GOTM 07 First Spoiler - 500 AD

[ainwood]

FWIW, there were huts in the starting map, although I did remove some close to the players starting location, which sould not be a surprise, because I do that in every game.

Probably the key here was that there was a lot more jungle around the starting location than in previous games - which slowed the exploration down, giving the AI a better chance of finding the huts first.

 

[Jastrow]

I was arguing largely on principle, and you have hit me with emperical evidence. There are nits to pick with your analysis, but it's certainly far more thorough than mine, so your point is conceded. Would you be comfortable with a compromise similar to what DynamicSpirit suggested (see above)?

Agreed, the analysis is rough and far from perfect... I was just trying to get a feel for myself how likely a major modification as been.

As for DynamicSpirit's suggestion, I certainly have no problem with it, and indeed, if you see that as a significant suggestion, then I now see your point more clearly... To me, Dynamicspitirits text is essentially a "nothing" suggestion because I always assumed that was implicite in the way the GOTM was set up, as I always figured that our host could interveen on any map as they see fit.

If that possibility is not clear to all potential players, than putting up a generic text as suggested to make it clear can certainly only be a positive, so there is no way I could possibly object to it.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Better late than never, AINWOOD. I stand corrected, and Jastrow had it right.

I would like to know (as might new players) just what limits there are to your modifications.

 

[topcatdk]

"Note: The auto-generated map may have been editied to enhance your gamplay experience."

I think that would be cute to include on the download page, sounds like the average advert, yet tells you absolutely nothing...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

DynamicSpirit:

Well, I quess reasonable people can disagree. Thanks for responding.

Your suggestion would largely mitigate the problem. However, I suspect that the hypothetical new gotm player that you posit would be confused by a statement like, 'the map has been generated by a script and may or may not have been subsequently hand-edited, so you shouldn't count on its features exactly corresponding to script-generated maps.' If the standard write up were more specific and comprehensible to a gotm rookie regarding the kinds of alterations that might or might not have been made, then the unfairness would be eliminated.

There's probably scope for adjustment in my text. But judging by the number of people who do things like post details of their game outside the spoiler threads (despite clear instructions to the contrary), or even publically post that they've reloaded their game (despite that being against the rules and fairly prominently highlighted in the rules), I suspect that whatever gets posted up, some people will get confused

DynamicSpirit:
It was the fact that there was absolutely no reason to think that the GOTM06map might not have any huts that I found irritating -- the moderators (or whomever created gotm06) played as gods with the game and gleefully, no doubt, left us to struggle with their anomalies.

I don't know any of the mods personally, but I very much doubt that's their intention. They have to cater for a wide variety of interests, ranging from virtual newbies to highly experienced players who habitually play on deity. And there are some people (including myself) who think it's actually more fun to play on a map with very little upfront knowledge. (There's a parallel thread in which I and one or two others have been talking about a map where we're not even told the map type, for example). It doesn't seem unreasonable to me for the GOTM staff to make minor modifications to the map in order to slightly steer the gameplay in some manner - especially as I don't think the Civ map generation scripts are perfect by a long way. Personally I think there is probably some scope for slightly clearer instructions or information in some cases, but ISTM that's a minor issue, more than outweighed by that (I believe) the staff do all this voluntarily, and I'd imagine it takes up quite a lot of time.

 

[ainwood]

Better late than never, AINWOOD. I stand corrected, and Jastrow had it right.

I would like to know (as might new players) just what limits there are to your modifications.

Generally, huts around the immediate starting area are removed. Expect to move more like 10 tiles than 5 to find one. Those that go after them should get a couple, but ideally not enough to be overly unbalancing (as has happened in some games).

Other modifications? Depends on the game, the civ, the map, the difficulty etc. But nothing that fundamentally changes the flavour of the game, or the main map properties.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Thanks, Ainwood . . .

I'm reassured. The gotm is great fun, and I reiterate DynamicSpirit's expression of appreciation for your time and the quality of your volunteer efforts.

 

[kingjoshi]

INTRODUCTION
In this post, I will detail my plans, implementations and recap what I've learned up to 200CE. I will write my post like a research essay and tell you I'm doing so because that's how research essays are written.

BACKGROUND
Going for Conquest/Domination victory with a Camel Archer rush on Contender. It's nice to see others that have taken somewhat similar strategies to mine.

I noticed when playing with Japan in the GOTM3 how some people had their Samurais real early. It seemed by the time I got Civil Service, they already had Macemen out and were conquering cities. Getting Camel Archers would be more difficult though because you need Feudalism and Horseback Riding. Not cheap techs.

I tried to follow a couple guidelines. 1) Don't research anything unless I'll still have Guilds by the same time or it'll be marginally slower but the empire would be much better off. It would have to be something that overtaking a couple cities with Camels couldn't match. 2) Don't forget the importance of Great Persons (especially as Saladin). Check if they can grant free techs to speed up getting to Guilds or aid in another way. 3) Cottage spam.

My goal was to have Camel Archers long before anyone got Longbowmen or Pikemen. And parade through the Pangea with the Camels in the tropical climate to Domination/Conquest victory. Worst case, I upgrade to Cavalry and no one will be able to stop me. Suprisingly few techs inbetween.

EXPERIMENTS
I played a couple test games and tried a couple of different strategies, but fell back on a basic one. One method was to only go for the techs that were 'needed'. However, it works out better to do the CS slingshot and manually research the techs up to Guilds than to do the slingshot to Feudalism. I didn't try slingshooting to Guilds, but I don't think that's possible on Prince. Machinery and Feudalism are too expensive. But I'm not very good at expanding and maintaining research. The value of Alphabet was also drilled in me during the test games.

I've never had a conquest victory before so when I started razing all the cities in one test game, it was painfully obvious that I couldn't maintain research with few cities. Granted, I was trying an OCC conquest without the benefits of the OCC option. However, it was educational in seeing how easily I could cripple other civs and how long it takes for the civs you don't attack to finally catch up in tech. I never finished that game but I upgraded all the Camel Archers to Cavalry and basically had two civs left, but Hatty got Riflemen and me with one city, there was no way to match her research.

The reason I've never done conquest is because I hate razing cities. I can't explain it. I just don't do it. And in another test game, I was doing well and had 10 turns until Military Tradition until I over-conquered. I took on too many cities and research fell to 10%. I would've won, but it would take much longer because of the mismanagement.

In one game, I was cottage spamming but when I chopped the forests, I forgot about the health issues. I had completely forgot about that aspect of the game and can't believe I could play several games recently without it coming into play.

So my experiments showed that my basic guidelines were fine, but I needed to balance everything. Exactly what I hate doing and am horrible at.

IMPLEMENTATION
Planned on settling Mecca 1E on the plains hill. Moved Warrior SE to the hills and thought about it. I lost GOTM4 because I didn't have room to expand because I settled taking the whole peninsula in the fat cross. But this is not emperor level and I can't have such bad luck again. I found Mecca in 3970BCE on the plains hill.

Tech path:
Agriculture->Pottery->Writing->Alphabet (As someone else said, why research what you can get from others?)

First build went to workers. I don't know all the advantages and disadvantages of worker first strategies and I don't know how 1.61 changed anything (I haven't played many games with the patch), but I know workers are key and once the city starts real production, I hate stopping growth. Plus, my first tech to research was Agriculture and I can farm the wheat. By the time I paved a road to the wheat, I had Pottery and was ready to build cottages.

Next 3-4 builds were Warriors. Then a Settler. I wanted to build another city to take pressure off the capital. But I didn't want to build too many to where I would have to lower research.

2140BCE, I steal a worker from Victoria. My warrior had 5 experience points after killing sevral lions but I forgot to use them! He was in the forest after raiding the workers but I forgot to give Woodmen II promotions The worker (somehow) managed to find a path back to Mecca safely. However, her Archer killed my Warrior.

I found Medina 2 squares south of the stone in 1930BCE. If I was planning on founding many cities I would've placed differently. Even so, I don't think my placement was smart. Mainly because I don't have any city that is a real production center. Hopefully, I'll find one during the conquest.

Victoria would not make peace with me. And my plans revolved around minimal conflict early because of focus on research. With the arrival of the Alphabet in 1660CE, things were looking better. I get Mining, Fishing, Hunting and Animal Husbandry in 1630CE. In 1600CE I find peace, albeit by giving up a tech to Vicky.

1600BCE Archery (Tech Trading)
1480BCE Meditation
1450BCE Bronze Working (TT)
1330BCE Priesthood
1060BCE Polytheism (TT)
1060BCE Masonry (TT)

850BCE was a big year. I discovered Code of Laws AND built the Oracle in Mecca. I chose Civil Service as the free tech. I founded Confucianism in Medina, which finally allowed the city to expand. I sent the missionary to Mecca so that city could finally get some happiness and expand some more. I changed the government to Bureaucracy and Caste Systems and changed the state religion.

730BCE Merit Ptah born in Mecca. Finally have an Academy in Mecca.
685BCE Monarchy (Now the city can really grow and all I need is just some archers to keep people happy )
640BCE Stonehenge complete in Medina
505BCE Metal Casting
280BCE Machinery
235BCE Moses born in Mecca, sent to Medina to build Kong Miao
175BCE Iron Working (TT)
175BCE Sailing (TT)
115BCE Feudalism

85BCE captured Barbarian city, Jute
50CE Mahavira born in Medina, (will soon be used for Theology to enable Theocracy to promote the Camels)
95CE Guilds
125CE Monotheism (no one would trade with me )
140CE Theology (with GP)
170CE Horseback Riding (Camel Archers ready to go!)
200CE Current game date.

Just a note: 145BCE Julius Caeser builds The Pyramids

CONCLUSION
Things are mostly going according to plan. Lacking military punch right now and don't have a production city, but that can be overcome since the Capital can do everything.

The only things I researched tha were not necessary for Guilds were (Alphabet, CoL and CS). And they all helped get to Guilds faster. One exception was Monotheism right before Horseback righting. It only took 2 turns and I didn't want to have the GP waiting much longer to do something.

I think I've used the GPs I've had well. I could probably have gotten though out sooner though. I would like a Great Scientist to get an Academy in Medina but that's not critical. Medina will produce a Merchant or Prophet while Mecca could produce either of those or a Scientist. But I've almost forgotten about them as Guild approached and got ready for the conquest.

I have not cottage spammed as much as I should. I have roads all over the place yet tiles that need worked on aren't. It's a bad obsessive disorder. I don't know why I feel those tiles just HAVE to have roads. I'd be a better player once I get over this complex.

I have three cities, but Jute only has size 1 population and is working on a worker. Yet I still have 16.25% of the world population and 10.92% land area. And oddly enough, in the Demographic screen, I'm #1 in population and #2 in land. And I'm #1 in soldiers because I had been building A LOT of archers to keep Mecca happy, as well as stock military police for the cities I take over.

All this bodes well for a Conquest/Domination Victory, I hope. I think I'm executing my plan pretty well. Toku just attacked HC so I could join the Japs and taken down the #2 scorer in the game. I could go after JC and get the Pyramids. I have several options and since I'm #1 in power, no one would attack me since they can attack the others.




FUTURE WORK
There are various things to consider regarding this work. First, would attacking with Macemen and then reinforcing later with Camels lead to a faster finish? Would it be as enjoyable as seeing Camels parading everywhere?

How many cities would be best to build up to to maintain a good research speed. I'm sure that two is too few, but I don't know how high to go. Even with two cities, and having the capital be a general purpose city, would it be better off to have the second city also be general (since I haven't started building more), or should it be focused on commerce or production?

When do you turn off research? After Engineering? Or do you wait for others to get it and trade if necessary? Do you keep research up to Military Tradition just in case? Or will doing so prevent you from building enough reserves of gold?

What other issues should I have touched on that I didn't?

edit
ADDENDUM
It wouldn't be complete without mentioning how ahead I am in the tech tree. No one else has Alphabet. Only Alex and HC have most of the ancient techs. Only techs anyone has (that I know of) that I don't is Mathematics.


Oh, if I should correct any of this article, please feel free to contact the author. Thank you.

 

[Jove]

Yup, another re-load. I've been creating a seperate folder for each GOTM, but sometimes I forget and save to the general folder. Then I re-load from the GOTM folder, it's the wrong save, I made a couple moves... drat!
So, if the next patch had a feature that allowed one to change the default save folder, I know someone who would use it
While I'm complaining, I wish that, when leaving the city screen or some other screen, the camera would return to where it was last instead of jumping to the last active unit. At least give me the option.
And bravo to Firaxis for the 'no unit cycling' option. I've been waiting. Now all we need is a mouse-clickable button to cycle to the next unit and we'll be in business.

Ok, my game? I'm going diplo. I settled on the east coast to get the fish, pigs, and wheat. With so much food around I built a 1st and 2nd warrior to get the population up and then started a worker. When my warriors found no huts (which is fine with me btw), I felt like I needed to get some dividend out of these units or I'd have wasted my time. So, when I saw one of Tokugawa's workers out there in the boonies, I stole it. The warrior died, but the worker amazingly made it back unescorted. Score! So my strategy got fixed right there- Tokugawa's the bad guy, Liz and Izzy can be my pals, the jury's out on the rest.
There was so many gold-bonuses on the map that I didn't build as many cottages as I did in the test-games. In the short run it was great, but in the long run maybe I was too zealous, I didn't have towns to work until much later than usual.
Rome was nice enough to build the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse in their capitol, we had to capture that. We got the Oracle ourselves, built the Great Library in Medina by all the gold...
Besides that we were rather peaceful, focusing on research and pulling waaaay ahead of the competition in that regard. By 500AD we were 1 turn away from learning Education. Am I making a mistake by learning such an expensive tech by hand so early?

 

[Equendil]

My first submission of a GOTM.

Playing Saladin, I decided to go for a cultural victory, which I had never attempted before. I didn't really know how to go about it, so I just made up my early "strategy" on the fly. My original idea was to settle a few cities quickly and start building up peacefully while avoiding to piss off the other civs until later on when I would be ready for my cultural trigger.

Since I didn't originally plan on submitting a game, I failed to take notes, so this is a rough timeline.

Circa 4000BC:

To settle in place or not ? The spot is nice, coastal with 2 floodplains, pigs, and vines nearby, however, the tiles west of the flood plains look like they may be desert, after moving my warrior, I decide to go for the hill, that will give me a nice additional hammer, and possibly avoid desert tiles. Can't remember if I uncovered the wheat on moving my warrior, but that was a nice bonus. Mecca is founded next turn. I'll later end up with copper and gold in my city cross. Nice.

Since I already know Mysticism I decide to go for an early religion and chose polytheism as my first tech. Meanwhile I immediately begin a worker for chopping. My warrior begins scouting the nearby area.

c. 3460BC:
Mecca founds hinduism. I don't make the switch as I don't want to piss off other civs right away.

When my first worker is ready, I move it to a forest tile to begin chopping for a second worker. At that point, I realize I forgot to learn bronze working, oops. So much for a quick start.

My first warrior soon dies to animals after meeting a couple of my neigbours. No hut popped. I later make a second warrior who will follow the exact same fate, no hut, only a small area uncovered. Damn, definitively not a good start. Still, I learn Isabella the fanatic is one of my neighbours, there's going to be crusades in that game. I also got a peek at a location with stone, maybe I'll go for early wonders. I use one of my two workers to make a road to that location so it's ready for settling.

c. 1870BC. Medina, my (hopefully) second cultural city is founded NW near the stone, gems and gold, much later than I intended to due to blunders at the beginning of the game. It's in the middle of jungle, which isn't going to make my growth any faster. I begin a worker immediately there. Mecca soon begins work on a pyramid. I only uncovered the immediate areas around my original city, but I can't afford losing time on scouts or more warriors, so I'll stay in the dark for a while, it's too late for huts also.

c. 985BC. Pyramids are built in Mecca! Stonehenge is still for grab, and only takes a few turns to build, I go for it.

c. 910BC. Stonehenge is built in Mecca.

c.805BC. At long last, my second settler is ready. I found Damascus, my third cultural city, NE of mecca, next to the four tiles of dye, and a patch of copper (and a barbarian settlement to the east. Again in the middle of jungle tiles. Mecca is building another settler.

c. 655BC. My first great prophet, I build the hinduist shrine in Mecca. My third settler founds Bagdad north of Medina, near cows, banana and rice, not all too sure what I'll make of that city, I vaguely intend to grow it fast and turn it into a GP factory, but on the other hand, clearing all the jungle is going to take a long time, and Mecca is building the Parthenon, so I'll soon forget about that idea.

c. 250BC. The Parthenon is built in Mecca.

C. 220BC. Barbarians have been settling in several locations around my civilization and are being a nuisance, I had a few axemen to deal with them along with my original warriors. I had one parked in Bagdad. Out of habbit, I move it to a jungle tile for defense against the incoming barbarian axeman. Why ? I don't know, the barbarian was already next to my city. The AI is not as dumb as me and attacks the warrior in Badgad. City razed. DOH! I start a settle in Mecca immediately. Within the next couple turn, I also lose a worker to another barbarian unit. Arghh.

c. 10BC. Bagdad Najran is founded :S My cities are building axemen to take on barbarians settlements.

c. 110 AD. Victoria converts to Hinduism. Thanks, I have the shrine, that'll help my finances.

The Spanish war
c. 170AD. While I'm getting ready to deal with barbarians, Isabella declares war on me, without so much of a warning! Barbarians will have to wait.

c. 230AD. Julius Caesar also converts to Hinduism. Great news. I make hinduism my state religion a few turns later, I'm already at war with Isabella anyway.

c. 425AD. A barbarian settlement, Visigoth, revolts and joins my small empire. Location is on the coast too close to Medina, but oh well, I'll make it a production city. It's got fish, cows, and gold. Isabella who didn't seem ready for war captures Gaul, another barbarian settlement, near some patch of iron and incense in the desert.

c. 455AD. Gaul is mine, I'm not going to leave iron to Isabella.

c. 560AD. Isabella tries to sneak a settler though, I intercepted one of her escorts, but she still manages to settle Murcia on the coast.

c. 635AD. I raze Murcia and make peace with Isabella. I now have two more peripheral cities that will support my cultural core, time to build up.

Starting around 0AD, Alexander had been steadily rampaging on the Incan territory, I had little idea what was going on then, but the Incan were quickly falling in score. I'm pretty much ahead in tech, though Victoria is close. My cities need a lot of work still, I'm going to need more workers. Another blunder though, I set Mecca on "no growth" at some point and forgot to switch back to normal for many many turns. Overall, not a great start, but I'm doing fine, I've got my three cultural cities and three peripheral cities, and my early wonders are going to help some.