GOTM 155 Spoiler

[Inkerman]

The early part of this game has caused me to think it might be interesting to discuss when to pop and when not-to-pop huts.

You may have spent some time expanding on the map analysis provided in the game thread to locate several "local" huts - the landmass is of reasonable size and must have several. I didn't work out where they were, partly because I was starting a month late, and partly because of preference. But anyway whether you did or not you are going to find local huts.

The first hut is unmissable - next to the starting position and on a river (which the start isn't.) So I imagine we all pop that one. I got the most likely outcome, mercenaries. Fine. They can go explore whilst the capital city gets going.

But what of the next huts? I used to pop almost always, but as I have played more I choose not-to-pop quite often. The main reason early on, as I see it, is to protect the technology path. Later you may not want to risk barbs destroying well-placed units.

So in this game I popped the second hut and got an off-path (to monarchy) tech. Again, fine. Should I now hold off popping until monarchy, or does the chance of a good result, especially nomads, mean pop is the best choice? What did you do?

I am writing this because I did pop, and it did not go so well!

A mini-log:

4000- Hut: Horse - it goes down river.
3950- Madrid (18,12). Start CB.
3600- Discover CB -> Alphabet. Hut: BW.
3400- Hut: Masonry.
2800- Madrid makes size 1 settler.
2650- Discover Alphabet -> CoL.
2150- Discover CoL -> MM.

This chance Masonry discovery drives up discovery costs and spoils the tech path. Did I succumb to temptation I shouldn't have?

I also popped the next one(s) - I think that is consistent with the Masonry pop - and that didn't recover things. So I expect to be a fair way behind others when we come to comparative stats.

 

[Major Advantage]

... So I expect to be a fair way behind others when we come to comparative stats.

I would not be so sure about that. I gambled on every hut and that delayed Monarchy until very late. Furthermore, I started with Alphabet, so the next choice after an off-path-tech was another off-path-tech.

As for the no-wonder-aspect of the game, I assumed there would be no other option than to build a temple in every city for happiness control. We will have two content citizens in the beginningso we could start with a settler in every new city. However, after the riot factor is in, the second citizien will be unhappy, which means we will need a unit for crowd control or start with a temple, especially if we are republic.

And no wonders also means no Marco, so we will have make physical contact with every civ by scouting and exploring.

This is how my game started:

-4000 Archer from hut
-3950 Madrid founded @ 18,12, work river for double science
-3900 Research Alph
-3850 HBR from hut, bad
-3450 25g from hut
-3400 Alph->Writ.
-3200 Settler built
-3150 Sevilla founded
-2800 Writing->Burial
-2550 Mapmaking from hut
-2400 Toledo founded
-2250 Barb horse from hut
(Archer survives)
-2150 Burial->Bronze
-2050 Villareal founded
-1750 Valencia founded
-1650 Barbs land north of Toledo(west coast), can't rush defender/dip
-1600 Bronze->Laws; 1st trireme built, warrior shipped over to cont. 2
-1550 Salamanca founded, rush phalanx in Toledo, awaiting barb attack
(Phalanx survives and turns vet)
-1450 Advanced Tribe (Barcelona) on cont. 2
-1350 Switch to horse in Sevilla so we can hunt down the barb leader
-1300 Leader taken for 150
-1200 Laws->Monarchy; 50g from hut

Stats at -1000:
pop.: 120k; Cities: 7; techs: 7; gold: 217; Gov.: Desp; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 4 settler, 6 army, 1 boat, 1 dip

 

[Inkerman]

I would not be so sure about that. ...

Stats at -1000:
pop.: 120k; Cities: 7; techs: 7; gold: 217; Gov.: Desp; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 4 settler, 6 army, 1 boat, 1 dip

very good!

1050- Discover Monarchy -> HBR. Revolution. Become Monarchy.

Stats at -1050:
pop.: 90k; Cities: 7; techs: 7; gold: 88; Gov.: Monarchy; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 4 settler, 6 army, 1 boat.

 

[Inkerman]

In English colloquial usage "No wonder" means not surprising. For example "It is no wonder only a few people play Civ2 GotM because it all takes so long."

I'm enjoying the "no wonder" game, but it would be no wonder to me if others don't. The kick of improving your position quickly via a wonder is one of the many attractive features of Civ2, and waiting for others to build wonders which you can then capture doesn't have the same appeal.

Regarding the point the Major makes about building temples in every city because one would normally build the Hanging Gardens, I think that is not so bad. And you can have quite a lot of cities without temples if you have a lot of warriors (look out for the 1AD stats on warriors.) I wonder if the inability to build the Lighthouse is not a bigger handicap, since the solution to that is to discover Navigation and then build some caravels, which is not so easy as building temples.

One approach here might be to prioritise certain tech advances and later switch to conquest. And that could be served by limiting hut pops - unless you go to the other extreme of aiming for seafaring as a way to popping every hut available? It will be interesting if there are other approaches to the problem set by this game.

 

[haleewud]

I reviewed the information available once I determined the resource seed. When I got a Chariot from the first hut, I saw I could get to a second hut before founding Madrid.

I don't think I ever waited on a hut (I hardly ever do). I also had very good luck with 3 gold (175 total), 2 units, 2 nomads and 1 Advance Tribe in the first 8 huts.

-4000 Hut -> Chariot
-3950 Hut - Archer, Madrid founded on River (17,13)
-3900 Start Alphabet
-3800 Hut -> 50, RB 4sh
-3700 Alphabet -> Code of Laws
-3250 Size 1 settler
-3200 Madrid size 2
-3150 Code of Laws -> Map Making
-3050 Hut -> Advanced Tribe (Seville, 13,23)
-3000 Toledo founded (12, 14)


stats at -3000:
pop.: .05; cities: 3; techs: 2, gov: Depostism, gold: 70; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Archer, 1 Chariot
wonders: None
Footprint: 3 Cities in Spain

Russians: No Contact
Zulus: No Contact
Blue: No Contact
Orange: No Contact
Americans: No Contact
Mongols: No Contact


-2700 Map Making -> Ceremonial Burial
-2500 Hut -> 25
-2450 Barbs land near Madrid, Archer kills Barb Archer
-2400 Archer survives Barb Attack
-2350 Toledo build Trireme
-2300 Cordoba founded (24,12)
-2250 Ceremonial Burial -> Monarchy
-2100 Seville settler
-2000 Valencia founded (16,34,2)

stats at -2000:
pop.: .09M; cities: 5; techs: 4, gov: Despotism, gold: 152; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Warrior, 1 Archer, 1 Chariot, 1 Trireme
wonders: None
Footprint: 4 Cities in Spain. 1 city on Continent 2 (Mongol/Zulus, etc)

Russians: No Contact
Zulus: No Contact
Germans: No Contact
Orange: No Contact
Americans: No Contact
Mongols: No Contact


-1850 Toledo and Madrid settler, Monarchy -> Writing, Monarachy established
-1800 Meet Mongols, Give Map Making, Peace, Give Monarchy, CoL and Alpha
-1700 Hut -> Nomads
-1600 Salamanca founded (25,2,2)
-1550 Writing -> Mysticism, Barcelona founded (30,16,5)
-1500 Seville settler, Hut -> Nomads
-1350 Toledo and Madrid settler
-1300 Mysticism -> Literacy, Valladolid founded (20,16,3), Meet Germans, Peace, trade Monarchy -> HBR and Map Making -> BW
-1250 Cordoba settler
-1200 Valencia settler, Saragossa founded (25,39,2)
-1150 Hut -> 100
-1100 Cadiz founded (23,23,3)
-1000 Bilbao founded (20,30,2)


stats at -1000:
pop.: .25M; cities: 11; techs: 9, gov: Monarchy, gold: 347; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 3 Settlers, 7 Warriors, 1 Archers, 1 Chariot, 2 Trireme
wonders: None
Footprint: 6 Cities in Spain. 4 cities on Continent 2 (Mongol/Zulus, etc), 1 on Island 5

Russians: No Contact
Zulus: No Contact
Germans: No Embassy
Orange: No Contact
Americans: No Contact
Mongols: No Embassy

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I'm enjoying the "no wonder" game, but it would be no wonder to me if others don't. The kick of improving your position quickly via a wonder is one of the many attractive features of Civ2, and waiting for others to build wonders which you can then capture doesn't have the same appeal.

Exactly. Wonders are a big part of the game. But for seasoned players, these kinds of twists introduce new challenges and make us think a lot more.

My thinking is that the biggest challenge in this game, by a long shot, is (lack of ability to build) Marco. Depending on the geography Lighthouse may be an issue, but on most game generated maps it is not.

Because of the wonder restriction this has to be a conquest game. (Theoretically you could wait for someone else to build Apollo but they may not.) Because of that all other wonders are not that important compared to Marco.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I started playing the game last week and my initial goals were the usual: Monarchy and expansion. I prioritized writing (for diplomats) and mapmaking (for offshore exploration) and put off Trade. I made my first diplomat way sooner than I usually do. Of course, it ended up not have anything to do because it turned out we are alone on our home continent.

After Monarchy, writing, and mapmaking my research had no strategic goals. I was nominally going after Republic and Philosophy but I was really aimless. When I did get Republic I had no size 3 city and my bonus for philosophy was Bronze Working! Something I am sure I could trade for once I meet a rival or two. At that point I switched max spending (70%) from science to taxes.

My initial hut luck was excellent. Like others I got a unit out of the first hut and like haleewud mine was fast allowing the second hut to give me another none unit. After that the hut luck was not good. I got more (unneeded) units and barbarians.

Date Notes

-4000 Horseman from hut. This is great. Zulu are in.
-3950 Archer from hut. Wonderful. Madrid founded. Americans are in.
-3900 -> Alphabet. Resource seed is 52. Russian and German are in.
-3800 Horseman from hut. Will be disbanded to quicken size 1 settler.
-3700 Alphabet -> Code of Laws.
-3400 Supported horseman disbanded.
-3200 Code of Laws -> Writing. Seville founded.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.04M; Cities: 2; Techs: 2; Government: Despotism
Gold: 10; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 None Archer, 1 None Horseman
Goals: Monarchy/Republic, Exploring the world to find other rivals.
Russian: no contact
Zulu: no contact
German: no contact
American: no contact
orange?: no contact
Mongol: no contact

-2950 Single barbarian horseman from hut at 13, 23 killed by my horseman.
-2800 Writing -> Ceremonial Burial. Toledo founded.
-2550 Archer from hut.
-2350 Burial -> Monarchy. Cordoba founded.
-2100 Valencia founded. Home island fully explored.
-2050 T6L0S4

Status at -2000
Population: 0.05M; Cities: 5; Techs: 4; Government: Despotism
Gold: 28; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 2 settlers, 2 Archers (1 None), 1 None Horseman
Goals: Monarchy, Mapmaking, Exploring the world to find other rivals.
Russian: no contact
Zulu: no contact
German: no contact
American: no contact
orange?: no contact
Mongol: no contact

-1850 Monarchy -> Mapmaking. Monarchy established. T3L0S7
-1800 Salamanca founded.
-1550 Mapmaking -> Mysticism.
-1450 Barcelona founded.
-1400 First Trireme produced.
-1300 Mysticism -> Literacy.
-1200 Valladolid founded.
-1000 Literacy -> Republic.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.16M; Cities: 8; Techs: 8; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 9; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 6 settlers, 2 Archers (1 None), 1 None Horseman, 1 trireme, 1 diplomat
Goals: Exploring the world to find other rivals, settling islands 2 and 5
Russian: no contact
Zulu: no contact
German: no contact
American: no contact
orange?: no contact
Mongol: no contact

 

[Ali Ardavan]

		Major Inkerman	haleewud	Ali Ardavan
Population	120K	90K	250K		160K
Cities		7	7	11		8
Techs		7	7	9		8
gold		217	88	347		9
Settlers	4	4	3		6
boats		1	1	2		1
dips		1	0	0		1
army		6	6	9		3

Obviously haleewud is ahead of the rest of us, thanks to the Advanced tribe which gave him his second city.

 

[Inkerman]

Similar play from everyone to 1000BC it seems. I continue with more cities.

975-
950-
925-
Ams start Pyramids.
900- Valladolid (26,14).
875- Discover HBR -> Polytheism.
850-
Mongol ship (no passengers) nearby.
825-
800- Saragossa (20,22).
775- Cadiz (7,31).
Germans start Pyramids.

750-
725- Bilbao (16,10).
700-
675- Discover Polytheism -> Mysticism. Granada (12,24), Malaga (21,15).
Germans abandon Pyramids.
650-
625- Pamplona (25, 29) #2.
Mongols start Sun Tzu. Somewhat disappointing to hear that.
600- Vigo (17,15).
German(4) chariot comes (on continent #2). We give Monarchy get peace. Enthuse. No map swap.
575- We are Supreme.
550- Avila (20,30) #2.
525- Civil disorder x2
Germans start Pyramids.

Stats
pop.: 370k; Cities: 16; techs: 10; gold: 145; Gov.: Monarchy; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F; bldgs:0.
units: 3 settler, 9 warrior, 5 phalanx, 1 horse, 4 ele, 5 boats.

We have met the Germans. 2 cities are off the home island.

 

[haleewud]

In this segment of the game, I began to build my army (barracks first) and continued to press East. I ran into a little glitch when the Zulus took out a size 1 city (my elephants were a couple turns away from supporting the city). I left the Mongols alone (key civ).

I finally got a tech from a hut (Warrior Code, right when I started research it) and also got a horde of barbarians.

-975 Salamance settler, Literacy -> Philosophy
-950 Meet Zulus, they demand 50, no WAR
-925 Barcelona Diplomat, Seville and Madrid settlers
-900 kill Zulu Warrior
-825 Toledo Settler, Philosophy -> Polytheism -> Warrior Code, Hut -> Warrior Code
-800 start Monotheism, Granada founded (29,27,2), Hut -> 6 barb Horse and 1 barb Legion
-775 Chariot dies to Barbs, Cordoba Barracks
-725 Madrid Barracks
-700 Bilbao, Salamanca and Seville Barracks, Kill Barb Archer(+Leader), Toledo settler rejoins city
-675 Barcelona Diplomat, Toledo Barracks, Malaga founded (20,2,3), Zulu Horse next to size 1 Granada (warrior), no way to improve defense
-650 Granada destroyed by Zulus, Hut -> 25
-625 Monotheism -> Currency
-525 Zulus offer 300 for CF, I agree


stats at -500:
pop.: .55M; cities: 12, techs: 14, gov: Monarchy, gold: 473; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn: 6
units: 4 Settler, 11 Warriors, 1 Phalanx, 1 Archers, 1 Horsemen, 6 Elephant, 3 Crusaders, 4 Trireme, 2 Diplomat
wonders: None
Footprint: 7 Cities in Spain. 4 cities on Continent 2 (Mongol/Zulus, etc), 1 on Island 5

Russians: No Contact
Zulus: No Embassy, CF
Germans: No Embassy, Peace
Orange: No Contact
Americans: No Contact
Mongols: No Embassy, Peace

 

[Inkerman]

500- Discover Mysticism -> Writing.
475- Contact Germans: ask tech swap they offer WC. Decline. But they swap maps now.
They have 3 cities. They tell us where Karakorum and Nishapur(Mongol#4) are.
450- Germans ignore threats.
425- Discover Writing -> Literacy.
400- Hut:Horse.
375- Leon (13,29). Germans(3) give 75g.
350- Hut:Barbs.
Ele lost to barbs.
325-
300-
Zulus destroyed by Russians.
275- Discover Literacy -> Philosophy. Fort Burgos (23,39) #2.
Find Kyoto (city size 3) - respawn for Green.

250-
225-
Mongols(5) catapult met - peace declined - be firm with these people - give them CoL. The only other tech they want is Poly.
200- Oviedo (8,36).
We must prepare an attack on the Mongols, who seem to be nearby. We learnt in -625 they were starting Sun Tzu. They are not the most distant but they are the most advanced.
175- Discover Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Currency.
Take 100g from Mongols for peace. Santander (63,13) #2.
150- Attack Mongols - taking Nishapur and Wheel. They have 2 other techs that are not Feudalism, which we would prefer not to have just now.
125- Capture Bokhara - taking Maths. Mongols abandon Sun Tzu.
Mongols start Sun Tzu.
100- Meet Japanese, they tribute Pottery.
75-
Ams abandon Pyramids. Trireme lost to Mongols.
50-
25- Capture Karakorum, and WC. Ciudad Rodrigo (26,6) #1.

1AD. Stats.
pop.: 1.02m; Cities: 24; techs: 18; gold: 42; Gov.: Monarchy; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
bldg cost: 5 x barracks.
units: 3 settler, 30 warrior, 10 phalanx, 2 horse, 10 ele's, 6 crusader, 8 boats.

Russians: () No contact
Japanese: (1) Unco-op, Ceasefire
Germans: (3) Cordial, Peace
Spanish: (6) Us - Supreme, 24 cities, 18 techs.
Americans: () No contact
Mongols: (5) Unco-op, War

Germans nearly done Pyramids.

We have to decide how far to take this Mongol war. They are still strong and have pikemen, and Samarkand at size 6 is near our troops, but I would rather not have Feudalism (because it removes the 10 point IRB.) At least not until I have got more units built and out and about around the world. Meanwhile the riot factor is causing a great need for temples to supplant warrior garrisons and elvises. It is good that capturing wonders forms no part of the strategy - only Pyramids have been built elsewhere.

I expect we know who all the other civs are, and that the Russians (who eliminated the Zulus) will be distant and strong and the main worry after the Mongols.

I would like to be able to sail directly west to the area where the Gemans are, but that is across too wide an ocean. I will have to get triremes moving east along the top of the main continent. I do not think I am going to be having many more discoveries (if any) in the plan, so crusaders, vet elephants and settlers may as well start as soon as possible - I think I do not need to wait for vet crusaders, and the temple building. That journey is going to take some time.

 

[Major Advantage]

My thinking is that the biggest challenge in this game, by a long shot, is (lack of ability to build) Marco. Depending on the geography Lighthouse may be an issue, but on most game generated maps it is not.

Not having Marco is bad, but not having any happiness-wonders is a lot worse. At leat when new cities start with a red citizen. Luxuries can't help, so a temple or a unit for martial law is required, but the city will be rioting if the first citizen is not turned into an elvis...


Being behind in techs, I chose to insert a period of republic and trading into my game.

Until 1 AD:
-975 Valladolid(2), Saragossa(3) founded
-950 Settler meets Mongol Archer, they want 100g, refuse, war
(Settler survives Mongol attack)
-925 Cadiz founded
-900 Monarchy (1 turn too late)->Literacy; WC + IW from hut
-850 Revolution
-825 Become Monarchy; Bilbao, Granada founded
-800 Meet Zulu catapult, they demand 100g, deny, war, embassy with Mongols, spend gold below 50, hail Mongols, peace, maps
-775 Sign peace with Zulu, no maps though
-750 Get Myst. & Currency from Mongols, Construction from Zulu (other choices were Math and Masonry)
-725 Trade from hut
-700 Barb horse from hut; A settler mysteriously disappears (??), replay the turn, took about 20 tries to get that barb horse again
(horse moves away)
-675 Meet German horse, peace, maps
-625 Malaga, Pamplona founded, hail germans hoping for literacy, get pottery
-600 Vigo founded; nomads from hut; get maps from zulu
-575 Lit.->Philo; Embassy with Zulu
-500 two vans produced, are on their way to Mongols

Stats at -500:
pop.: 390k; Cities: 15; techs: 16; gold: 17; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 4 settler, 13 army, 3 boat, 1 dip, 2 vans
Goals: Keep expanding and start trade, we will need a plan for conquest someday, hold eyes open for wonders to catch

-400 1st delivery for 204g; Avila (60,16) founded from Nomads
(Germans begin pyramids)
-375 Philo->Republic->Seafaring
-350 Revolution
-325 Republic established; delivery 112
-300 van 224; most of it spent right away
-275 Seafaring->Bridge; Leon founded
-225 van for 312; Burgos founded
-200 two exploring warriors disbanded in the wild
-150 BB->Polyth.; 224; update german maps
-100 Oviedo founded; get math & wheel from Zulu
(Mongols get Feud. and start Sun Tzu)
-75 Santander founded
-25 Poly->Astro; deliveries 224, 116
+1 AD Germans about to finish Pyramids

Stats at +1:
pop.: 710k; Cities: 20; techs: 23; gold: 46; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/7F
units: 9 settler, 14 army, 5 boat, 1 dip, 5 vans
Goals: Mono & Magnetism, make conquest plans involving fregates

 

[haleewud]

I continue to develop the army and push east. Still ignoring the Mongols. I begin to reduce Science funding.

-475 Pamplona founded (39,41,2 near Zulus)
-425 Bilbao and Toledo Diplomats, Salamanca settler
-400 Break Zulu CF, Kill Archer in Ulundi (2 vet Crusaders die), Capture Ulundi (15+Currency+Barracks), Bribe Zulu Archer for 177, Give Zulus Philo, sign CF, Vigo founded (7,31,3)
-375 Start Wheel, Bribe Zulu Phalanx 92
-325 Washington builds Pyramids,
-275 Demand tribute from Zulus, WAR, Kill Phalanx and Warrior in Zimbabwe, Capture Zimbabwe (23+Wheel+Barracks), Bribe Isandhlwana 57 (9+Construction+Archer+Warrior)
-250 start Masonry, Salamanca Diplomat, 250 tribute from Germans, Avila founded (8,36,3), T/L/S = 3/4/3 (need to build treasury for bribes)
-225 Bribe Hlobane 57 (17+Pottery+Phal)
-200 Ulundi Diplomat, Toledo Settler, Trade with Germans Philo -> Masonry
-175 start Seafaring
-150 Leon founded(13,29,3), Meet Americans, Peace give then Literacy, Monarchy, Wheel, Polytheism and Map Making, exchange maps, get 350 in tribute
-125 Valladolid Temple, establish Indian Embassy
-100 Salamanca Diplomat, Bribe Bapedi 112 (45+IW+Phal), Zulus destroyed, Hut -> Bridge Building
-75 Meet Russians, Peace, Give Wheel+Philo, exchange maps, get 200 tribute
-25 Ulundi Diplomat, Hut -> Nomads
+1 American/Mongol WAR, Renounce treaty with Russians, WAR, 1 Crusader killed, Kill Phal+Archer in Kiev, capture Kiev (10), Burgos founded (59,35,6)

stats at +1:
pop.: 1.08M; cities: 23, techs: 21, gov: Monarchy, gold: 564; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn: 9
units: 2 Settler, 27 Warriors, 5 Phalanx, 3 Archers, 1 Horsemen, 1 Chariot, 6 Elephant, 24 Crusaders, 8 Trireme, 4 Diplomat
wonders: None
Footprint: 10 Cities in Spain, 5 Spanish cities on Continent 2 (Mongol/Zulus, etc), 1 on Island 5, 1 on Island 6, 5 Zulus cities, 1 Russian cities

Russians: No Embassy, War
Zulus: Destroyed
Germans: No Embassy, Peace
Orange: No Contact
Americans: No Embassy, Peace, Pyramids
Mongols: 4 cities, 10 techs, 336 gold, Monarchy, Peace

 

[Inkerman]

Once again I read the posts of my fellow players and think I haven't managed this as well as I might. So my compliments on the play so far to haleewud and Major_Advantage. I think I may finish behind you.

As I suggested in my first post I would have done better to limit the early hut popping. I thought I probably should have, but everyone else popped huts like I did so perhaps I was doing the right thing after all. We know from the -1000 stats that haleewud fared best with huts.

I clash with a strong Mongols before 1AD, as I don't want to fight a large SunTzu equipped civ, and whilst the fighting goes well I have yet to get any units over the other side of the world, and have not met the Russians or Americans.

It looks from the 1AD position that haleewud's game makes good progress to that point, building well on the -1000 position. The Zulus are out and a Russian city is captured. It is perhaps 20-25 turns ahead of my game? The conquests use triremes and crusaders as I hope mine will. It looks like it is the beginning of the end.

Meanwhile the Major deploys trade (which will play no part in my game I think), republic and looks to other technologies. I will look with interest at how that proceeds.

I have played on. I am now positioned for widespread fighting, but am still a bit short of strength in a few distant places. I will rush what I can, but money is very tight, as tribute is limited and running temples in a corrupt empire takes so much of the tax even with it set to maximum!

I think I might have done better to build fewer cities in Spain - so I could build more distant cities before the riots became such a problem. And/or to have looked to our trusty standby, Trade.

 

[Major Advantage]

Thanks for the flowers!

I do not think my game went as well as you make it sound. Employing republic and trading was something I did because I did not see much else to do, since I was very far from being able to attack anyone. I guess it turned out to be a good decision.

And I totally agree on your comments about Haleewud's game. He wiped out the Zulus long before I even had idea about how to get any troops there.

I also have built too many cities in our homeland, they don't add much to our empire but hurt it by increasing unhappiness. Should have thought about that before...

 

[Inkerman]

I am not sure which wonder I would have chosen if I was allowed only one: Marco Polo, HG/Michelangelo, Lighthouse. Probably the happiness one, but anyway back to the story.

When in 1AD we left Inkerman's campaign of conquest, war was raging with the Mongols. The Mongol capital had fallen. The Mongols had lots of strength and had pikemen, and Samarkand at size 6 is near the Spanish troops, but a further capture would bring Feudalism - perhaps undesirable because it removes the 10 pt IRB.

20- 125g from Germans.
Leipzig builds Pyramids.
Mongols are strong and Samarkand is big - I think I have to attack.
40- Capture Samarkand and Iron Working. Peace. Give Mongols Pottery.
Lucky to find they must just have discovered Iron Working so I don't have to take Feudalism.
60- Hut(nr Santander): Seafaring.
80- Give Iron to Japanese(1), Philosophy to Germans(3). Mongols are (4).
100- Give Philosophy and Seafaring to Mongols.

We are manoeuvring and exploring - have some Zulu city names known to exploring units now.
120-
Germans boast of Republic.
140- Find Ulundi - which is Mongol.
160-
180- Found Calatrava (39,41). Mongols(4) withdraw. We have a “near Washington” status.
200- Found Cartagena (68,24). 150g from Germans. 25g from Japanese.

220-
Russians start Colossus.
240- Ship with dip nr Zimbabwe bribes a wandering barb legion for 82g.
Hut(nr Ulundi): 100g.
Meet Ams(2) - they give 200g for peace.
260- Found Kapool (22,56). Oh dear we get a black figure now. Found Kat (30, 64).
Swap seafaring to Germans(3) for Republic - they have nothing else. Mapswap.
Give Literacy and Republic to Ams(2) and mapswap. See New York and Philadelphia - which are Russian.
280- Hut(41,63): AT-Cunaxa
300- Hut:50g.

320- At last find Mpondo, which turns out to be Russian(5) now. We get 450g for peace.
We give Philosophy, Republic and Mathematics to get mapswap.
340-
360- Establish embassy with Mongols - not before time. Only new tech is Feudalism.
Hut:50g.
Refuse to withdraw from nr Mpondo (we were trapped) - Russians declare war.
380- 50g from Japanese. Germans decline.
400- Give Iron to Germans. Give Philosophy to Ams, they give Construction back.
We have 18 ships.

Getting to stage where any new unit construction in home island will be too late. If I had trade they'd do vans, as it is they may make barracks that will be sold once built.

420- Germans say no to tribute.
440- Hut (island): nomads. Found Crete (59, 39) #6, Capua (67,31).
460- Establish embassy with Germans. Swap seafaring to Ams to get Currency. Sell 3 x home island barracks.
480- Start on Feudalism as no advances to Trade. Mongols decline tech swap. They declare war when we ask tribute. Capture Mongol Tabriz taking Feudalism. Sign ceasefire for 100g. Capture Russian Mpondo. Hut (nr Kyoto): legion. Bribe Mongol Zimbabwe for 216g. Get 25g from Ams. Get 50g from Germans.
500- Start on Trade. Found Zurich (44,32). Bribe barb legion for 82g. Sell 1 x barracks.

Stats.
pop.: 1.64m; Cities: 37; techs: 24; gold: 64; Gov.: Monarchy; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
bldg cost: 26 x temple, 4 x barracks.
units: 8 settler, 39 warrior, 13 phalanx, 1 archer, 3 legion, 1 pikeman, 2 horse, 8 ele, 17 crusader, 19 trireme, 10 dip, 6 explorer.

Russians: () Unco-op, war, ~5 cities.
Japanese: () Unco-op, peace, ~ 2 cities.
Germans: () Receptive, peace, 60g, 3 cities, 17 techs
Spanish: (6) Us - Supreme
Americans: () Receptive, peace, ~2 cities.
Mongols: () Unco-op, war, 32g, 3 cities, 19 techs

 

[Major Advantage]

It's hard to find the time to play, since every day it's football from 6 PM until 2 AM...

In this next chapter we end our republic/trade/science period and start going to war. We were very lucky that the Mongols were too naive and left their Sun-Tzu-equipped capital badly defended.

20 Germans build pyramdis; Ciudad Rodrigo founded
40 Poly->Navigation; 280, 124
60 delivery 240
80 Nav.->Mono (other idea was physics->Mag, but I'm pretty sure Mag would be blocked next); del. 164; bribe barb leader for 61g (couldn't hunt him down
120 Bribe Barb Legion for 82g; Caravel sails west
160 Calatrava founded
180 Reach cont. 4, Cartagena founded (channelling lakes 5 & 20); 130
200 Mono->Physics; dye(d) for disappointing 68g, domestic beads for 40, 25g from hut(cont.4)
(Barbs land near Valladolid)
220 Valladolid builds settler; Neapel founded, rush crusader in Valla; 100g from hut
240 delivery for 190, Issus founded SE shore of lake 20
260 Cunaxa founded channelling eastern end of lake 5, starting with red-head, Cremona founded
(Barbs capture Nishapur)
280 Phys->Magn.; 175, 100, 66, 44; Kiel founded north of Germany, Legion from hut
(Zulu switch from HG to GL)
300 Can't avoid Lux any longer; delivery 50; 150 for barb leader in germany; Capua founded just west of Germany
320 Bribe barb Legion 82g; Turin founded
340 Bribe Barbarian Nishapur for 208; 25g + Nomads from huts
(Karakorum builds Sun Tzu, we have our first target)
360 Magn.->Engineering; Set science to 0; Genua, Kreta founded; deliveries for 38, 58; Revolution
380 Back to Monarchy
400 Verona, Salamis founded
420 Get 100g tribute from Mongols
460 15g delivery, time for war, demand mongol tribute, get 125g attack anyway, there was only 1 warrior in Karakorum! Easily taken, get 101g + Sun Tzu
500 Bribe Mongol Archer for 87g

Stats at +520:
pop.: 1.94M; Cities: 36; techs: 29; gold: 91; Gov.: Mon; Wonders: Sun Tzu; TR: 19D(all are worthless)/9F
units: 6 settler, 32 d-army, 9 o-army, 8 boat, 1 fregate, 7 dip, 4 vans
Goals: Conquer Mongols, Zulu, Germans; meet russians and Americans

 

[haleewud]

I am sure which wonder I would have chosen if I was allowed only one: Marco Polo. Tracking down the respawns is a pain.

I did have a lot of problems with unhappiness during this segment. I had to leave several cities in disorder for multiple turns while waiting for the population to grow. A number of temples were built.

I also had a little problem with Barbs in the middle of the segment.

It was interesting to see how active Inkerman's Russians were. They killed the Zulus and took over at least a couple of American cities. As far as I can tell, the AIs in my game were much more peaceful.


+20 Mongols develop Feudalism, Native uprising near Salamanca, Barcelona Temple, Kill Barb Chariot, Crusader(1/3 movement) dies to Chariot on Mountain
+40 Pamplona Temple, Malaga, Salamanca and Seville Diplomats, Kill Barb Chariot(and Leader)
+60 Renounce German peace treaty, German horse kills Crusader, Seafaring -> Math, Madrid Temple, Kill Warrior and Phalanx in Berlin, Capture Berlin (31), Kill German Warrior and Russian Horse
+80
+100
+120 Bribe German Phalanx (44), Kill 2 Archers in Leipzig, capture Leipzig (11), Bribe Konigsberg 165 (14+Barracks+phalanx+Settler)
+140 Ulundi Temple, Bribe Smolensk 82 (6+Warrior), T/L/S = 6/4/0 (finally gave science up)
+160 Smolensk, Malaga and Salamanca Diplomats, Bribe Frankfurt 54 (18+Phalanx+Settler), Germans destroyed, kill Warrior in Minsk, Capture Minsk (13+Barracks) agree to CF with Russians
+180 Cadiz Settler, Toledo Temple, Oviedo founded
+200 Bilbao Temple, Seville Diplomat
+220 Barbs near Seville, Diplomat moved to far to be useful, RB Crusaders in some nearby cities
+240 2 Barb Legions kill the 2 warriors in Seville, 3rd Barb Legion captures Seville (3 gold), I kill the 2 legions outside the city, Hut -> 6 Barb Horse
+260
+280 Mongols develop HBR, Salamanca and Toledo Diplomats, Hut -> 50
+300 Hut -> 25, Bribe Seville 52 (Legion+Barracks), Bribe Rusian Phalanx 118
+320 Saragossa Temple, 12 Tribute from Russians (was hoping for WAR), declare war on Russians, Kill Russian Legion(+1) and Chariot, Demand tribute from Mongols, WAR, kill archer in Samarkand, Capture Samarkand (65+Feudalism+Barracks), Kill Pikeman and 2 Archers in Bokhara, Bribe size 1 Bokhara 63 (10+Barracks), Bribe Mongol Phalanx 143, agree to Mongol CF
+340 Disorder in Oviedo, Bokhara and Seville, Berlin Settlers, Kill Russian Legion
+360 Disorder in Oviedo, Minsk, Seville and Berlin, Kill Russian Warrior, Kill Archer and Phalanx in Moscow, destroy Moscow (10), kill Russian Archer
+380 Barbs near Frankfurt, Disorder in Oviedo, Minsk, Hlobane and Seville, Cadiz Temple, Bribe Russian Legion 67
+400 Mongols get IW from Americans and sign Peace, Disorder in Oviedo and Hlobane, Malaga and Kiev Temples, Bilbao Settlers, kill 2 Archers in St Peterburg, Capture St. Petersurg (28+Barracks), Russians destroyed, Demand tribute from Mongols, WAR, kill Pikeman+2Archers in Karakorum, Capture Karakorum (44+Barracks), Bribe Mongol Pikeman 52
+420 All order restored, Valencia, Cordoba and Zimbabwe Temples, kill Pikeman in Nishapur, Capture Nishapur (76+Barracks), Meet Babylonians (island north of Germans), Give Seafaring+MM+Poly+Feud, Peace and exchange Maps
+440 Babylonians develop University, Hlobane and Salamanca Temples
+460 Burgos Temple, Smolensk and Madrid Diplomats, disorder in Smolensk, kill Mongol Archer, Bribe Kashgar 116 (46+Pikeman)
+480 Disorder in Kashgar, Find Trondheim (northern Continent 2), demand Tribute, WAR, Bribe American warrior 34, Bribe Babylonian Archer 202, kill pikeman in Tabriz, Capture Tabriz (34), Mongols destroyed
+500 Disorder in Tabriz, Leon Temple, Pamplona Settler, Kill phalanx in Babylon, capture Babylon (46+Math), Babylonians destroyed, Vikings offer 24 for CF, no, kill warrior in Trondheim, Trondheim destroyed (8), Vikings destroyed, Check one of my Diplimats near remains of Trondheim, he is closest to Little Big Horn, Find LBH, WAR

stats at +500:
pop.: 2.38M; cities: 38, techs: 24, gov: Monarchy, gold: 137; trade routes: 0D6F; cost/turn: 34
units: 7 Settler, 44 Warriors, 10 Phalanx, 5 Archers, 1 Legion, 7 Pikemen, 1 Horsemen, 1 Chariot, 4 Elephant, 42 Crusaders, 11 Trireme, 7 Diplomat
wonders: None
Footprint: 10 Cities in Spain. 6 Spanish cities on Continent 2 (Mongol/Zulus, etc), 1 on Island 5, 1 on Island 6, 5 Zulus cities, 4 Russian cities, 4 German cities, 6 Mongol Cities, 1 Babylonian city

Russians: Destroyed
Zulus: Destroyed
Babylonians: Destroyed
Germans: Destroyed
Vikings: Destroyed
Orange: No Contact
Americans: No Embassy, Peace, Pyramids
Mongols: Destroyed
Sioux, No Embassy, WAR

 

[Inkerman]

I am sure which wonder I would have chosen if I was allowed only one: Marco Polo. Tracking down the respawns is a pain.

It's hard to find the time to play, since every day it's football from 6 PM until 2 AM...

Ah, yes, re-spawns, there are quite a lot aren't there: I wonder if there are more countries in this game than at the Football World Cup Finals (before departures at the group stage, such as England's.)

At 500 the games are similar in the number of cities we have. But they are quite different in how the AI has developed, and haleewud with better early progress has made a lot of captures. In fact he has already captured more cities in his game than there are targets left in my game.

I think haleewud may have been better equipped if some of his crusaders had been triremes? Usually when it comes to re-spawns it is having the right units spread to the right places that matters more than total strength, but am I the right person to advise - as my next post will show although I was happy with my balance of forces I did not make a good job of controlling re-spawns.

		Inkerman Major_Advantage haleewud
Cities             37       36           38 
Crusaders          17        9           42
ships              19        9           11
dips               10        7            7
Captures from AI    7        2           21
Number AI left      5        5            3?

 

[haleewud]

I think haleewud may have been better equipped if some of his crusaders had been triremes? Usually when it comes to re-spawns it is having the right units spread to the right places that matters more than total strength, but am I the right person to advise - as my next post will show although I was happy with my balance of forces I did not make a good job of controlling re-spawns.

I had a couple of triremes being used as ferries from the Spanish mainland to Continent 2, but most of the rest were out to the far east moving troops in search of the respawns.

After 500AD, I had to kill off the Sioux and Americans (in the game at that point) and then deal with Indians, Romans, French, Japanese, Persians, Chinese and Celts.

The one big problem I had was an encounter with the Romans when all I had was a Chariot. The Chariot died to a pikeman and it took me 5 turns to move new troops into place.