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GOTM 16 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by noughmaster, May 9, 2002.

  1. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    Use the 50 shield city for freight and put the 20 shield city on a wonder. Since you can switch between a wonder and a spcaeship part with no penalty, you add the freight to the wonder until you have 300 shields in it and then switch it over to the Module for the last turn of production to finish it off.

    Four freight and 6 turns later you have a module with no wasted shields and two extra freight.

    If you use the 50 shield city for the module, in 6 turns you'll have a module, wasted 30 shields one extra freight and 20 shields towards a new freight.

    That's if my memory is correct and the number of shields for a module is right @ 320.

    Unfortunately I never even got a chance to load GOTM 16. :( But I'm trying to get a jump start on 17. :)
     
  2. Chofritz

    Chofritz Former Mr. Reloader

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    Starlifter,

    It depends on the situation. Usually I use freights to build SS's and then I would use 6 freights (usually I have lots of them sitting around) in the 20 production city. However, in some cases u have a 40 sheild unit that you can dispand and then I would use 5 freigths in the 50 production city, dispand the unit and then use another 6 freights in the 20 production city, :lol:
     
  3. Lucky

    Lucky Game- and Quizmaster

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    Hmm, I have no idea where I left off, but it seems like I wrote the story almost to the end.

    Well, anyway, I played the rest all day today, was finished at 11:57pm and submitted at midnight, local time. Thanks for the time zones, otherwise this might have been very close. :eek:

    So as I expected, the finish date isn´t anywhere near where it should be, but global colonization made up for that, at least partly. Maximum engineer count was something like 360, but there were still not enough to cultivate the whole world in time. :o
    All in all a nice GOTM score but not great, it could have been much better. The late game was very long but worth it. The time I invested surely paid off, it made up for the slow start, at least partly.
    The only thing I hate in late game, when the SS nears it´s landing on AC, is the increasing amount of pollution. I got about 15 polluted tiles in the last few years per turn, even though the higher producing cities had mass transit or more, and the others only had 1 or 2 pollution symbols. :mad:
    My engineers could handle this easily but the other mistake was my timing in the end. I still had about 200 engineers working around the world, would have been 400 more points, but due to the constraints of real time I didn´t feel like going through such a cycle again.

    It´s really beginning to annoy me, the always shorter days (at least it seems like that). I just barely finished the Civ3 GOTM (1 hour before midnight at the deadline) and again with this GOTM. But the Deity Civ3 game was absolutely worth the trouble, the greatest Civ3 game I played so far.
    This Civ2 GOTM was rather tedious, we need some more excitement, maybe the huts will help that a little, but we could do so much more!
    :D
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I discovered this site in early May and decided to try GOTM 16. My life suffered a lot but I did finish and submitted a few hours ago. I have enjoyed reading all the logs and strategy discussions.

    I will probably try OCC for GOTM 17. I have never played OCC before but have read the references on this forum.

    I compared the posted logs to my saved games and was shocked to see that the posters here had typically 3-4 times as many cities and units as I did early on. For example at 1 AD I had only 7 cities. Gary Nemo reported 12, el_kalkylus 29, and Smash 44. (My cities tend to be larger so populationwise I am not that much lower but still lower.) I tend to avoid conflict in early game and hence do not expand aggressively. (I should try aggressive growth some time.)

    In this game I had cease fire with Zulus and celts. I hardly had contact with the other 4 civs. Zulus had bad luck with Barbarians and were weak. I took their remaining 2 cities around 500AD. At about the same time I entered into an alliance with Celts. Meanwhile I expanded into the unihabited island east of Perspolis. I kept looking for and settling empty land and only fought naval warfare with the other civs and only when they started it.

    By 1890s I was researching the last tech and were significantly ahead of the other civs. At this point they had all turned against me. I switched to Fundementalism in 1894 (right after discovering the last tech) and started attacking the Spanish. I was going to leave the Celts for last since I was heavily trading with their remaining 4 cities but they stole advanced flight which directly leads to nukes. I hate getting nuked; it is so messy. So I had to fight them alongside the Spanish. My veteran Stealth fighters quickly carried the day when others barely had flight. The Spanish fell in 1905 and Celts in 1912. Greeks who were allied with Spanish have been fighting me all along. I took them on next and finished them off in 1917. The French were next and were gone by 1924. By 1926 the Sioux were down to 1 city and my fundamentalist government had a treasury of 32K despite generous spending.

    I switched back to democracy in 1927. I concentrated work on the space ship and infrastructure. I launched the space ship in 1976 simply because I had to finish by the deadline. It arrived in 1987. In 1986 I had 100 cities with a total population of 235M and 72 future techs.
     
  5. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    AD 1500 Day55 2100 (449) 097.48/1480g/1567b/0903MT. (Reset to 70T/0S/40L). Hoover next turn. Total Change of plan. Buy SEs, eng game soon.


    AD 1510 Day56 HOOVER DAM; Genetic Eng; S-Machine Tools. 29 new SEs built last turn. 0 PIs in empire now! But no factories either. Fund 4 facts; IPRB lots of freight. Build some wonders and kill Siuox. Freight paying Sci bill. 35 Frieght in Production, most next turn. No other units.
    AD 1520 Day57 Machine Tools; S-Refining. Cure For Cancer Next Turn. PIs=80T now. H06 is 1st 50s+ city. Revolt-SlimButtes(Barbs, 208g)(Had a Dragoon, and making Cavalry, in disorder). Gift Sioux ABF. 45 freight in prod, only 7 left. Buy a few eng to join.
    AD 1530 Day58 Refining; S-Miniturization. Had 26 new freight. GL next turn, WS after that. Making, joining cities. End in about 2 turns. Shuffle some engineers.
    AD 1540 Day59 Miniturization; S-Combustion. 54 freight in prod. Capitalize some cities now. Buying improvement in 1 day now. Lots gold for now. IPRB French Lake Cruiser... crosshairs on spattering some barbs for the joy of killing. And killing some of my Engs in places, yet making a few for remote city joins. 52 freight in prod, 19 left. Freight is moving, but not really optimized.
    AD 1550 Day60 Comb; S-Auto. Pollution skull at H06. Build last 3 wonders; use gold to top off 2. nEst day will be last, after making SHs. SH prebuild code=Walls (almost all cities in empire).
    AD 1560 Day 61 Auto; S-Communism. ORACLE; GREAT WALL; EIFFEL TOWER. New skull. East SSC hill transformed. Bad bad no no: delivered over 10 freight before setting SSC citizens to trade squares (lost xxx gold). Silly: made 2 food caravans (disband for SH). Out of freight and gold... lots of SHs still left to do. Most engineers disbanded or joined now. All freight delivered, (usually incorrectly) in last 3 turns.
    AD 1570 Day 62. 2984 148.36/3452g/2428b/1109MT. (Reset to 0T/0S/100L; shield output low for decreased skull risk & more gold). All non-NONE Engineeers now consumed. Communism; S-Mobile Warfare. United Nations available, but I'll end the game in 1570 (increase of 7332g to 8046g, growth & SHs) Just end the game by conquest now (my 1st GOTM Conquest). Revolt Sioux: 56*2-40=72g (city in anarchy). Final Civ2 Score: 3042, with 100% luxuries.

    ----------------------- AD 1570 ---------------------------

    Victory = Conquer
    Score = 3042/506 (with the Sioux city & final citizen arrangement @100% lux)

    Pop: 148.36M (Democracy)
    Tax: 0% (1348g, cost=1233g))
    Sci: 0% (3b, ---Turns) (Advs cost about 3*531=1593b)
    Lux: 100% (cities in WLTP & maxed happy dudes; score=3040)
    Prod: 1059MT (0020T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
    Cities: 98 (not incl. Sioux)
    Wonders: 17 (Ancient: all; Ren: all; Ind: all; Mod: WS, HD, CC)

    ENEMY:
    Sioux: 1 city (size 1), Republic... Extict by revolt.
    All other AIs are extinct.

    FORCES (Many are NONEs):
    4 Engineers
    66 Riflemen
    22 Cavalry
    2 Destroyers
    1 Cruiser
    9 Transports
    15 Dips (before Sioux Revolt)
    0 Freight


    Firsts for me in a GOTM (I've played 4 GOTMs before this, I think):

    - Did not explore the whole world
    - Came no where near a high population total
    - Huge areas went unsettled
    - Many many scrawny cities (last minute dumps for Engineers)
    - Tremendous number of content, not happy, citizens due to smallish cities (need them in the 30's)
    - Had no Size 30+ cities
    - Had no 80+ shield cities
    - Did not exceed 100 cities
    - SSC never reached approached theoretical potential
    - Mad massively undeveloped terrain
    - Never possessed even 150 engineers
    - Delivered lots fo freight with no regard to cargo type (e.g., no demands)
    - Had no airfields
    - Had no Naval battles (with AIs)
    - Did not finish the Tech Tree (not even Flight/Mobile Warfare)
    - Superhighways not done
    - No 1,000g Freight, much less a 2,000 or 3,000g delivery
    - Many cities with incomplete trade routes
    - Had the Lighthouse while it was still in effect
    - Lost the Pyramids race (was working on Celts, heheee..)
    - Obsoleted 3 wonders (GL, GW, Oracle)
    - Did not have/build all wonders
    - AI never reached Navigation (without my gifting it to them).
    - Never built an Airport (a favorite improvement)
    - Personal record for minimal GOTM play time (despite logging!)
    - And last but not least: Victory by Conquest!!!

    The game was fast and fun. The log might help some people see how/when/why lots of mid-game things are done (esp. as it related to other posts/thoughts by me and others). The map size, civs, barbs, etc. were very good for a relatively short GOTM (e.g., not getting too bogged down). Good job to TF or Matrix or Smash or whoever made it this month!

    PS, And good luck to all this month: there's plenty of "headroom" for Lucky, Smash, Chofritz, noughmaster, Sulla, and all you other high scorers!! ;)
     
  6. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    Here are the usual screenshots:









    PS, Apologies for a measly game (I'm sure the other high scorers will shed crocodile tears :lol: ), but I've been catching up on Forums and making a detailed log more than GOTMing. :crazyeye: .... :)

    :cool:
     
  7. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

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    Ali Ardavan,
    When a Settler is built, it costs one population, one productive square. When it forms a city, two new squares begin producing. I generally pack cities, good for defense and quick production at the small size. I plan a checkerboard, one large, one small, one large, although the best players demonstrate that this is not optimal for maximum population. I like to feel productive & safe.

    I also found this site recently, searching to resolve my disappointment with the severe corruption of Civ3. Instead I found more to learn about Civ2. And you?
     
  8. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    by LordValuna:

    by Old n Slow:

    With the caveat that is implicit in all my posts, my opinion is to skip most libraries and almost never build Universities. At least until very very late game, when a high Slider Science percentage is set. There are many schools of thought, and the context here is for the GOTMs, where there is a speed of finish consideration.
    (this following is for all that are interested, not just Old n Slow)

    The reason for this is that I often spend many mid game turns with absolutely zero allocated science. Since I actually "build" almost nothing from Republic/Democracy onwards, gold is a paramount concern. Raise it and spend it on cheap items.... e.g., improvements and PRB/IPRBs of units (esp. engineers and caravans/freight). In mid game, I simply go for a good shield multiple (10 is a good one).

    In this GOTM, I had 1 Univerisity (SSC), and probably less than 10 libraries. The Library is one of the last improvements I build, and for those that follow my thoughts on PRB/IPRBs, you will find that late game cities can usually be made to produce about 44 or more shields with a Factory and Hoover dam. This is a shild multiple of 40... a holy grail. If you keep the University unbuilt, get this: You can speed up the development of your city and save gold. Here is why. A univerisity is a 160s imp. How much does the Recycling Center, Superhighways, and SDI cost? 200s. Instead of waiting 5 game turns to produce a 200s imp, try this: Set University (after you build Library, of course). Let the 40, 41, 44 or whatever shields appear in the Prod Box. This takes one turn. Then buy the University. Now swithc to the 200s item, and you have saved 3 turns... this gives you the use of the item for 3 more turns, plus speeds up all subesquent city production. In non-GOTM games, you wanna whooop up on the AI... and for me, it is most fun in modern combat, so I want those cities done with their basic late game improvements ASAP... the big ticket items like nukes, BBs, AEGIS, etc. can have expensive shiled multiples.... and I really hate to IPRB more than one row (25g) at a time... better to send 20g per row and rush the improvements, not SS parts (freght notwithstanding), BBs, etc.

    A great PRB is using the Sewer or Bank (120s) to get a 160s item (like Airports, Stock Exchanges, etc.). But often, a city has both these, esp. if it is not a fast-burner. So 30s, plus a palace/colosseum buy makes a nice PRB.

    Last point. In the final years, everything is going at hyper speed... you want most cities to churn out new improvements every day in many cases. There is a "fixed" penalty cost for doing this, above the expected 2g per shield you pay for rushing an improvement. For instance, you found a city and want it to have a harbor on the next turn. You have to start the buy with an empty Prod Box, and presuming you don't disband something to get the Prod Box "started" with some shields, consider the most inexpensive way to buy the harbor. Or any improvement, from scratch. You will find that there is "only" a fixed ___ g "penalty". I'll leave the blank unfilled, for those that might want to discover it on their own.

    So late game gold flow can really help...

    :)
     
  9. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    the Duke of Marlborough:

    The Duke is right on! A 20-shield city is best, even if the freight/wonder/SS part technique is not used. That is, buy an obsolete 300s wonder, like the Great Library or Oracle that often becomes obsolete before anyone can build it, whtn switch to the 320s module.

    Likewise, for a 80s SS Structural, a 30s city is excellent (Choose a wonder, use a freight to help "build" teh wonder, switch production to the SS Structural, and in one turn you have a completed part). For one turn SS Componenets, a measly 10s works great with 3 freight (150s plus the city's 10s).

    Naturally, this means you need to pre-build Freight. OCC-ers know the mathematics of this very well ;).

    Its sort of cool to build a full SS in one turn (with a large Empire and lots of freight), BTW.

    You have an excellent memory sir!

    Excellent thoughts on adjusting the multiples by using disbandments! Disbanding certain units that you typically get after Leonardo's expires is a good food for people's thoughts... esp in Democracy where there is gunna be shield support for an obolete unit. Most of my obsolete captured units are Airlifted or RR'd to a city producing Armor, Stealth Fighters, or Howies to keep a fast flow of combat units. I usually keep my Cavalry around till the end, however, and use it 's movement to help control partisan formation and kill land barbs so Howies reduce the Democratic AI cities. Since they usually hang around in my own games, Cavs are great for the Space Race disbandments (new cities with less than 10s production only need 2 freight and 2 Cavs for a 1T component :) ).
     
  10. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    by Lucky:

    No worries, as Matrix will normally take a slightly delayed GOTM as long as he has not finished his processing already (he's posted that in the past, so I'm just repeating what he's said before).

    I finally broke down and took a peek at the Civ 3 GOTM forum yesterday for the first time. You are not only a master of Civ 2, but of Civ 3! I saw those medals you're scooping up over there!

    Your handle should not be Lucky... it should be something like C3Master (Civ1, Civ2, Civ3, or "C-Cubed" Master".

    I have not installed my Civ3 yet (time and creakingly slow PC reasons). About how much time does it take for a "typical" Civ 3 GOTM to be played well, like last month's (be honest, don't undersell me!)?
     
  11. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    Welcome to CFC and the GOTM! I see this is your first post, and it is an excellent one! Hope to see you in more Civ 2 GOTMs.

    You doubtless know by now that there is a special element in GOTMs that is not in the normal Civ 2 scoring system... the time element. That's what spurs people on to evolve faster and faster strategies. Like you, I too always lag the early conquerors and fast-expansionists to a sort of expansionist/perfectionist middle ground.

    Wow! A mid game alliance.... I play with the hostile AI of Civ 2 MGE, and there is somewhere between zero and none chances of alliances in my games. Of course, they are all allying against me thoght :lol:....

    It was great to read the synopsis of your game! :goodjob:
     
  12. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    by GaryNemo:

    Is it the game itself (like the computer code) that is corrupted, or the the playstyles, or the players or what? I have not played Civ 3 yet, but have looked at the install issues in the tech forum, as well as taking a short look at the Civ 3 GOTM section.

    BTW, I personally really enjoy reading your posts, Gary! I think they also are of help to the guests and zero post members who read but have not yet taken the plunge ;).
    I've noticed that many well-known Civ 2 players don't play the Civ 3 GOTM very often, and assume that is because of the time demands to play the game.
     
  13. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

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    Corruption in Civ3.
    Yes, they used an Install program that causes fragmentation. It couldn't just install a patch over the current program - it needed to delete all files first. (I'm restraining myself here)

    A great feature of Civ3 is fighting for the Iron and such. But...

    The real Corruption involves production and trade. I can't recall the details, but perhaps a city 8 squares from your capital experiences a 50% corruption rate. I recall building mines, and all of the additional production was corruption. A typical city after the first dozen is producing one shield and one science.

    There are many details, of course, many solutions, but consider this. When I called the help number, before I could talk with a human about a crash I was experiencing, I had to listen to a recording extolling the benefits of building a Courthouse to reduce corruption! That was their #1 FAQ suggestion.

    Just trying to answer your question. With all of the answers you provide, you are certainly entitled to a question! I don't want to subvert this Civ2 gotm forum, nor hear all of the solutions. I'm sorry I wasn't clear with my first comment. I do believe, however, that the surge in Civ2 popularity is caused by Civ3 disappointment.
     
  14. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Traded a tech with the Celts early, and next thing I know I'am at TOTAL WAR with them till 1500's.
    Anyways, I had a big blunder against them, wondered if anyone had a worst disaster.
    I too am very impressed with the Alliance with the Celts. I'm also playing with MGE.

    My Blunder
    :rolleyes:
    Celts have GL in Cardiff. behinf City Walls and are Democrats in 1500
    I have Cardiff completely surrounded , including a Musket on the shield square behind.
    Thus Cardiff has one production and one defensive unit. I had destroyed a Crusader from an outside city in the city radius.
    So I'm all set to capture when the Blunder

    :rolleyes:

    In my staging area, There was a Celt settler locked in ZOC (zone of control) adjecent to a city.
    I move the cities garrison unit (distracted by chasing after BARB leader loot) and the settler walks into my OPEN CITY
    and lifts the siege of CARDIFF.
    Where are the nukes when you need them??:nuke:
     
  15. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Chieftain

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    Lost two new neighboring cities to Barbs nobudy nearby to buy them off.:o
     
  16. Lucky

    Lucky Game- and Quizmaster

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    Thanks, I´m trying my very best! :yeah:
    Well, let´s see.
    IIRC, my last GOTM on Deity level lasted till 1410AD. It took about 2 weeks, with around 2-3 hours per day, maybe more. But this game was intensively played. :eek:
    I played 2 games almost till the year limit so far (2025, 2050AD). Those took about the same time as the Deity game above.

    I have to say that playing both GOTMs and still doing something else in your free time (like me, playing online/forum chess, starcraft tourney and general forum posts) it can get difficult to fins enough time. As I wrote somewhere, both GOTMs were only submitted very shortly before the deadline.
    But it is possible to do!
    :D
     
  17. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Very interesting observation. Thanks.
    I was an avid Civ1 player. By the time Civ2 was out, I was out of school and did not have as much time for playing. I have played no more than a dozen Civ2 games. I have been reading a lot about Civ3 and know that the high rate of corruption is the number one complaint of most players. I purchased Civ3 in May but I have only had time to dabble in it so far.
    My version of Civ2 is single player on Macintosh.
     
  18. duke o' york

    duke o' york It don't mean a thing....

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    I'm pretty certain that it is impossible for human non-combat units to take cities in the same way that it is impossible for air and sea units to (save the helicopter). I would not be at all surprised if this did not apply to the AI though.
    That was bad luck with the enemy settler, but I can't understand how their settler managed to be in your territory. You were clearly planing to wipe out the Celts but didn't bother to eliminate an escaping settler! The AI settlers are supported if you bribe a city but if you capture it then they can often go off and found another city regardless. It is important to massacre their settlers (or bribe them ;)) to prevent this happening.
     
  19. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    My foolish plan was to tie down as much of the Celts resources as possible down. I was sitting on alot of shield squares. {added AND it was late in the night :crazyeye: } He was in REP or DEM so thats a shield and 2 food per turn tied up.
    I had used up a DIP to look at Cardiff so I knew the settler wasnt from there, so was hoping to capture it with its home city.
    Like all all plans did not succed when encountering opposition:egypt:

    {added} quote : I'm pretty certain that it is impossible for human non-combat units to take cities in the same way that it is impossible for air and sea units to (save the helicopter).
    I checked and our settlers can do this too, hopefully explorers can do also, that might be usefull{/end add}:cool:
     
  20. starlifter

    starlifter Chieftain

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    The confusion is in termonology. "non combat" does not mean a unit can't fight.

    The Settler and Engineer (and Explorer) can all take an city. The S & E have attacks of zero, but they are special units which are allowed to do everything bu initiate combat, and if a city is not occupied, there is no combat to occupy it. Just walk right in.

    The freight will not do it because if you try to occupy a city, the special unit code says "deliver your trade" It is funny to make your own unit with an attack of 20, defense of 20, but call it trade! The AI will send these to "attack" your city, but instead just establish trade routes!!

    Likewise, the spy and dip are special units, and have an attack of 0 and defense of 0. Try to occupy an enemy city, and you get the spy menu, not conquest.

    So the AI did the right thing.... LordValuna left the city open, and the AI had an occupying unit (settler), which moved in and took the city! Totally legal to do :).
     

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