GOTM 143 Spoiler

[Inkerman]

The first 11 turns

I started this one ten days ago and have played quite a long way.

Regular readers will know I normally play to a landing ending, using a science city and democracy, with technical development tending to be a wee bit slower than the fastest players.

Viewed as a whole the large map is a splendid creation indeed. No doubt we can all think that our bit of the world might have been arranged slightly differently but it undoubtedly looks very nice. Although its size means it will take 200+ cities, it is mostly not such friendly terrain as the game's map generation creates. There are some areas that are fertile, but also a lot of patches where experience shows the AI will struggle to achieve its normal progress. I don't think this is a situation for OCC for me.

The place we start, on the west of South America, is one of those more difficult patches. There are admittedly a couple of the game's best special, whales, but there is very little grass, no forest, and few reasonable city sites. Venezuela is the nearest area that has more going for it, but most promising is Brazil and Argentina which look fantastic. The thing must be to use the Amazon river system to speed travel to there. And that has the additional benefit of collecting some huts on the way, often a good strategy on large maps.

The question is should we build Cuzco immediately, or in Venezuela, or in Brazil? The benefits of not squandering early turns have become clear from all the logs that are posted in the forum, but corruption in the early game is the disadvantage. Well maybe we can move the Palace later, I don't want to spend eight turns just moving, but equally I don't want to start here as I think that will mean it will take ages to bring Brazil/Argentina into play. Let's go and get a unit from the first hut, there is a good chance it will be a 2-move mercenary.

4000- move onto river
3950- pop hut in Amazon - NON chariot. Phew.
3900- chariot pops a hut - 100g. Settler moves north.
3850- moving
3800- chariot pops hut - HBR. Settler founds Cuzco at (33,73). Start on CB.
3750- pay 19g RB warriors.
3700- chariot pops hut - nomads - this is the key piece of luck - it is good timing and it is 3or4sq from a 4-special site next to previous hut. Warrior goes NE.
3650- warrior pops hut - weeds.
3600- move of nomads to preferred site succeeds. Chariot pops hut - 25g. 13g PRB settlers in Cuzco.
3550- found Quito at (52,83). There is corruption, it is virtually only half a city for now, but it is a great site for the science city.
3500- 13g PRB settlers in Cuzco.

So it seems to depend quite a bit on the huts, if it hadn't been a 2-move unit then good luck with the second hut would be needed to keep the same pace. If the nomad had come in the north things would have been more compact initially, so less corruption. And if there hadn't been nomads at all - well the game would just be very slow to get going I suppose.

I hope you had reasonable luck!

 

[haleewud]

The first 11 turns

3700- chariot pops hut - nomads - this is the key piece of luck - it is good timing and it is 3or4sq from a 4-special site next to previous hut. Warrior goes NE.
3650- warrior pops hut - weeds.
3600- move of nomads to preferred site succeeds. Chariot pops hut - 25g. 13g PRB settlers in Cuzco.
3550- found Quito at (52,83). There is corruption, it is virtually only half a city for now, but it is a great site for the science city.

Are your co-ordinates correct? I cannot find a square that has 52,83 co-ordinates. I think you mean 51,83. I did build a city on that site in my game (although in my game it was my 14th city). But, more on that later.

 

[Inkerman]

I cannot find a square that has 52,83 co-ordinates. I think you mean 51,83.
I did build a city on that site in my game (although in my game it was my 14th city).

You are right, game coordinates are of course either both odd or both even. You guessed correctly which place I meant.

My 14th city (Tumbes, if using the Inca names) is nearby, at (45,91) - one square inland is the sort of site the AI chooses!

 

[Inkerman]

So already 2 cities separated by the Amazon basin, a warrior in the north and a chariot in the south.

An account mainly of further hut pops.

3450- Warrior pops hut - Bronze. Pushes out next discovery (CB).
Chariot pops hut - AT of Chan Chan (43,97).
Has silk (which it can't yet see) and corruption.
Chariot reveals silk - of limited use because of corruption.
Nice no barbs yet, but slight pity those pops weren't the other way round.
3400- Decide warrior will take a 21-turn trek to North America - may be some time until we hear of them again.
3350-
3300- Chariot pops hut - 50g. Warrior built at Quito.
Move Cuzco worker to jewels for extra science.
3250- Discover CB -> Alphabet. Cuzco size 2.
Spend 19g PRB Settlers Quito, 25g RB Settlers Cuzco.
3200- Cuzco builds Settlers - they go north.
3150- Chariot pops hut - Currency.
3100- Settlers found Chucuito (34,68) - will be Cuzco's port.
Spend 8g PRB Settlers Quito, 6g PRB Settlers Chan Chan.
3050- Spend 13g PRB Settlers Cuzco, 22g PRB Settlers Chan Chan.
3000- Spend 13g PRB Settlers Chucuito.

Summary of huts:
Chariot
100g
HBR
Nomads
weeds
25g
Bronze
Tribe
50g
Currency

Very nice to have some money for the partial rushes now happening, and to avoid barbs and unwanted techs. Average luck with nomads/tribes which are the factor that perhaps makes the most difference.

Maybe 1% into the game now and a lot of how it compares to others is already determined?

Next hut is the one in Patagonia.

 

[haleewud]

I started my game last weekend and have played fairly far into the game.
My game was considerably different from Inkerman's. I decided to build in place (moving one square first to give Cuzco both whales) and then building settlers.
I am not sure why I didn't follow a similar path (to Inkerman's) to get the first hut before founding Quito (at 32,74), but I didn't.
I didn't build my first warrior until after building 2 settlers in Cuzco, so I didn't pop the first hut until -2350.
My reward for waiting so long was Pottery, which delayed the development of Monarchy and made me think about early republic. I decided against it because I was afraid of the extra food support.


-4000 Move NW
-3950 Cuzco founded
-3900 Start Alphabet (10)
-3800 RB 1sh
-3700 Alphabet -> Code of Laws (22)
-3400 Cuzco size 2
-3300 Cuzco builds settler
-3200 Code of Laws -> Writing (30)
-3150 RB 1sh
-3000 Quito founded

stats at -3000:
pop.: .02M; cities: 2; techs: 2, gov: Despotism, gold: 17; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: None
wonders: None
Footprint: 2 cities in Americas

Russians: No Contact
Japanese: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact
Chinese: No Contact
Indians: No Contact

-2850 Quito RB 4sh
-2650 Writing -> Ceremonial Burial (48), Cuzco Settler
-2500 Quito RB 6sh
-2450 Cuzco Warrior
-2350 Hut (79,39) -> Pottery (60)
-2300 Quito Settler, Chan Chan founded, RB Cuzco 4sh
-2150 Bar Horse seen in Jungle, warrior fortifies, Chucuito founded
-2100 Warrior survives horse attack, becoms Vet, RB Quito 2sh, Chan Chan 2sh
-2050 CB -> Literacy (72), Hut -> Archer

stats at -2000:
pop.: .04M; cities: 4; techs: 5, gov: Despotism, gold: 27; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Warriors, 1 Archers
wonders: None
Footprint: 4 cities in Americas

Russians: No Contact
Japanese: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact
Chinese: No Contact
Indians: No Contact

-1850 Cuzco Settler, Hut -> Advance Tribe Ayaviri
-1650 Literacy -> Monarchy (84)
-1600 Barb Horse near Ayaviri, Hut -> 25, Vilcashauman founded
-1550 Barbs demand 50 from Ayaviri, Paid, RB Chuucuito 5sh
-1500 Chan Chan settler, Quito settler
-1400 Egyptians start Pyramids, RB Vilcashauman 2sh
-1350 Acari founded, Tambo Colorado founded, T/L/S = 2/6/2
-1250 Monarchy -> Bronze Working (96), REVOLUTION, Monarchy established, Hut -> Legion, T/L/S = 3/0/7
-1200 Cuzco Settler, Hut-> Chariot, Hut -> HBR (117)
-1100 Chucuito Settler, Hut -> Map Making (140)
-1000 Hut -> Legion, Hut -> 25, Hut -> Polytheism (154), RB Tambo Colorado 1sh

stats at -1000:
pop.: .14M; cities: 8; techs: 10, gov: Monarchy, gold: 123; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Settlers, 6 Warriors, 1 Archers, 2 Legion, 1 Chariot
wonders: None
Footprint: 8 cities in Americas

Russians: No Contact
Japanese: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact
Chinese: No Contact
Indians: No Contact

 

[haleewud]

It looks like my decision to forego an explorer has severely hampered my development.
I am significantly behind Inkerman at 3000BC. Him getting 175g, 2 Tech and 2 cities from 10 huts, when I haven't even popped one puts me so far behind, I will probably never catch up. My status at 2000BC is probably still behind Inkerman's at 3000BC.

Here are my first 11 huts.
-2350 Hut (79,39) -> Pottery (60)
-2050 Hut -> Archer
-1850 Hut -> Advance Tribe Ayaviri
-1600 Hut -> 25
-1250 Hut -> Legion
-1200 Hut-> Chariot
-1200 Hut -> HBR (117)
-1100 Hut -> Map Making (140)
-1000 Hut -> Legion
-1000 Hut -> 25
-1000 Hut -> Polytheism (154)

So, 11 huts, gave me 4 tech, 50 gold, 4 units (only 1 fast) and 1 Tribe. This wasn't really bad, but it was considerably worse than Inkerman's. Of course the fact that he had his 10th hut in 3150BC and I didn't get mine until 1000BC means that I am way behind.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I decided against moving off the initial position for the following reasons:
1. No good SSC site nearby
2. The other whale accessible by Galapagos which I intend to settle soon

I contemplated several starting strategies:
1. Size 1 settler. Rejected. Had to use mountains too many turns and no great location for capital's second worker.
2. Warrior followed by settler. Rejected. First hut can be tipped by settler with only 1 turn loss of movement. Could get not one, but two techs before a possible off track tech from hut (which is actually what happened)

Finally decided to go with producing settler, tipping hut, and producing a warrior if the hut does not give a unit.

Date Notes

-4000 Cuzco founded. Settler started.
-3950 -> Alphabet
-3750 Alphabet -> Code of Laws.
-3450 Cuzco is size 2.
-3350 Settler produced.
-3250 Code of Laws -> Bronze. Mapmaking from hut.
-3150 Science city of Quito founded at 35,82 with access to two fruits and two gems. First warrior produced.
-3050 Chariot from hut.
-2900 Archer from hut.
-2700 Empty hut. 50g from hut.
-2650 Nomad from hut.
-2600 Bronze -> Burial.
-2500 Advanced tribe founds Chan Chan next to river in Argentina. Warrior disbanded.
-2450 25g from hut.
-2350 50g from hut.
-2300 Chucuito founded.
-2200 Horseman from hut.
-2050 Burial -> Currency.
-2000 Legion from southern most American hut. Horseman disbanded. Ayaviri founded.

Status at -2000
Population: 0.07M; Cities: 5; Techs: 5; Government: Despotism
Gold: 67; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 2 Settlers (1 None), 1 Archer, 1 Legion, 1 Chariot
Goals: Monarchy, Trade
Russians: no contact
Japanese: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
Chinese: no contact
orange: no contact
Indian: no contact

Hut outcomes:
-3250 Mapmaking from hut.
-3050 Chariot from hut.
-2900 Archer from hut.
-2700 Empty hut. 50g from hut.
-2650 Nomad from hut.
-2500 Advanced tribe
-2450 25g from hut.
-2350 50g from hut.
-2200 Horseman from hut.
-2000 Legion from southern most American hut.

My hut luck was good but not great. The first one was one notch above terrible (off Monarchy-path but useful tech). The chariot that came next was most welcome. Afterwards it was quite nice though I wish I had the Nomad a bit sooner.

 

[Inkerman]

The story of hut outcomes continued....

2950- Chariot pops Patagonia hut - AT Ayaviri (36,112) - it has a whale, and of course lots of corruption for now (two thirds of money will be lost to corruption at the next checkpoint in 2000BC.)
2900-
2850-
2800- Chariot is heading back N.
2750- We are told we are the second most advanced.
2700- Ayaviri completes warriors.
2650- Discover Alphabet -> CoL. 13g RB Settlers Chan Chan.
2600- Chan Chan and Quito build Settlers.
2550-
2500- Cuzco builds Settlers. Found Vilcashuaman (42,100).

2450- Chucuito builds Settlers.
2400- The warrior we last heard of 1000 years ago pops hut North America - we hold our breath - archers, supported from Chucuito.
Settlers start building first road, just west of Cuzco.
2350- Found Acari (47,89), Tambo Colorado (30,68). Both are plains.
Tambo is in capital cluster - not suffering corruption and gives 2 science.
2300- Archer pops hut - CoL.
2250- Start on Monarchy. Found Jauja (30,76), on rivered hill near Cuzco.
2200-
2150-
2100- Discover Monarchy -> Trade. Revolution.
Chariot pops hut - Archers (Jauja).
Warrior pops hut - Mapmaking.
2050- Become Monarchy. Barbs north of Quito.
Pop hut - mercenary horse (Tambo).
Science at 70% - 8 tax, 17 science.
2000- Pop hut by Great Lakes - Nomads.

Now done 7 more huts for a total of 17. The long walk of the warrior to North America has paid off with the nomads so we will be able to get going there too soon.

I think it is much more likely that early in the game you end up with either a tribe or nomads than the unit is lost to barbs but we still count our good fortune. In this game we first extra explorers, which was helpful in getting to huts more quickly.

The hut popping strategy seems to have worked very well. As well as good luck, I have been helped by knowing where to look (yes, I know they can be worked out on any map but I have never done that.) As well as the nomads, the techs that have come have all been useful.

We are now discovering trade; it will take 6 or 7 more turns, unless hut pops throw us out.

Stats

Cities: 9. Pop: 13. 4 are in the capital group in Northern S America. Rest in Southern S America. Government: Monarchy.
Techs: 8. We're #1 in science!
1 settler, 6 warriors, 2 archers, 1 horseman, 1 chariot.
26g. No buildings.
No contact with others.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

It looks like my decision to forego an explorer has severely hampered my development.
I am significantly behind Inkerman at 3000BC. Him getting 175g, 2 Tech and 2 cities from 10 huts, when I haven't even popped one puts me so far behind, I will probably never catch up. My status at 2000BC is probably still behind Inkerman's at 3000BC.

Huts are a gamble. They can help you tremendously but they can also hurt you. Overall, the odds are in your favor so you should not delay it too much. But the luck factor matters a lot. At -3000, you and I each have two cities; Inkerman has 4 with two coming from huts. At this point he is twice our size. It is little wonder that he is twice our size in -2000 as well.

Surely, the fact that he tipped his first hut in -3950 vs. -3250 for me and -2350 for you matters. But what matters more, a lot more, are the hut outcomes. His first hut gave him a fast unit, for us it was an off path tech. Had he also gotten an off path tech for his first hut he would have been behind us since I founded my first city in -4000, you in -3950, and he in -3800. Furthermore, you and I researched our first tech at the cost of 10; he would have had double that cost. And his luck did not stop there, two of the next 3 hut outcomes were ideal as well: Nomad and 100g.

My point is that we would not have necessarily done as well had we gone hut hunting earlier. I took a safer path of wanting a couple of techs researched before my first hut outcome (which gave me exactly what I feared: an off tech path); you took an even safer path. He gambled and his gamble paid off big time.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

-1850 Vilcashuaman founded.
-1650 Currency -> Monarchy
-1500 Acari founded.
-1450 Advanced tribe founds Tambo Colorado.
-1400 First Trireme produced.
-1250 Monarchy -> Trade. Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Horseman from North American hut.
-1150 First offshore city, Galapagos, founded. Barbarian horseman from N. American hut.
-1100 Barbarian horseman kills my horse.
-1050 Barbarian horseman from N. American hut.
-1000 Archer survives barbarian horse and turns vet. Trade -> Writing. T7L0S3

Status at -1000
Population: 0.2M; Cities: 9; Techs: 8; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 3; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 5 Settlers (1 None), 1 warrior, 1 Archer, 1 Legion, 1 Chariot, 1 Trireme
Goals: Marco, Colossus
Russians: no contact
Japanese: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
Chinese: no contact
orange: no contact
Indian: no contact

-0950 Pumpu founded.
-0800 Huanuco Pampa founded.
-0775 Writing -> Mysticism. Cajamarca founded.
-0750 Cusibamba and Tumbes founded.
-0700 Marco built. Nomad from N. American hut.
Monarchy, Writing, Trade, Currency -> Greek (5) -> peace, Seafaring, Pottery, Construction
Writing , Trade, Seafaring, Mapmaking -> Chinese (2) -> Mysticism, peace, maps
Mapmaking, Construction -> Japanese (1) -> Iron working, peace
Construction, Mysticism, Seafaring -> Russian (0) -> Wheel, peace, maps
-0675 -> Bridge Building. T3L0S7. Tomebamba founded. Tambo Colorado relocated.
-0650 Egyptians build Pyramids. Barbarians land near Chan Chan.
-0600 Barbarian archer kills my legion. Beads from Galapagos to Quito for 76 establishes the first trade route.
-0575 Barbarians killed. 25g from hut.
-0550 Bridge Building -> Literacy. Trade, Monarchy, Iron Working -> Egyptian (4) -> peace, Literacy, maps.
-0525 -> Engineering. Greek -> maps.

Status at -0500
Population: 0.55M; Cities: 15; Techs: 17; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 6; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 2D0F;
Wonders: Marco
Units: 6 Settlers (2 None), 10 warriors, 1 Archer, 1 Legion, 2 Chariot, 1 Trireme, 5 vans
Goals: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Russians: 3 cities, 12 techs ; war with Egyptians and Chinese
Japanese: 2 cities, 10 techs ;
Egyptian: 7 cities, 18 techs ; Pyramids; War with Russians
Chinese: 4 cities, 16 techs ; war with Russians
orange: 5 cities, 18 techs ;
Indian: 5 cities, 13 techs ;

 

[Inkerman]

Huts are a gamble. They can help you tremendously but they can also hurt you. Overall, the odds are in your favor so you should not delay it too much. But the luck factor matters a lot.

Surely, the fact that he tipped his first hut in -3950 vs. -3250 for me and -2350 for you matters. But what matters more, a lot more, are the hut outcomes. His first hut gave him a fast unit, for us it was an off path tech. Had he also gotten an off path tech for his first hut he would have been behind us since I founded my first city in -4000, you in -3950, and he in -3800. Furthermore, you and I researched our first tech at the cost of 10; he would have had double that cost. And his luck did not stop there, two of the next 3 hut outcomes were ideal as well: Nomad and 100g.

I think my first post indicates I recognised some good fortune had come my way. The main hazard is the off-path tech leading to the tech tree going out of control - as happened to me in the previous GotM - and I didn't get that this time.

The post did encourage me to look into the situation a bit more carefully than I had done when originally planning the game. That analysis was not more than reported in the post.
1. Argentina/Brazil = most desirable, Venezuela = next best.
2. Opportunity to take hut and odds that it will help, especially if a 2-move mercenary.
3. Not good to delay capital establishment but the group of five grassland squares two moves north of the first hut look quite a nice place to start.

So what are the chances with the first hut?

Samson wrote about hut outcomes. This suggests Horse 20%, Chariot 10%, Archer 30%, gold 20%, on-path tech 10%, off-path tech 10%.

But note this ingenious game does have a lot of little exception rules that mean odds for outcomes when first/swamp/no_city_yet/Emperor may be unique. My own tests just now - easy when your name is Atawallpa means the auto file comes top of the list - with classic version - gave money less often than expected from the theory, but was otherwise a good match.

The fast unit I actually got (30% chance) was great because with the river system it brought the southern huts into the game quickly. The 60% combined chance of Archers (used to go south also), money and on-path tech all compensate for the later foundation of Cuzco. And the 10% chance of off-path tech would have been disappointing and left me well behind. Oh the tension you feel before pressing "enter" when you know you have to live with the outcome for dozens of hours of play ahead!

 

[haleewud]

I continue the slow expansion. I had my second Barbarian problem in -875/-850. I didn't think my warrior could survive an Archer attack, so I paid the fine.
No Huts during this period. I have very few explorers out. I am just getting into North America. Huanuco Pampa is in Florida (used Trireme) and Cajamarca is in Mexico. Most Warriors are on police duty.
I am a bit behind Ali at this time (3 cities and 4 techs). Trade was discovered near the end, so Vans and Wonders will be coming soon.

-975 Jauja founded
-950 BW -> Currency (180)
-875 Barbs land near Chucuito, Warrior in city moves outside (leaves city undefended), Spend 87 in RBs to lower treasury
-850 Barbs demand 50 from Chucuito, given
-825 Tambo Colorado settler, Vilcashauman settler, Chan Chan settler
-800 Quito Settler, Cuzco Settler
-775 Currency -> Trade (234)
-750 Ayaviri Settler
-725 Heliopolis builds Pyramids, Pumpa founded
-700 Huanuco Pampa founded
-650 Cajamarca founded
-575 Acari settler, Trade -> Masonry (252)
-550 Tambo Colorado settler

stats at -500:
pop.: .42M; cities: 12; techs: 13, gov: Monarchy, gold: 232; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 6 Settlers, 10 Warriors, 2 Legion, 1 Chariot, 1 Trireme
wonders: None
Footprint: 12 cities in Americas

Russians: No Contact
Japanese: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact, Pyramids
Greeks: No Contact
Chinese: No Contact
Indians: No Contact

 

[Ali Ardavan]

-0450 Literacy -> Chinese -> Polytheism, maps. Literacy -> Indian -> peace, maps. T7L0S3
-0425 50g from hut.
-0375 Hanging Gardens built. Chinese (working since -875) and Indians switch to Great Library; Greeks to Colossus. Gift of Literacy worked as planned. Quito celebrates. Panama founded. Wheel -> Japanese (1) -> Math, maps.
-0350 Pisac founded.
-0325 First structure, a temple in Quito, built.
-0300 Russians and Greeks ally against Egyptians.
-0275 Bridge Building -> Egyptian (5) -> Republic, maps.
-0250 Greeks have nearly finished Colossus. I was planning on finishing it in 2 turns. Fortunately I can pull it off with a cost of half a dozen shields. Limatambo founded. None legion from N. American hut. Revolution started.
-0225 Colossus built. Greeks switch to Great Library as well. Republic established. T1L8S1
-0200 All cities size 3 and above celebrate.
-0175 50g from hut.
-0150 Barbarian horseman from Cuban hut. Bermuda founded. All but Quito cannot celebrate any longer. T3L4S3.
-0125 Barbarian horseman disappears. Nomad from N. American hut.
-0100 Japanese land in North America. Haiti founded. 25g from hut.
-0075 Chinese build Great Library. Greek switch and build Lighthouse. Engineering -> Philosophy. Ica founded at the southern most tip of S. America.
+0001 Inkawasi founded. Horseback riding from hut.

Status at +1
Population: 1.5M; Cities: 23; Techs: 22; Government: Republic
Gold: 2; Cost: 4; Trade routes: 2D0F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Units: 10 Settlers (3 None), 1 warriors, 1 Archer, 2 Legion (1 none), 2 Chariot, 2 Trireme, 10 vans
Goals: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Russians: 3 cities, 17 techs ; war with Indians, Egyptians, and Chinese, allied with Greeks
Japanese: 3 cities, 15 techs ;
Egyptian: 7 cities, 21 techs ; Pyramids; War with Russians and Greeks
Chinese: 5 cities, 25 techs ; Great Library; war with Russians
Greek: 7 cities, 22 techs ; Lighthouse; war with Egyptians, allied with Russians
Indian: 6 cities, 21 techs ; War with Russians

 

[Inkerman]

1950-
1900- Ayaviri Settlers. Chariot kills barbs.
1850- Chucuito Settlers. Found Pumpu (32,34).
1800- Quito Settlers.
1750-
1700- Chan Chan Settlers. Discover Trade -> Mysticism.
Hut - Masonry. Hut - Barbs - 1 horseman.
Barb horse defeated as it attacks archers.
1650- Hut - Nomads - need to go back towards Pumpu.
1600- Cuzco Settlers. Found Huanuco Pampa (41,85) on south edge of Amazon.
and Cajamarca (44,94) near Chan Chan.
1550- Civil disorder Pumpu as it grows to 2, Vilcashuaman, as it grows to 3.
Found Cusibamba (38,108) in Patagonia.
1500- Civil disorder Cuzco as it grows to 2.
Hut - mercenary horse Pumpu.
1450-
1400- Acari Settlers.
1350- Ayaviri Settlers.
1300- Discover Mysticism -> Writing. Vilcashuaman Settlers.
Hut - barbs - 8 horsemen. Hut - Maths.
Reduce Science to 40% - gives 21t, 13s.
Found Tumbes (45,91) in southern “city chain”.
Archers lost.
1250- Chan Chan Settlers. Quito Settlers.
Found Tomebamba (38,34) at 3-special site in north near Pumpu.
Barb landing Patagonia.
1200- Tambo Colorado Settlers.
1150- Jauja van. Warriors lost attacking barb archers.
Hut Caribbean island - 50g.
1100- Hut (NW) - mercenary legion NON.
Egyptians start Pyramids.
Warrior holds off attack by wounded barb archer.
1050- Pumpu settlers. Found Pucara (38,64) on Caribbean island #37.
Capture barb leader -100g. Hut - Warrior Code. Allows more PRB.
1000- Civil disorder Tambo Colorado.

Stats

Cities: 16. Pop: 27. 4 are in the capital group in Northern S America, and 9 in Southern S America. 2 in N America. 1 on Caribbean island.
Government: Monarchy.
Techs: 13. We're #1 in science.
7 settler, 13 warriors, 1 archer, 1 legion, 3 horsemen, 1 chariot, 1 trireme, 1 van.
108g. No buildings.
No contact with others.

 

[Inkerman]

975- Found Machu Picchu (39,103).
950- Barb horseman next to settlers nr Pumpu.
925- Horseman kills barb horse.
Barb landing west coast of S America.
900- Found Manaus (38,78) on drained sq in heart of Amazon.
875- Found Limatambo (29,59) on island #33 in Caribbean.
This 19th city seems to have made civil disorder with no lux v tricky.
So lux to 30%.
Down to last 5g.
Chinese start Pyramids.
850-
825- Our original NON chariot kills barb archer by Jauja.
Road network in south reaches reasonable state.
800- Cuzco completes Marco Polo Embassy. We're supreme.


Russians: () Neutral. 270g. Met C, G, I. 3 cities, 10 techs incl Iron, Pottery.
Japanese: () Icy. 225g. 2 cities. 7 techs incl Iron, Polytheism.
us - Incas 47g. 13 techs.
Egyptians: () Icy. 209g. Met G, I. 3 cities, 13 techs incl Iron, Pottery, Writing.
Chinese: () Receptive. 167g. Met R, I. 7 cities, 11 techs incl Iron, Pottery, Seafaring, Writing.
Greeks: () Neutral. 394g. Met R, E, I. 3 cities, 13 techs incl Iron, Pottery.
Indians: () Icy. 346g. Met, R, E, C, G. 3 cities, 10 techs incl Iron, Pottery.

R and C are at war.
E and C working on wonder (Pyramids.)

Indians are missing Currency, Monarchy, Mysticism, Trade, Warrior Code.
Egyptians are missing Maths, Trade, Warrior Code.
Chinese are missing Currency, Maths, Monarchy, Mysticism, Trade, Warrior Code.
R J G have Warrior Code.
G is missing Maths and Trade.
E C are researching Literacy.

Indians(2): Give Mysticism, Trade, Monarchy. Peace. Get Pottery. Swap maps.
Egyptians(3): Give Trade, Maths. Peace. Get Writing.
Chinese (5): Give Trade, Monarchy, Mysticism. Peace. Get Seafaring. Swap maps.
Russians (1): Give Maths, Mysticism, Seafaring. Peace. They don't like Chinese.
So Greeks (4) and Japanese (0).

775- Russians get Monarchy from Chinese, Chinese get Currency from Russians.
Start on Literacy. (233/306). Hut: 50g. RB 16g+25g, PRB 4g,4g,2g. Found Raqchi (41,95).
750- (250/306). PRB 13g,19g.

Russians: (1) Cordial, Peace. 270g. 4 cities, 14 techs incl Iron.
Japanese: (0) Receptive. 233g. 2 cities. 7 techs incl Iron, Polytheism.
us - Incas 47g. 16 techs.
Egyptians: (3) Receptive, Peace. 213g. 3 cities, 15 techs incl Iron.
Chinese: (5) Enthusiastic, Peace. 170g. 7 cities, 15 techs incl Iron.
Greeks: (4) Neutral. 412g. 3 cities, 13 techs incl Iron.
Indians: (2) Cordial, Peace. 346g. 3 cities, 13 techs incl Iron.

 

[Inkerman]

725- Vilcashuaman builds Hanging Gardens.
Hut: horse. Hut (Alaska): nomads.
700- Lux at 40% - 2 cities celebrate - it's not enough.
Trireme with 2 settlers sets off from N America for Europe. Set lux back to 0%.
675- Discover Literacy -> Polytheism.
Swap Mapmaking to Japanese for Polytheism. Peace. Give Maths. Swap maps.
650- Egyptians develop Literacy. Greeks and Egyptians swap. Russians and Chinese swap.
Start on Philosophy. Hut: 50g.
Found Panama (24,66), Ica (40,98).
625- Found Inkawasi (175,21).
600- Huanoco Pampa builds temple - our first building.
575- Hut: Ele. Found Lurin (35,99).
Egyptians nearly done Pyramids. Chinese and Greeks swap.
550- Hut: Legion. Found Tarma Tambo (47,79).
Thebes builds Pyramids.Chinese change to Colossus. Chinese and Egyptians swap.
525- Quito builds market. Hut: Barbs.
500- Quito builds Colossus. Chinese change to GL.
Van, Quito-ChanChan, Gems, for 30g.
Found Edinburgh (67,19).
Give Mysticism and Pottery to Japanese(0) - it makes no impression on their attitude.
Give Literacy and Seafaring to Indians(1) - and update maps.
Egypt(4) swaps maps.

Stats

Cities: 26. Pop: 57. Some scattered outposts now - Scotland, Alaska.
Government; Monarchy
Techs: 18. We're #1 in science. Buildings Cost: 2.
3 settler, 20 warriors, 1 archer, 2 legion, 3 horsemen, 1 chariot, 1 ele, 2 trireme, 7 van.
96g.
Wonders: MPE, HG, Colossus.

Russians: () Neutral, Peace. 319g. 4 cities, 15 techs incl Iron.
Japanese: (0) Neutral, Peace. 254g. 2 cities. 11 techs incl Iron.
us - Incas 96g.18 techs.
Egyptians: (4) Enthusiastic, Peace. 238g. 3 cities, 18 techs incl Iron excl Polytheism.
Chinese: (5) Enthusiastic, Peace. 170g. 7 cities, 18 techs incl Iron excl Polytheism.
Greeks: () Neutral. 502g. 3 cities, 15 techs incl Iron.
Indians: (1) Enthusiastic, Peace. 397g. 3 cities, 15 techs incl Iron.

 

[Inkerman]

475- Indians develop Writing.
Van Pucara-Vilcashuaman, Hides, for 80g. Increase science.
450- Discover Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Republic. 1m people.
Van Tumbes-Limatambo, Cloth(und), for 24g. Hut(Scotland): 25g.
425- Greeks develop Wheel. Japanese develop Mysticism.
400- Greeks acquire Seafaring. Russians and Greeks cancel peace treaty.
Found Ancon (34,38), Cotopachi (27,81).
375- Found Amsterdam (72,26).
350- Egyptians get Wheel from Greeks, for Literacy. Russians develop Wheel.
Van, Pucara-Huanuco Pampa, Beads, for 68g.
Van, Chucuito-Quito, Spice, for 48g.
325- Chinese develop Republic. Barbs near Cotopachi, and barbs already near Lurin.
300- Disorder Limatombo, Vilcashuaman.
250- Barb leader - 100g. Hut (Iceland): nomads.
225- Argentina - Crusaders hold off barb archer (poss vet) attack to become vet.
Huanoco Pampa builds Michaelangelo's Chapel.
Van, Chan Chan - Limatambo, Wool, for 68g.
Swap Philosophy to Chinese(5) for Republic.
Swap Republic to Indians(1) for Iron.
Swap Republic to Egyptians(3) for Wheel.
Give Philosophy, Wheel, Seafaring to Indians.

200- Chinese acquire University. Start on Astronomy. We give Wheel for University.
175-
150- Greeks start GL. Russians capture Greek Corinth, taking Literacy.
Hut (South Sweden): AT Hamburg.
Remember to trigger revolution.
125- Chinese abandon GL. Russians start GL.
Become Republic.
100- Chinese start GL. Lux at 40% - lots of WLTCD
Market Pucara.
Discover Astronomy -> Construction.
75- Chinese acquire Feudalism.
Van, Machu Picchu - Pucara, Silver, for 184g.
Van, Chucuito-Cusibamba, Beads, for 68g.
Give University to Indians.
50- Egyptians develop Construction.
Courthouse Quito.
Swap Philosophy to Egyptians for Construction. Give to Indians.
Hut(Holland): Legion.
25- Russians acquire Writing. Start on Medicine.
Harbour Pucara. Temple Vilcashuaman.
Quito builds Copernicus.
Van, Cuzco-Edinburgh, Hides, for 216g.
Found Catequil.
1AD- Harbour Inkawasi. Market Chucuito.

1AD stats:
Cities: 31. Pop: 115. 9 Central/ N S America & Caribbean, 15 S S America, 3 in Europe, 1 Alaska, 3 in N America.
Techs: 26. Buildings Cost: 8.
8 settler, 16 war's, 1 phalanx, 1 archer, 3 legion, 3 horse, 1 chariot, 1 ele, 4 trireme, 3 dips, 18 vans.
Wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE, Michaelangelo, Copernicus.

Russians: (4) Receptive, Peace. 379g. 6 cities, 18 techs.
Japanese: (0) Receptive, Peace. 344g. 3 cities. 10 techs.
us - Incas 608g. 26 techs.
Egyptians: (3) Enthusiastic, Peace. 259g. 3 cities, 22 techs. Pyramids.
Chinese: (5) Enthusiastic, Peace. 265g. 10 cities, 23 techs.
Greeks: (2) Neutral. 460g. 4 cities, 18 techs.
Indians: (1) Enthusiastic, Peace. 457g. 3 cities, 20 techs.

Give Astronomy to Indians, University to Egyptians, Philosophy to Russians.
Give Philosophy, Republic, Construction to Greeks to get map.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+0020 Havana and Guatemala founded.
+0040 Indians build Great Wall. Domestic offshore hides for 96.
+0060 Barbarian legion lands in southern S. America. 50g from hut. Advanced tribe founds Saskatchewan.
+0080 Barbarian legion kills my vet Chariot. Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Medicine. Barbarian legion bribed for 82g. Philosophy -> Chinese -> Banking. T4L3S3
+0140 Jamaica founded. Invention from hut.
+0160 Chan Chan relocated.
+0180 Domestic deliveries for 75, 86. T3L3S4
+0220 Medicine -> Sanitation. Domestic delivery for 52.
+0240 Michelangelo built. Nomad from Alaskan hut.
+0280 None legion and 25g from hut.
+0320 Florida founded.
+0340 Iowa founded. 100g from hut.
+0360 Sanitation -> Astronomy. Domestic deliveries for 132, 144. Virginia founded.
+0380 Domestic delivery for 50. Alaska founded by Alaskan nomad.
+0400 King Richard's built in the science city. Quite unusual for me; but the city is already size 12 and has only 1 extra food and no good place to put more workers so Shakespeare is a waste of resources. Leo would also be a waste as there is nothing to upgrade.
+0420 Indians build Oracle. Astronomy -> Democracy. T0L2S8
+0440 3 Libraries built. Louisiana founded. Domestic delivery for 93. T1L2S7.
+0460 Democracy -> Navigation. Demands for tribute led to 3 declarations of war from Russians, Japanese, and Greeks; others ignored me. Democracy established. 6 barbarian horsemen from northern Canadian hut. T4L2S4
+0480 Barbarians kill my archer.

Status at +0500
Population: 4.2M; Cities: 31; Techs: 30; Government: Democracy
Gold: 35; Cost: 21; Trade routes: 18D0F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo, King Richard
Units: 15 Settlers (3 None), 1 warriors, 1 Archer, 4 Legion (2 none), 1 Chariot, 3 Trireme, 3 diplomats, 12 vans
Goals: Copernicus (next turn), Magellan, Leo; foreign trade
Footprint: 18 cities in S. America, 2 in C. America, 6 in N. America, 1 in Galapagos, 4 in Caribbean.
Russians: 3 cities, 23 techs ; war with Indians and me, allied with Greeks
Japanese: 4 cities, 16 techs ; war with Chinese, Indian, and me
Egyptian: 7 cities, 26 techs ; Pyramids;
Chinese: 6 cities, 29 techs ; Great Library; war with Japanese
Greek: 7 cities, 25 techs ; Lighthouse; war with me, allied with Russians
Indian: 7 cities, 26 techs ; Great wall, Oracle; War with Russians and Japanese

 

[Inkerman]

In which our Incan civ becomes a democracy in the same turn as Ali's does.

Yes, despite the lead from my early good fortune with huts I seem to have gone a more roundabout route to democracy with its important corruption reduction. Getting benefit from that tech as early as possible may well be a trick I missed.

Another thought on the same lines comes from seeing Ali buildng KRC (King Richard's Crusade). No alternative offered worthwhile benefit. My inclination in that situation is rather than make something of only moderate benefit, to make something that will be useful in the future, say Leonardo. Even if it is of no value immediately.

I have gradually got better at putting money to use as soon as possible, but I see I can look more at getting techs and wonders that offer immediate benefit, before those who benefits are none/deferred.

But I am still hopeful that in this game the early strategy choices (and hut luck) dominate.

20- Discover Medicine -> Banking.
40- Van Pucara-Vilcashuaman, Spice, for 366g.
Give Polytheism and Warrior Code to Indians(1).
Swap Astronomy to Egyptians(3) for Bridge Building.
60- Trireme and cargo sunk off Greenland.
80- Found Tallahassee, Nashville.
Give Bridge Building to Indians.
100- Quito builds Shakespeare's Theatre and reaches size 12.
Give Literacy to Indians.
Bldgs cost is now 18.
Van, Pumpu-Huanuco Pampa, Silver, for 114g.
Van, Vilcashuaman-Chucuito, Dye, for 104g.

120- Discover Banking -> Engineering.
Give Banking to Indians, Egyptians.
Van, Cuzco-Pumpu, Hides, for 72g.
Van, Quito-Tomebamba, Dye, for 136g.
Van, Tomebamba-Quito, Wine, for 170g.
140- Greek Sparta builds GL.
Hut (SFrance): Barbs.
Give Bridge Building to Greeks.
160- Van, Panama-ChanChan, Hides, for 64g.
180- Discover Engineering -> Sanitation.
200- Egyptians get Polytheism from Greeks, for Banking.

220- Egyptians ask for help vs Chinese.
Russians approaching Amsterdam.
240- Japanese(0) near undefended Nashville - give Construction and Republic.
260- Japanese plunder Nashville, taking 4g and Wheel.
Discover Sanitation -> Economics.
Van, Ayaviri-Thebes(Egyptian), Copper, for 368g.
Van, Cuzco-Quito, Gold, for 198g.
280- Sewers Quito.
Discover Economics -> ToG. Quito=13, lux inc to 30%.
Buy Nashville for 38g, capturing 37g.
Van, Limatambo-Quito, Copper, for 316g.
300- Quito = 14. Found Dorchester.
Van Raqchi-Quito, Silk, for 126g.
Van, Chan Chan-Quito, Copper, for 92g.

320- Egyptians acquire Monotheism, and Greeks get it from GL.
Minsk builds LH. Quito=15. Lux to 40%.
Found Ozcollo.
Van, Ica-Quito, Silk, for 174g.
340- Chinese nearly done GW.
Discover ToG -> Invention.
Stock Exchange Quito. Quito=16.
Hut(NAfrica): Barbs.
360- Chinese develop Construction. Beijing builds GW.
Quito builds Isaac Newton College. Quito=17.
Bribe Japanese ship for 128g.
380- Quito=18.
Van, Ancon-Edinburgh, Wine, for 170g.
400- Discover Invention -> Democracy. Quito=19.

420- Chinese capture Bangalore, and take Banking. Quito=20.
Van, Pumpu-Huanuco Pampa, Silk, for 93g.
Van, Ica-Quito, Coal, for 82g.
440- Greeks/Egyptians cancel peace.
Quito=21 (food max.) Lux reduce to 20% - 3 cities need jesters.
We ask Russians to withdraw by Hamburg, they declare war.
460- Discover Democracy -> Gunpowder. Become Democracy.
Bribe Japanese Edo on west N America coast.
480- Indians want us to fight Chinese.
Disorder in Inkawasi despite temple building. Lux is 20%, may have to go to 30%.
Senate makes peace with Japanese.
500- Japanese develop Engineering, Greeks get it from GL.

Stats:
Cities: 36. Pop: 193. 9 Central/ N S America & Caribbean, 15 S S America, 4 in Europe, 1 Alaska, 7 in N America other.
Techs: 35. Cost: 49. Government: Democracy.
10 settler, 17 war's, 2 phalanx, 2 archer, 4 legion, 2 horse, 1 chariot, 2 ele, 7 crusader, 8 trireme, 7 dips, 24 vans.
Wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE, Michaelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Newton.

Russians: (4) Enraged, War. 383g. 7 cities, 22 techs. Lighthouse.
Japanese: (0) Hostile, Ceasefire. 359g. 2 cities, 15 techs.
us - Incas 543g. 35 techs.
Egyptians: (2) Enthusiastic, Peace. 263g. 4 cities, 28 techs. Pyramids.
Chinese: (5) Enthusiastic, Peace. 195g. 13 cities, 25 techs. Great Wall.
Greeks: (3) Receptive, Peace. 449g. 4 cities, 26 techs. Great Library.
Indians: (1) Enthusiastic, Peace. 330g. 3 cities, 26 techs.

I am allowing the tech gap to widen between me and the Indians. Lengthening the time to discoveries a bit but there'll be less trouble.

Nevertheless... give Invention, Engineering, Sanitation to Indians.
Found Yaku.
Hut(WAfrica): nomads.
Have to put lux to 30% for ships.
Do lots of PRB whilst warriors are still available.

 

[Inkerman]

Following on from previous post and the recent establishment of democracy we push on with discoveries, build key wonders with vans, and look to spread.

520- Discover Gunpowder -> Chemistry.
Hut(WAfrica): 25g - then run into hidden barb trireme.
Bribe Japanese Satsuma for 70g (it is near Edo.)
540- Indians liberate Chinese Bangalore, taking Feudalism, which Greeks get from GL.
Quito completes Leonardo's Workshop.
Discover Chemistry -> Explosives.
Swap Gunpowder to Greeks for Feudalism.
Give Gunpowder to Indians.
Van, Raqchi-Quito, Copper, for 70g.
560- Egyptian/Indian war ends.
Disorder Tallahassee.
580- Russians develop Navigation.
Discover Explosives -> Metallurgy. Settlers become Engineers.
600- Discover Metallurgy -> Theology.

620- Russians get Invention from Egyptians, Egyptians get Navigation from Russians, Greeks from GL. Japanese kill a crusader in a sneak attack.
640- Trireme lost to barbs off Africa. Russian ele kills musketeers at Hamburg.
Discover Theology -> Conscription.
Swap Sanitation to Egyptians for Navigation. Triremes become Caravels. Give Navigation to Indians.
660- Van, Huanuco Pampa-Edinburgh, Hides, for 308g.
680- Chinese get Engineering from Indians, Greeks get Writing from Egyptians, Egyptians get Gunpowder from Greeks, Greek/Egypt peace.
Build market in Cuzco - 1st improvement in Capital.
Quito completes Magellan's Expedition.
Discover Conscription -> Physics.
Found Nantes.
700- Huanoco Pampa builds JSBach Cathedral.
Lux reduced to 20%.
Quito=22.
Found Cuxi in West Africa. Hut (in city radius): musketeers.
Direct transatlantic trade possible now (rather than via Canada, Greenland and Iceland.)
Van, Catequil-Amsterdam, Silk, for 231g.
Van, Cotopachi-Edinburgh, Silver, for 260g.