in the short-term.

 

[Memphus]

Alright so There are no milstone cutoff dates then?

Following that score should be easy enough to do

(i.e. 1500 AD your score is ^2 instead of ^3 for before this date)
In which case milking to right before this date then finishing would seem optimal.

From the score break down threads I remeber something sort of like this but not sure if that was before or after the patch.

I will have to give this a try in my next game and practice before the next GOTM

 

[Shillen]

I don't think it has anything to do with the dates and everything to do with how fast your cities are growing. Once your bigger cites start to stagnate your population won't grow enough each turn to offset the early finish bonus for finishing one turn sooner.

 

[Spoony]

Thank you Shillen, good advice about the milking. I've been busy so haven't had chance to read up on it, as shown in my score. I'm sure I could have milked mine for a while. Wouldn't have come close to your score though. I suppose this is going to become somewhat obsolete if they sort out a new scoring system. It has been made obvious that the scoring is incredibly unfair to the none warfare palyers.

Originally posted by Shillen
I'm expecting a pre-1300AD conquest and maybe an even earlier domination

Anyway good luck, I hope you're wrong about the others being quite so far ahead of you. Tricky map with strange characteristics, maybe it might catch a few of them out.

Originally posted by Memphus
Domination win in in the mid 1400's with a score just under 90K

Thats sound like a very impressive date. Looking at mine and your score when you compare it to Shillen's really does show the value of milking.

 

[A+ombomb]

As a rule of thumb, if you don't have biology yet, you can still probably milk your score. If you are trying to maximize score, then you will probably want to go with domination, so just stop when you hit about 50% land area domination and beline to biology so your cities can start to bloom. Once your cities are close to capping out, that is when you want to continue conquest, and by the time you have captured a few cities to hit the domination point, your cities should be pretty much maxed.

 

[TylerDurdon]

I'm allowing myself the right to read this thread

I wont be submitting my game, cause I lost. It was my first game on prince, first game I actually used my Worker myself and the result is not surprising... but this has been a good learning experience... Now I know why its WAY better to not automate your worker... But I lost cause of several mistake

First one I made is a POOR judgement to where my cities were founded... My second city was one tile west of most screenshot I've seen (beside gems)... and I've put a city all the way across the lake... and she was for the most part of the game isolated (connected by water but no road)!!! That was a big mistake...

Plus, barbarians founded Angle near wine resources across the river... I prepare 4-5 Warriors (cause at that point that was my only unit), but Americans beat me to it with 2 chariots and a warrior... I was obviously angry but I decided to wait a little instead of going after them, but that too was a mistake. With no copper... and i beelined for Iron and even then I didnt start a war with Americans... I didnt thought I was strong enough...

I've waited all the way to Rifling.. (which I beelined for most of the time stoping here and there for a tech or 2) but by then they were the strongest on the map!!! I decided to go on with my war anyway... they had cavalry but I thought my Redcoat were enough... I did conquest 2 cities... but took me a lot... and right then when I was weak... Isabella turn on me (we had good relation and same religion, but were friends with Americans)...

My production wasnt good enough to handle both... I tried peace... but no luck for me... I lost York, Canterbury and Hasting, only then I called it quit...
I could have went for another war, but Isabella was a friend that I thought I could bring in against the Americans, and the only other civs with border was Mansa... but he would have won my distant city way to easly, it was almost impossible to defend... I was in war with Monte from almost the start but we had Isabella has a buffer and that didnt went anywhere and Saladin/Cyrus were my principal tech trader!!!!

So I retire, I know some think its nota good way to take the lost,but I'm sure you almost all do it

Reading your stuff, looking at your maps and try 1 or 2 more prince games, be more agressive and I'm going to be ready for GOTM 3... hoping it aint going to be a monarch game

 

[solenoozerec]

@Memphus – in civ4, there are four components contributing to the score: population, territory, techs and wonders. You are limited in three last by 64% limit of territory, tech tree and a number of available wonders. Your ability to grow population is nearly unlimited in this game. Even if you get unhappy unhealthy cities you still can grow, you can turn everything into farms and still grow. And then you can turn culture on 100% and grow again. The input of the population component in the score is nicely illustrated in this Bradleyfeanor's
post in the final spoiler for 4OTM1. IMHO the diference between awards and medals will be even higher for 4OTM than it was in 3OTM.

 

[Shillen]

A couple tips on milking:

1) Only build culture buildings in your "core" or in cities that you plan on using all the land around them for multiple expansions. I pretty much only had culture buildings in my original cities and the forbidden palace in an ex-spanish city. In order to get 1 expansion out of each city you can use caste system; hire an artist and fire it once the expansion occurs.

2) Once you learn biology pick a couple size 15+ cities to churn out workers non-stop for many turns. Meanwhile farm all around those cities first because the massive food surplus will mean you can dish out a worker every 1-2 turns. You'll need around 60 workers on a standard map.

3) A city or two building settlers is also good. Generally by the time I"ve conquered everyone I'm at around ~40% of the land. Now is when I want to increase that up to nearly 60%. You must settle these cities quickly because size 1-5 cities actually grow SLOWER than size 6-18 cities do. For instance take a size 1 city. If it has a food bonus tile generating 5 food it will only have 3 food surplus at size 1. Then let's say it can work another 5 food tile at size 2. That makes it 6 food surplus. Then at size 3 it can work a 4 food tile, making it 8 food surplus. The food surplus is increasing faster than the food required for growth is. Notice my cities in my post up above. I have quite a few size 3-4 cities that were just reaching their potential for massive growth. Ideally I would have milked another 10+ turns, if not for fear of triggering domination due to Sistine.

4) Serfdom is huge to speed up the farming and windmilling of every tile in your empire. Be aware that any change in civics with this many cities will have a huge anarchy duration.

5) Universal Suffrage would be helpful for rush buying buildings such as granaries/markets/grocers but then again remember the anarchy duration. It may not be worth switching. You also will lose out on any extra technology points if you decide to rush buy buildings instead of researching.

6) Golden ages are good for getting any last minute buildings built. Production is very limited since everything is farmed and windmilled.

7) On easier difficulties if you conquer the AI's quickly enough you can save building the Hanging Gardens for the last turn of the game. I couldn't do that in this game but I've done it in other games, netting a 15k+ bonus to score on the turn I built it.

8) I didn't do this in this game but if you want to get the last AI out of your way you can settle a city on useless terrain (middle of ice or desert), gift it to him, then take all his other cities and make peace. If you pick the right terrain you can cripple him forever because he'll have no food to grow the city or build a worker/settler. This could be considered an exploit possibly.

9) As I said in my main post only capture cities with good terrain or access to happy/health resources you need. Raze all others.

10) Make a courthouse your first build in just about every city you capture. The AI is good about leaving forests lying around, so chop them down to speed it up. You will need to clear cut every forest when you get to the milking phase anyway.

 

[Grogs]

A couple tips on milking:

3) A city or two building settlers is also good. Generally by the time I"ve conquered everyone I'm at around ~40% of the land. Now is when I want to increase that up to nearly 60%. You must settle these cities quickly because size 1-5 cities actually grow SLOWER than size 6-18 cities do. For instance take a size 1 city. If it has a food bonus tile generating 5 food it will only have 3 food surplus at size 1. Then let's say it can work another 5 food tile at size 2. That makes it 6 food surplus. Then at size 3 it can work a 4 food tile, making it 8 food surplus. The food surplus is increasing faster than the food required for growth is. Notice my cities in my post up above. I have quite a few size 3-4 cities that were just reaching their potential for massive growth. Ideally I would have milked another 10+ turns, if not for fear of triggering domination due to Sistine.

Your numbers are a little off (you forgot about the 2f from the city center.) They would actually be +5 (size 1), +8 (size 2), and +10 (size3) I think it's still a good point though.

8) I didn't do this in this game but if you want to get the last AI out of your way you can settle a city on useless terrain (middle of ice or desert), gift it to him, then take all his other cities and make peace. If you pick the right terrain you can cripple him forever because he'll have no food to grow the city or build a worker/settler. This could be considered an exploit possibly.

I don't think this works anymore, at least not after 1.52. I looked at the list of cities I had a couple of times and I was surprised by some of the things that were highlighted red. The AI wouldn't even accept some of my old core cities (like Nottingham and York) because they weren't on the AI's border. I don't think they ever accept completely worthless cities anymore, although, curiously, they will still build them from time to time.

 

[solenoozerec]

10) Make a courthouse your first build in just about every city you capture. The AI is good about leaving forests lying around, so chop them down to speed it up. You will need to clear cut every forest when you get to the milking phase anyway.

I am not sure exactly how city maintenance works and maybe I am wrong. It seems to me that in a highly populated city, market could be a better choice over courthouse as 25% additional income may be bigger than saved 50% of city maintained from a courthouse.

Edit: On a point 8). Shillen still has a point: Take or destroy all the cities except the worst.

 

[Shillen]

Your numbers are a little off (you forgot about the 2f from the city center.) They would actually be +5 (size 1), +8 (size 2), and +10 (size3) I think it's still a good point though.



I don't think this works anymore, at least not after 1.52. I looked at the list of cities I had a couple of times and I was surprised by some of the things that were highlighted red. The AI wouldn't even accept some of my old core cities (like Nottingham and York) because they weren't on the AI's border. I don't think they ever accept completely worthless cities anymore, although, curiously, they will still build them from time to time.

I've done this multiple times in 1.52. It definitely works. For some reason when I have them down to only 1 city they're willing to take any of my cities no matter how poor of a city it is. Good catch on the food surplus, I wasn't counting the city center food.

Oh another tip also, is leave the AI behind who generated the least amount of culture during the game. Since I'm not building any culture buildings in newly conquered land the "we yearn to join our motherland" happiness penalty will be rather large if the previous owner built a lot of culture there. This was Montezuma in my game since he only had 4 cities because Cyrus beat him up early on.

 

[Rane Khan]

Second GotM game, second type of victory: Domination in 1756 AD, 49.047 points. My best cIV score ever, which is pretty funny since GotM 1 was my lowest cIV score ever.

I don't have time at the moment to make a decent post with a clean rundown of my steps, so that will have to come later, but as a preview for those interested here are two pics already:

 

[jafink]

Well secong Gotm now, and i did very badly. I win pretty consistantly on prince, but i'm not good with lakes map.
I started out planning for a domination victory, but i made many bad choices. first of all i automated my workers. In the early game i lost two settlers that i sent out unescorted, so that slowed me down alot. i got declared on by isabella and monty at the same time so that slowed me down alot too. Made peace with monty and concured isabela. Then i planned to take out Washington because he had a tech lead. War took too long, and i lost by spacerace from Mansa Musa! Final score of 4500 or something like that.

 

[Harok]

Spoiler One

Quick recap of first spoiler:Going for an early cultural win, had many many early mistakes, lost a settler to a misclick, had barbs take over one of my cities I had identified as a cultural city very early on, ended up founding zero religions and it took forever to get any to spread to me, and finally had Isabella land a massive stack of units on my doorstep in 1120. (I went back to check and she had declared war on Saladdin in 870 AD which lasted until 1050 but no cities were ever captured so this is why she had so many units with promotions sitting around)

The rest of the story
I was gettting as many defenders to the city Isa was going to attack many of which were axemen with melee (shock??) upgrades. She declared in 1120 and immediately launched an attack where my troops put up an amazing effort knocking that stack down from 25-30 to 6-10 before I lost the city which she razed. The next turn America's LA flipped to me which was up in the tundra but at least put me back at the 9 cities I needed to make 3 cathedrals. I started moving the rest of my reserves toward the city next closest to Isa and bribed Mansa into the war. At this point Washington and Cyrus are both tight with me but neither is willing to declare war on Isa.

I think I might be safe after killing so many of her troops and with Mansa now in the war when another stack of about 10 troops pops out of the fog near my second closest city to her. Her remaining army from the first battle heads that way also. At this point I am panicking and switch to Slavery and start making liberal use of the whip as quickly as I can to get more units. There is another big battle in 1145 over Newcastle and Isa takes it also and razes it.

My next closest city is one of my big 3 cultural cities and I get more desperate and switch religions to try to get Washington to like me more and to also declare. He still refuses and I keep whipping units moving them to my city as fast as possible. Washington still won't declare war so I flip religions again to see if it will get Cyrus happy enough with me to declare. He is like +8 with no negatives but still won't get involved. When remaining troops start getting close to my next city I am able to pick off a few of her horses that are pillaging and finally Mansa who has been in the war for years now sends a couple of horse archers through my land towards her. Her forces outnumber me and Mansa is being no help. I think I am about to lose at this point but for some reason when Mansa's 2 horses get into her territory the next turn she will give me peace for a couple of techs.

I gladly accept and in 1225 I finally have peace but my nation is in shambles as I am down a city to make cathedrals, and I spent a ton of pop whipping units to stay alive. I seriously consider scrapping my cultural plan for a diplo or space as I have good relations with the big powers and only Mansa is even on techs with me with some others not far behind. I decide to stick it out though and get a settler built to get back to 9 and found a new city on the same spot as the first one Isa took out.

Things went very smooth from this point out and when 4 religions ended up spreading to me I was in decent shape to pull things out. I managed to get all the religions spread to all of my cities with fewer than I expected lost missionaries. And my 2 GP cities were cranking out Great Artists at a very nice rate. I had joined 4 early ones to 2 of the cities and kept the rest for 6K bombs. Around 1700 I signed defensive pacts with Mansa, Cyrus, and Washington which gave me a sense of security. This way at least if I got sneak attacked again I would have allies immediately there to help. Mansa had declared war on Saladin at some point and took many of his cities near mine which made my land increase a ton as some of these were near one of my big culture cities. I think 2 of the cities he took ended up flipping to me sometime in the 1700 or early 1800s.

In 1884 I dropped all the Artists into the 2 cities that needed them and got the cultural win with 9892 points. An embarrasingly low score but after my mistakes and the Isabella affair I was just happy to win. A big part of my low score was having to decimate my pop to whip units trying to hold off Isa but without this tactic I think she would have wiped me out.

All in all I had a fun time playing this game but really wish I would have performed better. I think I will give up the cultural wins for awhile so I can actually go for a decent score next month.

 

[Rain]

A couple tips on milking:

Milking score - an exercise for the truly ... :shakehead

 

[beestar]

Spoiler One
In 1884 I dropped all the Artists into the 2 cities that needed them and got the cultural win with 9892 points. An embarrasingly low score but after my mistakes and the Isabella affair I was just happy to win. A big part of my low score was having to decimate my pop to whip units trying to hold off Isa but without this tactic I think she would have wiped me out.

All in all I had a fun time playing this game but really wish I would have performed better. I think I will give up the cultural wins for awhile so I can actually go for a decent score next month.

Congratulations! If I were playing that game (not as a GOTM), I would have thrown in the towel. Not only did you survive the early war, but actually went on to get the win ...

 

[Shillen]

Milking score - an exercise for the truly ... :shakehead

Trolling - an exercise for the truly ... :shakehead

 

[Rain]

It wasnt trolling - just expressing an opinion on how you have filled up the thread with esoteric minutae. I'd personnally rather read about peoples games than how to inflate your score. In my opinion the only measure of success in civ 4 is earliest win by victory condition. Since any victorious civilization could for all intents and purposes "max out their own score" once they have achieved victory.

Anyway you go hun - whatever floats your boat