GOTM 163 Spoiler

Inkerman

Engineer
Civ2 GOTM Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
447
Location
London
I see from the game thread that both catalin72 and Blasph23 are playing, welcome! It seems that in recent years the February game often gets a bit more interest. Maybe it's a good time of year for people to have the time that Civ2 needs.

I will do as we usually do and post some remarks about what happened in my game in the early turns. Perhaps in a little bit more detail than usual. Maybe there is something that is interesting to discuss? I try for something reasonable, but often there are better approaches.

Ali helps by doing initial map analysis. Using only the information provided before the start we learn that are close to a 4-special site, on the ocean. This is good for the OCC that Ali says he is likely to play.

We can't know about our own continent though, as "black clicking" is not helpful when you are on land mass number 1.

To my own game: I decided not to do OCC, as I had done that in the previous game.

4000- Pop hut on mountain: horse.
The most likely outcome of an early pop is a unit and this is fine.
I move the horse west. I know from the map analysis there may be another hut nearby. And indeed one is revealed by the move.
3950- Hut:50g. Money is always welcome, but especially at the start.
Now the question is where to settle?
I could choose the 4-special trees.
I could follow the horse which is now on a good grassland canal site with whales.
The plains one square west of the mountain is possible - it gets whales, and a special under grass.
The grassland squares one or two north are possible - both have two specials.
Of these two I would choose the unshielded as it is better for future irrigation (and it doesn't "waste" the shield.)
The plains and wheat are also possible, although note it is an internal lake and not the ocean that they touch.
I decide the quickest location with ocean access comes first.
Settler moves to plains to west
3900- Found Beijing (22,18). Start on CoL.
3850-
3800-
3750- Hut:50g.
3700-
3650- Disc CoL -> CB. No purple; often this is seen as making a spaceship game less attractive.
3600-
3550-
3500-

3450- Size-1 settler.
3400-
3350-
3300- Beijing to size 2. Found Shanghai (25,15).
3250- Disc CB -> MM. (Mon n/a).
3200-
3150- Beijing makes settlers.
3100-
3050-
3000- Shanghai makes warriors. Found Guangzhou (17,19) - the canal site.

Cities:3, Pop:3, Gold:45, Techs:4. Despotism.
1 warrior,1 horse.
 
I have the whole log ready but I will post a fraction of it only:

Popped the mountain hut - horsemen.
Moved the settler to 23, 17 and started clearing the forest to buid a city on the tile.
My horsemen multiplied in another hut and then also a NONE chariot was obtained.
Started researching CoL, my horsmen found CB in another hut.
-3600 - three NONE units, that's pretty nice and coupled with the size of the map, I decided to conquer all. We'll find out if it's early or not.
-3150 - CoL -> monarchy is hidden :/ I picked MM instead.
-3000 - I ran out of hut luck - one was empty, another gave 25 gold, too late to RB settler in size one Beijing, the city has grown a few turns before. Maybe I should have left that forest untouched.
-2800 - Nomads in another hut :) this will become a forward base living off the whale close by.
-2750 - Shanghai founded.
-2700 - MM discovered -> Monarchy.
-2600 - Canton founded with the nomad.
-2550 - Advanced tribe in a hut, Nanking.
-2350 - Monarchy -> Currency. Revolution.
-2300 - Tsingtao founded.
-2250 - New government enacted, discoveries every 5 turns. Beijing started constructing Colossus which will be promptly changed to Marco as soon as I get trade.
-2150 - A hut yields a NONE chariot not far away from my nearest city. We are not alone.
-2050 - Egyptians moved their capital to Helio...
-2000 - Currency discovered, trade is hidden. Picked HR instead. Another horsemen unit from hut, also NONE.
-1950 - Xinjian founded.
-1750 - HB discovered -> Trade. Mysticism from a hut.
-1650 - Chengdu founded next to a whale.
-1600 - Met Romans. Initially neutral, they became enthusiastic after gifting monarchy and MM but still didn't trade maps. Had to also gift them mysticism and then traded maps.
They have two cities size 2, 3 chariots, phalanx, archers and a settler, not counting city defenders.
Unfortunately Rome is on a river so it will probably take a bit more love to capture once I get down to it.
Polyteism in a hut.
- 1450 - Hangchow founded.
- 1400 - Trade -> WC. Tientsin founded. Switched Beijing to produce Marco.
- 1300 - Tatung becomes another whaling village.
- 1200 - Macao founded.
- 1100 - Anyang founded.
- 1050 - WC -> Writing.
- 1000 - Rushed two vans close to the capital to complete the last 100 shields of Marco.

What happens next depends on the outcome of map trading once Marco is built, so I had no tangible plans at this point - generally expand and explore.
I didn't maintain a unit count or population count but most cities are size 1-2 and only settlers have been built.
Military units will start being built after the construction of Sun Tzu.
 
Hi all.My game will be again a 'simple' game,late victory,etc,like Mercurios I like much to change the terrain,more cities,a big score normally,a bad score GOTM.With this GOTM I started to make notices,but I have notices just 940 AD-1848 AD.
I'm surprised for the results of the huts in the Blasph game,my huts nothing special,a mounted unit the first hut I remember.Or AI took more huts,but AI don't take huts in the early game.

My capital Beijing,(25,17),spices,etc.The second city,Shanghai(19,19),whales.

940 AD

Wonders:Colossus,Great Library,Sun Tzu,Michelangelo.
War with Romans and English,Rome captured,civil war,new AI in civil war Indians,war with they.
AI Wonders:Hanging Gardens Egyptians,Marco Polo and Pyramids Romans,both in Veii ,the 'hot ' target..

1010 AD-1150 AD
Cease fire with Romans,subvert Veii,now Marco Polo,Vikings blue AI,in peace with Egyptians,despotism.Romans,Indians and Egyptians republics,English despotism.
1150 AD,Invention,start Leonardo.
1210 AD,contact with Egyptians,1220 AD Egyptians sneak attack..
1260 AD-Democracy,start Statue.
1300 AD -revolution,fundamentalism.
1300 AD-1545 AD,more Romans and Indians cities captured with revolts.
1510 AD-Romans capital Neapolis captured,city wall destroyed with 5 diplomats...
1545 AD-Romans destroyed,last city Lugdunum revolt,2 troops and a settler.
Russian restarts in white,peace with they.
1565 AD - I saw the barbarian city Pisa,revolt, 312 g,other troops bribed.
1580 AD-Indians destroyed,last city Hispalis subvert,330 or 2,660 gold,temple,market,colosseum,city wall,2 troops.
1585 AD-Sioux restarts.
1590 AD-Vikings,tribute demanded,war,more revolts and bribes.
1625 AD-Vikings destroyed,French restarts in blue.

Stats at 1750 AD

Chinese: 47 cities,40 techs,fundamentalism,reputation excellent,research Conscription,discoveries every 7 turns.
Wonders: Pyramids,Colossus,Lighthouse,Great Library,Oracle,Sun Tzu,Leonardo,King Richard's Crusade,Marco Polo,Michelangelo,Magellan,Leonardo,Adam Smith,Statue of Liberty
Units:52 engi,91 muske,23 offensive units,18 caravels,5 caravans,7 diplomats,2 explorers.
Russians-just Moscow,despotism,23 techs,peace
French-just Paris,republic,28 techs,peace
Egyptians-6 cities,2 wonders(Hanging and Great Wall),republic,30 techs,war
English-6 cities,a wonder(Copernicus),despotism,19 techs,war
Mongols-just Karakorum,despotism,21 techs,no treaty.
 
Blasph23 and catalin72,

Thankyou both for posting.

I recognise the appeal of catalin's "late victory" game - 52 engineers and 18 caravels at the 1750 checkpoint sound lots of fun. But as he writes, it is not the usual style of most of the players here, and we may not have so much to say, at least not yet.

But I expect someone will say they do not care very much for the Great Library, oops, I've just done that haven't I?

Blasph's game seems to me to be the sort of style more familiar to the forum correspondents. Marco Polo (often MPE) is often the first wonder, whether players are conquest or spaceship minded. It too was my choice here. And Blasph, by starting a wonder early, gets it early - 975BC.

So the choice of improving the 4-special site before settling, and accumulating a NON army and popping huts for money and techs (and a nomad and advanced tribe) seems to have produced a quite satisfactory outcome. I am quite a fan of the popping as many huts as possible tactic, and I think now that the outcome was likely to be quite good but it did not occur to me to delay founding Beijing.

I have decided it will be conquest for me, and I won't be waiting for Sun Tzu. I do play early conquest with Sun Tzu (and knights) - "recently" in last February's GotM152 - but on this occasion with the smaller map I'll be happy to start attacking with elephants.
 
Welcome Blasph! We are also happy to see new faces around here.

I chose OCC this time, partly beacause I just had a long game in the last Gotm, partly because Ali already indicated he would do the same, so we can have a small side-competition for the two of us.
Playing king level, I chose to aim for republic instead of monarchy. Picking up currency in a hut meant I had to research an off-path tech, but that tech happened to be trade, so it was not that bad.


-4000 Pop hut: Archer
-3900 Peking founded, begin settler; pop hut, hoping for nomad: Get 100g. This will speed up the settler
-3850 Research laws
-3650 Laws->Writing
-3450 S1-settler built, irrigates city site, begin barracks
-3400 Weeds in hut
-3200 Currency from hut
-2900 Writing->Trade, switch to library

-2300 Barb horse from hut
(Archer survives and turns vet)
-2150 Trade->Literacy; library built
-1650 Literacy->Republic
-1250 Horse from hut @ 49,7; supported
-1100 Vikings destroyed by Egypt
-1050 Republic(revolt & est.)->Banking, cut down science until Marco Polo is done

Stats at 975BC:
city size: 3; techs: 8; gov: Rep; gold: 26; city buildings: Library
trade routes: 0; units: 1 settler, 2 archers, 1 horse, 2 vans

-950 Nomads from hut, but it will take some time to get them home from 58,12
-900 Settler re-settles, making Peking size 4
-875 None-horse @ 23,35
-800 Barbs at 62,20
(Archer dies)
-750 Marco Polo completed, peace, mapmaking, maps from England; peace, maps from Rome, peace, maps, cb from Egypt
peace, maps from re-spawned French, and Paris (43,9) is blocking my nomad's way home! Hail them again, they offer alliance, YES!
-625 None-archer near Rome
-600 25g from hut
-525 Banking->Myst.; get Myst. from Egypt
-500 Research Philo

Stats at 500BC:
city size: 5; techs: 12; gov: Rep; gold: 33; city buildings: Library; Marco Polo
trade routes: 0; units: 1 settler, 2 archers, 2 horse, 1 vans
 
Blasph23 and catalin72,

Thankyou both for posting.

I recognise the appeal of catalin's "late victory" game - 52 engineers and 18 caravels at the 1750 checkpoint sound lots of fun. But as he writes, it is not the usual style of most of the players here, and we may not have so much to say, at least not yet.

But I expect someone will say they do not care very much for the Great Library, oops, I've just done that haven't I?

Blasph's game seems to me to be the sort of style more familiar to the forum correspondents. Marco Polo (often MPE) is often the first wonder, whether players are conquest or spaceship minded. It too was my choice here. And Blasph, by starting a wonder early, gets it early - 975BC.

So the choice of improving the 4-special site before settling, and accumulating a NON army and popping huts for money and techs (and a nomad and advanced tribe) seems to have produced a quite satisfactory outcome. I am quite a fan of the popping as many huts as possible tactic, and I think now that the outcome was likely to be quite good but it did not occur to me to delay founding Beijing.

I have decided it will be conquest for me, and I won't be waiting for Sun Tzu. I do play early conquest with Sun Tzu (and knights) - "recently" in last February's GotM152 - but on this occasion with the smaller map I'll be happy to start attacking with elephants.

Thanks for your words:).Yes,is very hard for me to 'set' my mouse... to carry more mounted units,diplomats etc in ships or in the field early in the game,to be careful,no AI diplomats inciting revolt in the new cities captured,etc,etc.In addition,I have more theoretical lacks,just recently I saw about Oedo year,tech gifting,need more time to read in this forum.Maybe in a day I will be a fan/expert of this style..
Good luck all !
 
2950-
2900- Discover MM -> Mon. Hut: 50g. Hut: Horse(Shanghai).
2850-
2800- Hut: Horse(NON).
Unfortunately it was the existing NON horse that found it, so I don't know who's near.
2750- Hut: AT Nanking (29,37).
2700-
2650-
2600- Beijing builds settlers.
2550-
2500- Found Tsingtao (21,23).

2450- Discover Mon -> HBR. Become Monarchy.
2400- Hut: Barbs. NON horse lost.
2350-
2300-
2250-
2200- Discover HBR -> Poly.
2150- Find Rome, make peace, accept 50g tribute. They have WC.
We are supreme. Hut: 25g.
2100-
2050-

Stats at 2000-
Cities:5, Pop:8, Gold:208, Techs:7. Monarchy. Supreme and spotless.
3 settlers, 1 warrior, 2 phalanx, 2 horse, 1 trireme.
 
As indicated before I decided to play OCC.

Date Produced Tech achieved Other notables

-4000 None Horseman from hut.
-3950 None Archer from hut.
-3900 Beijing founded on forest.
Roman and Egyptian are in
-3800 Empty hut. Vikings and English are in
-3400 Size 1 Settler Code of Laws Research goal is Republic.
-3300 Nomad from hut. This is fantastic
-2850 Writing
-2650 Beijing is size 2
-2600 Supported settler joins. Beijing is size 3
-2450 100g from hut.
-2400 Literacy
-2000 Republic T2L2S6

Status at -2000
City Size: 3 Government: Despotism Gold: 168 Techs: 6 Trade routes: 0
Structures:
Wonders:
Units: 1 None settler, 1 None Archer, 1 None Horseman
Goals: Republic in -1850; Marco and Colossus
Roman: No contact
Viking: No contact
Egyptian: No contact
English: No contact

-1950 Beijing is size 4. 50g from hut.
-1900 Revolution
-1850 Republic established. Silk mined from grass.
T0L4S6
-1800 Beijing celebrates
-1750 Beijing is size 5
-1700 Beijing is size 6. T0L5S5
-1650 Beijing is size 7. T4L4S2
-1600 Mapmaking T0L4S6
-1350 Colossus Currency T1L3S6
-1150 Warrior Code from hut
-1100 Marketplace T4L2S4
-1000 Trade T8L2S0

Status at -1000
City Size: 7 Government: Republic Gold: 180 Techs: 10 Trade routes: 0
Structures: Marketplace
Wonders: Colossus
Units: 1 None settler, 1 None Archer, 1 None Horseman
Goals: Marco
Roman: No contact
Viking: No contact
Egyptian: No contact
English: No contact

-0975 Caravan
-0925 Caravan Beijing is size 8
Romans start Marco! This is so unusual
-0900 Caravan
-0775 Marco I am Supreme. T0L2S8
Will spend my money before first contacts
-0750 Caravan
-0725 Caravan Power down to Mighty
-0700 Power down to Strong. T4L2S4
Literacy, Trade, Alphabet, Republic, Mapmaking -> Egyptian (3) -> peace, Mysticism, maps, no alliance
Bronze, Republic, Writing -> English (5) -> peace, Math, Seafaring, maps, cut off
Republic -> Viking (2) -> peace, maps, no alliance
Literacy, Republic, Warrior Code, Writing, Mapmaking -> Roman (6) -> peace, maps, no alliance
-0625 Library T6L2S2
-0600 T8L2S0
-0575 Trireme Ship heads to England with 2 vans
-0525 Caravan

Status at -0500
City Size: 8 Government: Republic Gold: 119 Techs: 13 Trade routes: 0
Structures: Marketplace, Library
Wonders: Colossus, Marco
Units: 1 None settler, 1 None Archer, 1 None Horseman, 1 Trireme, 3 vans
Goals: Construction, Shakespeare, Sanitation, trade routes
Romans: 8 cities, 12 techs
Viking: 2 cities, 8 techs
Egyptian: 3 cities, 11 techs
English: 4 cities, 11 techs

-0475 Explorer
-0450 Beijing fails to grow due to lack of Aqueduct
-0425 Caravan Writing, Seafaring->Egyptian->
Banking, Masonry. T4L2S4
-0375 Caravan Construction Wine to London for 203 makes the first route
Tech cost is 195! T7L2S1
-0350 Astronomy Beads to London for 202 makes the 2nd route
T4L2S4
-0325 Philosophy T2L2S6
University
-0300 Aqueduct
-0275 Caravan
-0250 Caravan 3 barbarian horsemen from hut
My horseman kills one
-0225 Caravan Barbarians kill my None horseman
-0200 Caravan
-0100 Medicine Banking -> English -> Horseback riding
Navigation from hut
-0075 Shakespeare Beijing celebrates
-0050 Beijing is size 9
-0025 Beijing is size 10
Cloth to York for 322 makes the third route
+0001 Caravan Theory of Gravity Beijing is size 11
Construction -> Roman -> Iron Working

Status at +0001
City Size: 11 Government: Republic Gold: 377 Techs: 24 Trade routes: 3
Structures: Marketplace, Library, Aqueduct
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Shakespeare
Units: 1 None settler, 1 None Archer, 1 Trireme, 2 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: Sanitation, Copernicus
Romans: 8 cities, 18 techs
Viking: 2 cities, 12 techs
Egyptian: 4 cities, 17 techs
English: 5 cities, 16 techs
 
I decided to make my city in the forest at the center of the 4 specials. But unlike Blasph23, I built the city immediately and waited for the size 1 settler to irrigate.
I actually made 2 size 1 settlers and irrigated the wheat before going off to found other cities.
I was only able to pop 2 huts before founding Beijing, both were Archers, which were nice, but horse/chariot would have been better. Pottery in -2750 was not a welcome discovery. Weeds in -2600 was also bad.



-4000 Hut -> Archer
-3950 Move settler to Forest, Archer West toward 2nd hut
-3900 Hut -> Archer, move south revealing 3rd Whale, Beijing founded in forest, size 1 in 10 turns
-3850 start Code of Laws
-3650 Hut -> 25
-3400 CoL -> Ceremonial Burial (18), Size 1 Settler (starts irrigating Beijing)
-3200 Forest changed to Plains in Beijing

stats at -3000:
pop.: .01; cities: 1; techs: 3, gov: Despotism, gold: 43; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 2 Archer
wonders: None

Romans: No Contact
Vikings: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
English: No Contact


-2850 CB -> Currency (27)
-2800 Size 1 #2
-2750 worker to irrigated Wheat, Hut -> Pottery (36)
-2600 Hut -> weeds
-2450 Find Rome (4) at (36,44), They offer Masonry for Pottery, I decline, Peace, 50 Tribute, I am moderate
-2400 Shanghai founded (21,23)
-2350 Canton founded (15,19)
-2250 RB Shanghai 1sh
-2200 Currency -> Monarchy (50), Beijing Settler, RB Canton 1sh
-2100 Veii discovered, RB Shanghai 1sh
-2050 RB Canton 1sh
-2000 Nanking founded (30,18), worker in Beijing from Wheat to Spice for science

stats at -2000:
pop.: .06; cities: 4; techs: 6, gov: Despotism, gold: 138; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Archer
wonders: None

Romans: No Embassy
Vikings: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
English: No Contact


-1900 worker back to Wheat, RB Beijing 2sh
-1850 Monarchy -> Writing (60), REVOLUTION, Monarchy established, RB Nanking 1sh
-1800 Shanghai Settler
-1750 Canton Settler
-1650 Trade with Romans Pottery -> Writing, 50 Tribute, start Trade (77), now Mighty, RB Shanghai 1sh (change to Diplomat)
-1600 Tsingtao founded (25,25), RB Shanghai 7sh+10sh
-1550 Shanghai Diplomat
-1500 Trade -> Map Making (88), Hut -> HBR (108)
-1450 RB Canton 2sh, Shanghai 4sh, Tsingtao 4sh, Beijing 2sh
-1400 Archer survives Roman Sneak Attack, Nanking Settler, Xinjian founded (7,19), kill Roman Warrior
-1350 100K, Hut -> 1 Barb Horse, RB Shanghai 2sh
-1300 Archer survives Horse Attack, Hut -> 25, RB Tsingtao 2sh, Hut -> Horse, Chengdu founded (34,14), RB Xinjian 2sh
-1150 Map Making -> Mysticism (150)
-1100 Shanghai Settler, RB Nanking 2sh
-1050 200K, Hut -> Archer (NON), RB Nanking 6sh
-1000 Canton Food, Beijing Settler, RB Shanghai 2sh, Chengdu 2sh

stats at -1000:
pop.: .19; cities: 7; techs: 11, gov: Monarchy, gold: 250; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 3 Settler, 1 Warrior, 3 Archer, 1 Horse, 1 Diplomat, 1 Caravan
wonders: None

Romans: No Embassy
Vikings: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
English: No Contact
 
'-1850 Republic established. Silk mined from grass.'
Hi Ali,where is Beijing,where is silk ;)? Was a luck silk or exists a method to find ?
 
Special resources appear in a pattern. If you look carefully, you will notice the pattern.
Sometimes a special will occur on grassland and is thus invisible. mining it will produce either silk or pheasant. Terraforming it into hills will either reveal coal or grapes.
The type of special is also determined by the pattern so after a bit of analysis, you can find every hidden special and unveil them.
 
Special resources appear in a pattern. If you look carefully, you will notice the pattern.
Sometimes a special will occur on grassland and is thus invisible. mining it will produce either silk or pheasant. Terraforming it into hills will either reveal coal or grapes.
The type of special is also determined by the pattern so after a bit of analysis, you can find every hidden special and unveil them.

I don't understand,what is the pattern ? I writed in a post about new resources in the WW II map,silk in river near Berlin(grassland),coal near Warshaw (grassland),coal near Orsk(grassland),etc.I writed the resources used in my games after mining and transforming.
 
Open map editor and you will see.
All those whales and fish change into different specials depending on type of terrain but their locations on the map are fixed.
Their relative positions don't change - there are never two specials next to each other right? This pattern can be seen when using map editor because there is only ocean.
Now try to measure where one special occurs and where others around it appear - they are usually 2 tiles away horizontally and 1 tile away vertically.
This is one of the methods used to determine where the specials are hidden over grassland.
 
I started a map in editor 50/60,with seed 14,but near the starting coordinates not 4 resources.Must change some numbers ? Tile with silk after mining is in (22,20),in my map nothing in that tile.
 
Hi catalin,
Is it that the map editor and the game have different co-ordinate systems?
cheers, Inkerman
 
Hi catalin,
Is it that the map editor and the game have different co-ordinate systems?
cheers, Inkerman

I know,I look at a big idiot,but want a good clarification if a CFC member have time and amiability.I have read the guide for OCC by Ali,in the beginning some links with threads promised explaining about the patterns,etc,but just promised,the next discussions were with experts like Peaster,Starlifter,and more other experts.
My questions is very simple,if I make a random map,I write X and Y and the seed,an expert can say me where is a hidden resource in grassland,etc ? Ali knew that,in (20,22) is a hidden resource(silk,wheat,wine) ?
 
There is an entire thread dedicated to this subject. Look up "map analysis" as thread title. Everything is explained there.
 
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